ALDS Game 4 - HOU @ CWS - 1:07 pm CDT

[chw42]

6 minutes ago, tray said:

I think  Leury Leyenda also got a tack on xBH off Brooks Raley.

I wish Dusty used  Raley in every game. He was awful.

The fact that Leury Garcia had more XBH than the core 6 is telling. 

[tray]

and Hinch was not banned from baseball for life like Pete Rose was.

[South Side Hit Men]

 

[Balta1701]

38 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

was it ever reported what was wrong with Toews?

COVID long response issues.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/blackhawks/ct-chicago-blackhawks-jonathan-toews-20210630-6rk7hykenfa73kqxslkdkydxja-story.html?outputType=amp

[tray]

There is a difference between "top-of-rotation" starting pitchers and elite starting pitchers - guys that are capable of winning a Playoff game when it is needed.   Lynn and Gio are TOR starters but they are not good enough to beat a team like the Astros in the play-offs.

Keuchel is going to be hard to unload.

 

[Stinky Stanky]

3 minutes ago, tray said:

There is a difference between "top-of-rotation" starting pitchers and elite starting pitchers - guys that are capable of winning a Playoff game when it is needed.   Lynn and Gio are TOR starters but they are not good enough to beat a team like the Astros in the play-offs.

Keuchel is going to be hard to unload.

Eat 15 million and pass him off as a loogy.  Or have him learn the knuckler over the winter and if he can't eat the whole ball of wax.  All of this makes it near impossible to sign Rodon, of course.

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

36 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

 

Astros cheating is always relevant Steve. We have to hear about the White Sox throwing a world series over 100 years later, the Astros have to deal with their tainted trophy now.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Buehrle>Wood

[hi8is]

4 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Astros cheating is always relevant Steve. We have to here about the White Sox throwing a world series over 100 years later, the Astros have to deal with their tainted trophy now.

Eh - his point is also valid. So is yours but… yeah.

[tray]

Blackstrosd cheated with impunity. That is reason enough to suspect they continue to do it now.

Guys like Correa or Altuve could get very comfortable with a system that alerts them before a fastball is thrown.

Altuve never produced the buzzer and relay he allegedly had so he may still be using the same stuff. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by tray

[AJ'S Cousin]

Things we need to do for 2022, some serious some sarcastic:

Serious- get a second basemen who can hit!!!

Sarcastic-Teach Engel or Vaughn to play second if you can’t get one

Serious- go after Semien or Story if they are willing to play second

Sarcastic- pick up Kimbrel’s option and trade him back to the Cubs for Madrigal and Huer

Serious- Do not pickup Kimbrels option or even take a home town discount if HE wants to stay, doubt that he would stay 

Sarcastic-Bring Ozzie back as manager  LOL

Serious- Bring TLR BACK if nobody else decent is available 

Sarcastic- If TLR leaves make either Abreu or Anderson, player managers. LOL

Serious- Force Abreu during Spring Training, whether he wants to or not wear the elbow guard, if he gets 20 games in with it he’ll get used to it. Eventually somebody is going to shatter his elbow  

Sarcastic-Bring Burger up and shift Moncada back to second. NOT  

Serious- Have Burger play every game in the minors at second base or bring him to camp and he only plays second until he learns the position  

Serious- 2022 Rotation should be #1 Gio  #2 Lynne #3 Cease #4 Rodon with a home town discount or #4 Kopech #5, if no trade or signing is done Lopez, I don’t think Crochet is going to ready next year, he needs to take the Kopech route and MAYBE with pitching 2 and 3 inning stints in relief, he’ll be ready either in September or 2023

Serious- resign Garcia, he’s earned it  

Serious-Resign Tepera, he’s the new 7th inning guy

Serious-get a right fielder, a real right fielder!!! Don’t know if Sheets or Vaughn would an answer

Serious-rotate Sheets,Vaughn,Jimenez, and Abreu at DH, KEEP THE ALL HEALTHY and at the plate as much as possible  

Serious-try to trade Kuechel for anything we can get to get rid of the dollars to spend on another starter because Rodon will leave and I still don’t think Lopez is the answer as a number 5

Serious-DO NOT pick up Kimbrels option, LET HIM GO!! 

