Offseason Thread

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, 2Deep said:

This is how I saw it but I don't understand why they were worn out. They had plenty of rest and pretty much coasted, but they looked tired.

I did not understand this.

They had some major injuries during the year, last year was covid so everything was messed up. It may take Robert, Eloy and Moncada a full offseason to be back. At least that is my theory. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

How many other managers are going to let Leury play yesterday and hit the most important run in the series?

Small moves in a game may matter, but Dusty Baker didnt have to do anything because his team had more weapons. Its not like the Sox lost to some genius like Belichik who completely outcoached them.

This is all on Hahn, if he was given the green light to add Kimbrel's salary it meant he had money to work with and he misspent it. 

With this roster and the way Hernandez was playing? Nearly all of them. How many would have moved him to RF in game 2 to pinch hit Cesar in a nonsensical situation, leading to a major defensive miscue? One. 

[Balta1701]

Just now, Soxbadger said:

They had some major injuries during the year, last year was covid so everything was messed up. It may take Robert, Eloy and Moncada a full offseason to be back. At least that is my theory. 

And yet that didn’t seem to affect the Astros (or Red Sox for that matter). How odd.

[2Deep]

Just now, Soxbadger said:

They had some major injuries during the year, last year was covid so everything was messed up. It may take Robert, Eloy and Moncada a full offseason to be back. At least that is my theory. 

This could very well be.

Here's to a healthy season next year and see what this team can do. 

Also, I know we love Jose but he seemed on fumes and needs to be given more days off with Vaughn playing 1st B and some OF

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Obviously he's better, I just don't see Conforto as being a realistic option for JR and the Sox. 

FWIW I don’t want Conforto either.  He would be my pick for NL player to come here and hit .225

[2Deep]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

With this roster and the way Hernandez was playing? Nearly all of them. How many would have moved him to RF in game 2 to pinch hit Cesar in a nonsensical situation, leading to a major defensive miscue? One. 

That move made no sense 

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

If you seen Conforto play this season, you would want no part of Conforto. I don't see a high ceiling for him, and the projected $20M AAV would be a huge mistake.

For the same projected AAV, I much rather have Semien.

Also, Rodon projects close to $6M over the new QO amount.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/

Players with posted AAV projections:

• DH: Martinez $23.2; Cruz $14.1.
• Catchers: Posey $11.2; Zunino $9.6; Gomes $7.7.
• First Base: Freeman $27.3; Rizzo $21.7; Belt $17.1.
• Second Base: Taylor $11.0.
• Shortstop: Seager $31.9; Story $29.8; Correa $26.6; Baez $24.2; Semien $19.6.
• Third Base: Ramirez $30.2; Bryant $23.6; Seager $19.0; Escobar $10.0.
• Right Field: Castellanos $21.4; Conforto $19.1.
• Left Field: Schwarber $12.9M 
• Starters: Scherzer $35.6; Kershaw $31.8; Syndergaard $29.3; Rodon $24.1; Gausman $22.5; Stroman $21.0M; Ray $18.0M; DeScalfani $10.2M; Greinke $9.0,
• Relievers: Iglesias $15.6; Jansen $10.1; Kimbrel $9.3.

Do you think Conforto has "lost a step" or something? He had a bad year for sure, but the previous 4 years he averaged 4+ WAR (extrapolating last season). He is just turning 29, so he's not that old. 

[2Deep]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

FWIW I don’t want Conforto either.  He would be my pick for NL player to come here and hit .225

I want to have nothing to do with Conforto.

Do not like his game at all.

All or nothing guy and most of the time its nothing......unless he is having his 2 hot streaks during the year.

Edited October 13, 2021 by 2Deep

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

This could very well be.

Here's to a healthy season next year and see what this team can do. 

Also, I know we love Jose but he seemed on fumes and needs to be given more days off with Vaughn playing 1st B and some OF

And for god's sake, wear an elbow guard. I'm surprised he isn't getting bone chips removed from his elbow. 

[Soxbadger]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And yet that didn’t seem to affect the Astros (or Red Sox for that matter). How odd.

I dont watch those teams often, they had major injuries to almost half their starting line up?

[ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack]

Oscar Colas or Y. Cespedes will probably be in RF for next year(s) playoff run(s).

As much as us fans would like Semien, would bet the SS Stingy Pockets of JR instruct RH and KW to tell Burger he can play 2B if he puts the work in. 
 

No more monkey business with pitchers.  Pick up guys who THROW STRIKES.  Houston executed all series on taking advantage of Cws mistakes.  

[soulfly]

5 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

This is all on Hahn, if he was given the green light to add Kimbrel's salary it meant he had money to work with and he misspent it. 

This is basically Hahn in a nutshell.  The thing that infuriates me the most, in an interview a couple years ago, he was going on about how they weren't interested in stop gap type veteran players.   (this was on the mid stages of the rebuild)  How they wouldn't mortgage the future for a quick fix, etc.  And then proceeded to do nothing but that in most of his trades and signings.  Say what you will about Madrigal, but we had a second basemen for the future.  Now we have another hole that we didn't have going in to this year.  The only way they fix that is to retool using a couple pieces currently on the team.