 

Serious-ONLY GO AFTER Simien or Story if they are willing to move to second base. 
 

Sarcastic- Teach Vaughn how to Second if you can’t get a real one. 
 

Sarcastic-Teach Engel how to play second base

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by AJ'S Cousin

[hi8is]

Tony has officially made the Hall of Fame List.

[NCsoxfan]

Tepera’s comments didn’t cause our top players to puke 

[hi8is]

3 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

Tepera’s comments didn’t cause our top players to puke 

?

[AJ'S Cousin]

I believe that the bullpen can be even better next year.  Crotchet pitches the 6th, and even the 5th if necessary, need to get him stretched out ASAP, Tepera, if resigned and we really need him resigned pitches the 7th.  Bummer looked like the old Bummer of 2 years ago, if so he’s the guy in the 8th and of course the Aussie closes. Ruiz would be long relief along with Marshall if we can get the 2020 Marshall back.  

Marshall, Ruiz, Crochet, Tepera, Bummer and Hendriks, we need 1 or 2 more, that’ll be decided in camp who can emerge  

Remember, this is all predicated on Bummer in spring training being the Bummer we saw in his 6 or 7 appearances down the stretch this year. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by AJ'S Cousin

[FrontierDayz]

1 hour ago, tray said:

and Hinch was not banned from baseball for life like Pete Rose was.

My guess is Hinch’s legal team told Manfred & MLB corporate counsel if you ban Hinch for life, we’ll sue, he’ll testify that the Houston scandal is the tip of the iceberg….Cora too…thus a slap on the wrist and please go away major problem…Beltran to come back at a later date….GM Luhnow…who knows..who cares…all others get a pass….Bottom line, Manfred caved..

Edited October 13, 2021 by FrontierDayz

[Balta1701]

17 minutes ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

I believe that the bullpen can be even better next year.  Crotchet pitches the 6th, and even the 5th if necessary, need to get him stretched out ASAP, Tepera, if resigned and we really need him resigned pitches the 7th.  Bummer looked like the old Bummer of 2 years ago, if so he’s the guy in the 8th and of course the Aussie closes. Ruiz would be long relief along with Marshall if we can get the 2020 Marshall back.  

Marshall, Ruiz, Crochet, Tepera, Bummer and Hendriks, we need 1 or 2 more, that’ll be decided in camp who can emerge  

Remember, this is all predicated on Bummer in spring training being the Bummer we saw in his 6 or 7 appearances down the stretch this year. 

We saw the problem with Bummer a ton in this series. If he’s getting ground balls, but defensive positioning and poor play leads to those ground balls becoming hits, then he’s going to have some games where he implodes unnecessarily.

[South Side Hit Men]

11 minutes ago, FrontierDayz said:

My guess is Hinch’s legal team told Manfred & MLB corporate counsel if you ban Hinch for life, we’ll sue, he’ll testify that the Houston scandal is the tip of the iceberg….Cora too…thus a slap on the wrist and please go away major problem…Beltran to come back at a later date….GM Luhnow…who knows..who cares…all others get a pass….Bottom line, Manfred caved..

What actually happened were at least a dozen teams did this in various forms, and the Houston scheme went all the way to ownership.

MLB would have done zero if the press didn't press the issue. Manfred issued a report whitewashing Houston ownership's involvement, suspended those they could legally get away with (management) and hoped it went away.

I expect the NHL to do the same regarding the serial child rapist the Chicago NHL Hockey Team aided and abetted under Rocky Wirtz and the Bowmans (not to mention their simultaneous backing of their racist minor league coach Bill Peters, who callied Akim Aliu the N word, and then demoted the player while Rocky and Stan stood by their man.