[fathom]

I predict Sox and Tampa make a deal this offseason with Wendle or Meadows involved.  Not saying it would be for one of them, but I’m sure Tampa would love to acquire Crochet.

[Soxbadger]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

With this roster and the way Hernandez was playing? Nearly all of them. How many would have moved him to RF in game 2 to pinch hit Cesar in a nonsensical situation, leading to a major defensive miscue? One. 

When your team is undermanned you press and make mistakes. If LaRussa had Altuve and Tucker he wouldn't have to make those asinine decisions.

Kimbrel likely cost more than Shwarber. Imagine if he is in the lineup. 

Hahn cost the Sox HFA more than Tony.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Soxbadger

[maloney.adam]

Just now, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said:

Oscar Colas or Y. Cespedes will probably be in RF for next year(s) playoff run(s).

As much as us fans would like Semien, would bet the SS Stingy Pockets of JR instruct RH and KW to tell Burger he can play 2B if he puts the work in. 
 

No more monkey business with pitchers.  Pick up guys who THROW STRIKES.  Houston executed all series on taking advantage of Cws mistakes.  

Oscar Colas and Y. Cespedes? Hahahaha Colas isn’t even on the team yet and Cespedes is not even ready yet for the big leagues. 

[ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack]

4 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Oscar Colas and Y. Cespedes? Hahahaha Colas isn’t even on the team yet and Cespedes is not even ready yet for the big leagues. 

Can you read Cusack?  The sentence is plural for multiple years. 

[Chicago White Sox]

I’m still struggling with how we address the offense.  2B & RF are the holes, but I’m still not sure how you fit all of Eloy, Vaughn, & Sheets onto this roster.  It’s easy to say that Gavin should be the odd man out, but the kid just put up a 143 wRC+ against RHP as a rookie and has one of the better approaches at the plate.  To me, he passed the eye test this year and 100% needs to be the strong side of a DH platoon as head into the 2022 season.

Andrew Vaughn is another guy I don’t think we can move.  He was damn good offensively once he adjusted to the league, posting a 119 wRC+ over July & August.  And that’s after missing out any serious minor league development.  I think people have become too harsh on him due to his end of season struggles.  I think he could be our best hitter as soon as next season and his plate discipline is desperately needed.  The challenge is where do you actually play him?  While he exceeded all expectations in the OF, the reality is he’s not very good out there.  Rocking both him and Eloy in the corners would be problematic.

Speaking of Eloy, but no idea how you could ever consider moving him right now.  I get he disappointed this year, but he also didn’t get a spring training and was coming off a tough injury.  At the end of the day, this is a 25 year old kid under contract for the next five years at reasonable rate who posted a 139 wRC+ in his second season.  I don’t care what people say, his offensive potential is absolutely insane and you’d be selling low on him right now.  I think he’s a clear hold, but should see more time at DH.

So yeah, that kind of leaves us in a bind.  Even if you considered moving Vaughn or Eloy, what kind of return would you be looking for?  Would the Dodgers consider a Vaughn for Lux type deal?  To me, that’s the only type of move I’d consider with Andrew.  If so, that would free up RF for Conforto and allow us to add two left-handed bats to the lineup:

1. Tim Anderson, SS
2. Luis Robert, CF
3. Yoan Moncada, 3B#
4. Michael Conforto, RF*
5. Eloy Jimenez, LF
6. Yasmani Grandal, C#
7. Jose Abreu, 1B
8. Gavin Sheets, DH*
9. Gavin Lux, 2B*

Again, no idea if the Dodgers would even consider such a deal, but it’s the only move I can think of that fills one of our major holes with a young, potential impact talent who happens to bad LH while also relieving the redundancy we have in LF/RF/DH with guys who are poor defenders.  Hahn will have to think outside the box if he wants to fix this offense as we have a lot of great pieces, but ones that don’t necessarily fit all that well together.

[maloney.adam]

1 minute ago, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said:

Can you read Cusack?  The sentence is plural for multiple years. 

Hey Spaulding, they still won’t be ready. Isn’t it past your bedtime?

[South Side Hit Men]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

Do you think Conforto has "lost a step" or something? He had a bad year for sure, but the previous 4 years he averaged 4+ WAR (extrapolating last season). He is just turning 29, so he's not that old. 

Pretty sure Conforto would land on the Dunn/La Roche side of the failed White Sox NL Free Agent Ledger, though with double the price tag. He'll continue pressing trying to learn a new league, he's a hole defensively, and kills any payroll flexibility.

You can't multiply 2020 by 2.7 (162/60), the 162 grind grinds down numbers. He'll be three years removed from his 3.6 (2019) season, and will likely require a 3-4 year deal, hamstringing the team in the future. He is a 2.2 bWAR per year player over his 7 year career.

[JoeCredeYes]

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

I predict Sox and Tampa make a deal this offseason with Wendle or Meadows involved.  Not saying it would be for one of them, but I’m sure Tampa would love to acquire Crochet.

Why is everyone so hot on dealing Crochet?  He's got Carlos Rodon/Robbie Ray type stuff and still learning how to pitch. 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

When your team is undermanned you press and make mistakes. If LaRussa had Altuve and Tucker he wouldn't have to make those asinine decisions.

Kimbrel likely cost more than Shwarber. Imagine if he is in the lineup. 

Hahn cost the Sox HFA more than Tony.

Remember, you’re trying to convince a guy who wrote probably 3000 words on why Rick Hahn was the worst GM in baseball back in 2019 that Rick Hahn screwed up. He absolutely did. But I also watched how bad the coaching was this year and the last time the White Sox had such a set of in game debacles might go back to freaking Bevington. Both mattered. I don’t know if either can be overcome. I don’t know that I see Hahn having a core of defenders after this deadline.

[JoeCredeYes]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m still struggling with how we address the offense.  2B & RF are the holes, but I’m still not sure how you fit all of Eloy, Vaughn, & Sheets onto this roster.  It’s easy to say that Gavin should be the odd man out, but the kid just put up a 143 wRC+ against RHP as a rookie and has one of the better approaches at the plate.  To me, he passed the eye test this year and 100% needs to be the strong side of a DH platoon as head into the 2022 season.

Andrew Vaughn is another guy I don’t think we can move.  He was damn good offensively once he adjusted to the league, posting a 119 wRC+ over July & August.  And that’s after missing out any serious minor league development.  I think people have become too harsh on him due to his end of season struggles.  I think he could be our best hitter as soon as next season and his plate discipline is desperately needed.  The challenge is where do you actually play him?  While he exceeded all expectations in the OF, the reality is he’s not very good out there.  Rocking both him and Eloy in the corners would be problematic.

Speaking of Eloy, but no idea how you could ever consider moving him right now.  I get he disappointed this year, but he also didn’t get a spring training and was coming off a tough injury.  At the end of the day, this is a 25 year old kid under contract for the next five years at reasonable rate who posted a 139 wRC+ in his second season.  I don’t care what people say, his offensive potential is absolutely insane and you’d be selling low on him right now.  I think he’s a clear hold, but should see more time at DH.

So yeah, that kind of leaves us in a bind.  Even if you considered moving Vaughn or Eloy, what kind of return would you be looking for?  Would the Dodgers consider a Vaughn for Lux type deal?  To me, that’s the only type of move I’d consider with Andrew.  If so, that would free up RF for Conforto and allow us to add two left-handed bats to the lineup:

1. Tim Anderson, SS
2. Luis Robert, CF
3. Yoan Moncada, 3B#
4. Michael Conforto, RF*
5. Eloy Jimenez, LF
6. Yasmani Grandal, C#
7. Jose Abreu, 1B
8. Gavin Sheets, DH*
9. Gavin Lux, 2B*

Again, no idea if the Dodgers would even consider such a deal, but it’s the only move I can think of that fills one of our major holes with a young, potential impact talent who happens to bad LH while also relieving the redundancy we have in LF/RF/DH with guys who are poor defenders.  Hahn will have to think outside the box if he wants to fix this offense as we have a lot of great pieces, but ones that don’t necessarily fit all that well together.

Sure solve a lot of these problems by removing Jose Abreu from the mix...

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Would the Dodgers consider a Vaughn for Lux type deal?  To me, that’s the only type of move I’d consider with Andrew.  If so, that would free up RF for Conforto and allow us to add two left-handed bats to the lineup:

1. Tim Anderson, SS
2. Luis Robert, CF
3. Yoan Moncada, 3B#
4. Michael Conforto, RF*
5. Eloy Jimenez, LF
6. Yasmani Grandal, C#
7. Jose Abreu, 1B
8. Gavin Sheets, DH*
9. Gavin Lux, 2B*

Again, no idea if the Dodgers would even consider such a deal, but it’s the only move I can think of that fills one of our major holes with a young, potential impact talent who happens to bad LH while also relieving the redundancy we have in LF/RF/DH with guys who are poor defenders.  Hahn will have to think outside the box if he wants to fix this offense as we have a lot of great pieces, but ones that don’t necessarily fit all that well together.

Vaughn does seem like a Dodgers fitting player, but with Muncy and Bellinger and others on their roster I struggle to see them paying that much for him. Interesting concept.

[Soxbadger]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Remember, you’re trying to convince a guy who wrote probably 3000 words on why Rick Hahn was the worst GM in baseball back in 2019 that Rick Hahn screwed up. He absolutely did. But I also watched how bad the coaching was this year and the last time the White Sox had such a set of in game debacles might go back to freaking Bevington. Both mattered. I don’t know if either can be overcome. I don’t know that I see Hahn having a core of defenders after this deadline.

Im pretty confident if the managers of Astros and Sox were reversed the Astros still win.

Baseball managers dont have a huge impact (imo), players win out. Hahn was the problem.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Soxbadger

[fathom]

5 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Why is everyone so hot on dealing Crochet?  He's got Carlos Rodon/Robbie Ray type stuff and still learning how to pitch. 

Because his value as a reliever is not needed the next few years IMO