MLB did the same thing this season with Spidertack. They came up with a bullshit "testing plan", and only took concrete steps because they couldn't control the narrative after Joe West forced the issue in the Sox Cardinals game.

[hankchifan]

2 hours ago, pcq said:

We need a petition for a new manager. 

Fans are an important Sox stakeholder, so there should be a consultation. I venture to say that the majority of fans would want another manager.  Players are not going to publicly be against TLR in case he is back.  I myself don’t think I can take another season with TLR as manager.  There is  at least one screw up in each game.  You have to be masochistic to put up with that.

[hankchifan]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Not one homer from a righty all series

It is shame because the Sox needed to hit homers in order to win,with our station to station, no running offense , and hitting into double plays instead.  I am really pissed that we never hit and ran with Abreu at the plate leading the majors in double plays hit. TLR never adjusted.

[hankchifan]

13 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

What actually happened were at least a dozen teams did this in various forms, and the Houston scheme went all the way to ownership.

MLB would have done zero if the press didn't press the issue. Manfred issued a report whitewashing Houston ownership's involvement, suspended those they could legally get away with (management) and hoped it went away.

I expect the NHL to do the same regarding the serial child rapist the Chicago NHL Hockey Team aided and abetted under Rocky Wirtz and the Bowmans (not to mention their simultaneous backing of their racist minor league coach Bill Peters, who callied Akim Aliu the N word, and then demoted the player while Rocky and Stan stood by their man.

MLB did the same thing this season with Spidertack. They came up with a bullshit "testing plan", and only took concrete steps because they couldn't control the narrative after Joe West forced the issue in the Sox Cardinals game.

The spider tack situation was a joke and all show.  They checked practically all the pitchers hats after each half inning, including those pitchers that allowed several runs in the inning.

[hankchifan]

1 hour ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

Things we need to do for 2022, some serious some sarcastic:

Serious- get a second basemen who can hit!!!

Sarcastic-Teach Engel or Vaughn to play second if you can’t get one

Serious- go after Semien or Story if they are willing to play second

Sarcastic- pick up Kimbrel’s option and trade him back to the Cubs for Madrigal and Huer

Serious- Do not pickup Kimbrels option or even take a home town discount if HE wants to stay, doubt that he would stay 

Sarcastic-Bring Ozzie back as manager  LOL

Serious- Bring TLR BACK if nobody else decent is available 

Sarcastic- If TLR leaves make either Abreu or Anderson, player managers. LOL

Serious- Force Abreu during Spring Training, whether he wants to or not wear the elbow guard, if he gets 20 games in with it he’ll get used to it. Eventually somebody is going to shatter his elbow  

Sarcastic-Bring Burger up and shift Moncada back to second. NOT  

Serious- Have Burger play every game in the minors at second base or bring him to camp and he only plays second until he learns the position  

Serious- 2022 Rotation should be #1 Gio  #2 Lynne #3 Cease #4 Rodon with a home town discount or #4 Kopech #5, if no trade or signing is done Lopez, I don’t think Crochet is going to ready next year, he needs to take the Kopech route and MAYBE with pitching 2 and 3 inning stints in relief, he’ll be ready either in September or 2023

Serious- resign Garcia, he’s earned it  

Serious-Resign Tepera, he’s the new 7th inning guy

Serious-get a right fielder, a real right fielder!!! Don’t know if Sheets or Vaughn would an answer

Serious-rotate Sheets,Vaughn,Jimenez, and Abreu at DH, KEEP THE ALL HEALTHY and at the plate as much as possible  

Serious-try to trade Kuechel for anything we can get to get rid of the dollars to spend on another starter because Rodon will leave and I still don’t think Lopez is the answer as a number 5

Serious-DO NOT pick up Kimbrels option, LET HIM GO!! 

 

Serious-ONLY GO AFTER Simien or Story if they are willing to move to second base. 
 

Sarcastic- Teach Vaughn how to Second if you can’t get a real one. 
 

Sarcastic-Teach Engel how to play second base

 

 

 

What about our defensive problem at catcher position?  I am generally in agreement except with bringing TLR back.  Many managers would love to manage a talented high potential team like the Sox.  TLR did not maximize the return on our stars.

[PDXSOX]

Incredibly disappointing, to be sure.  Completely foreseeable, absolutely.  So much for all the "experts" talking about the irrelevance of a poor record against a team you get to face first in the playoffs.  It is and was all true - the Sox were very lucky to be in the AL Central, it made them look much better than they were.  I resent the fact that, given that management must have known this, they dismissed the importance of winning, of developing  a killer instinct to crush opponents, for 6, 8, maybe 10 weeks at the end of the season.  And what you saw was a team with talented pitchers who didn't pitch, talented hitters who didn't hit - in short, not ready for prime time.  The net result is the same as if Ricky Renteria were still there - I, for one, hope that Tony does the right thing and steps down - he had his shot, it didn't happen, and Reinsdorf won't fire him again.  Rodon - hey, thanks for the memories, go get paid - elsewhere, I'm down with that.  Rodon pitched in both games that blew the Sox out of the playoffs 2 years in a row - let Boros stick that into a Powerpoint and spin it for all it's worth.  

Net/net - the team rode over an awful division (Tom Brady knows how that feels in his NE years), bragged they were better than they could show to be, got pummeled in their first playoff series, and had none of its key stars show up when it mattered.  They were outclassed - by a mile - by the Astros in terms of talent, skill at baseball, and overall determination to win.  Maybe to prove that they can win without cheating?  Who knows?  They weren't cheating this time - forget about that - the White Sox missed their moment.

They need more pitching, more reliable pitching, more experience, fewer headcases; they need the hitters they have to hit, remember how to hit, something.  And they need to learn to pick up the ball and throw it straight - I've never seen a sloppier team for a whole season.  At the end of the day, the White Sox are this year's Twins - the AL Central excuse for a playoff team that has no business being in the playoffs and gets pounded and thrown out in the first round.  Hurray!  I guess you can call it a development year.  Screw the bat flips - hit the ball, get on base, hit home runs, throw strikes and miss bats.  Back to basics.

I can't say - and won't - the Cub's refrain for decades.  Next year is promised to no one.  Hopefully Soxfest doesn't turn into a Cub event where they all congratulate themselves on getting close but still getting their participation trophy.  I live outside Chicago, so there's no more Cubs angst here - but it's worse in a way.  My Sox gear is going away for the winter, because I don't feel like getting the out-of-town commentary on how the loud South-siders went out with a whimper - or a roar from the other team as Liam gave up that 3 run homer.

Make the team better, Rick - and Kenny - and especially, Jerry.  And lose LaRussa along the way, please.

[AJ'S Cousin]

27 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

What about our defensive problem at catcher position?  I am generally in agreement except with bringing TLR back.  Many managers would love to manage a talented high potential team like the Sox.  TLR did not maximize the return on our stars.

Yes we have a Huge defensive problem with catcher, agree. BUT and it’s a big but, if you acquire a Maldonado type catcher, where and hypothetically make Grandahl a full time DH,  what do you do with Sheets and Vaughn? Trade 1 or both for young arms or a real second baseman or reAl right fielder? Let’s not forget the potential left fielder who has improved and has a tendency to hit the Disabled List. We have too many 1st Basemen and too many DH’s. Somethings got to give. Collins or Sevy is not the answer. Who is??? We’ll see. 

[AJ'S Cousin]

Yes hankchifan. 
 

Yes we have a Huge defensive problem with catcher, agree. BUT and it’s a big but, if you acquire a Maldonado type catcher, where and hypothetically make Grandahl a full time DH,  what do you do with Sheets and Vaughn? Trade 1 or both for young arms or a real second baseman or reAl right fielder? Let’s not forget the potential left fielder who has improved and has a tendency to hit the Disabled List. We have too many 1st Basemen and too many DH’s. Somethings got to give. Collins or Sevy is not the answer. Who is??? We’ll see. 

[hi8is]

Is there an echo in here?