Offseason Thread

[ShoeLessRob]

5 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

I'm going to break my own sabbatical and throw out a name that I really like that I think provides the Sox a lot of balance and he can play multiple positions.  He's also someone who just might be available if the Mets do resign Baez, which I think is likely.  Jeff McNeill.  He had a crappy year last year but dude has been pretty damn good both at hitting for average, getting on base, not striking out, and also plays multiple positions.  He also has enough pop to hit 23 home runs and that will likely increase if he played half his games at Comiskey.  Just throwing this out there.  I don't know if he will be available or not but I'm a huge fan having watched him a fair bit in New York.  Rumor has it the Mets were in on Kimbrel.  To be honest, I think McNeill is a much a better version of Nick MAdrigal.  Again, not sure how likely it is that he's on the market but I would check in to see if he's available.  Diaz was a high wire act down the stretch for them anyways.  And even if it's not Kimbrel who they trade for him, I'm wondering if the Sox might have enough to amke it work.

I like it. 

[macsandz]

17 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

I'm going to break my own sabbatical and throw out a name that I really like that I think provides the Sox a lot of balance and he can play multiple positions.  He's also someone who just might be available if the Mets do resign Baez, which I think is likely.  Jeff McNeill.  He had a crappy year last year but dude has been pretty damn good both at hitting for average, getting on base, not striking out, and also plays multiple positions.  He also has enough pop to hit 23 home runs and that will likely increase if he played half his games at Comiskey.  Just throwing this out there.  I don't know if he will be available or not but I'm a huge fan having watched him a fair bit in New York.  Rumor has it the Mets were in on Kimbrel.  To be honest, I think McNeill is a much a better version of Nick MAdrigal.  Again, not sure how likely it is that he's on the market but I would check in to see if he's available.  Diaz was a high wire act down the stretch for them anyways.  And even if it's not Kimbrel who they trade for him, I'm wondering if the Sox might have enough to amke it work.

McNeil is an versatile, hitting unicorn that's very cheap and under control for years. Mets aren't gonna deal him unless it's an absolute fleece haul. 

[turnin' two]

47 minutes ago, macsandz said:

If I'm targeting a prime years lefty 2B with plus power, plus defense and diminishing K/ground ball rate, I'm targeting Ryan McMahon from COL.

A package of McMahon + Elias Diaz would shore up the defense up the middle in a much needed way.

From MLB traderumors yesterday:

Quote

In terms of the rest of the roster, Schmidt’s recent comments provided by Groke suggest he may turn initially to the trade market, which would be a departure from normal operating procedure under former GM Jeff Bridich. If the Rockies do decide to dangle some of their players, Groke suggests Raimel Tapia, Brendan Rodgers, Colton Welker, Daniel Bard, Ryan Vilade, and Grant Lavigne as affordable assets that might draw attention. Comments from the club last season suggested they plan to build around Tapia and Ryan McMahon, so it would be a little surprising to see one of them move, even if there’s wisdom in exploring the options.

And doesn't everything you just said about McNeil apply here as well?

[macsandz]

11 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

From MLB traderumors yesterday:

And doesn't everything you just said about McNeil apply here as well?

Sure if you disregard the fact that McNeil is under control for longer, costs half as much and in fewer games McNeil has almost doubled McMahon's career WAR. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by macsandz

[SCCWS]

1 hour ago, macsandz said:

If I'm targeting a prime years lefty 2B with plus power, plus defense and diminishing K/ground ball rate, I'm targeting Ryan McMahon from COL.

A package of McMahon + Elias Diaz would shore up the defense up the middle in a much needed way.

I think McMahon would be a great addition. But you want to acquire guy who had WAR value similar to  what Moncada had  this season (but who makes less money) and a catcher.  What  would you trade w similar value? That package has a 6+ War w limited salary  attached. My gut is McMahon is a keeper for them although I assume he needs a new contract. 

[tray]

RE Jeff McNeill  - Sox don't have much young prospect capital  unless they are willing to let Vaughn go, just like they did with Madrigal.

Have to something though to plug the holes at second base and RF.

 

 

[Balta1701]

39 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I think McMahon would be a great addition. But you want to acquire guy who had WAR value similar to  what Moncada had  this season (but who makes less money) and a catcher.  What  would you trade w similar value? That package has a 6+ War w limited salary  attached. My gut is McMahon is a keeper for them although I assume he needs a new contract. 

He also appears to have only 2 years of control remaining, and his fWAR was significantly lower than Moncada's even if their rWAR's were similar, because a lot of his value seems to be coming from defense and I think the systems don't agree well on defense. This is also his first year in his career where he was worth over 1 fWAR.

Gut instinct - he is a guy who could be gotten for a couple of pieces from our system, one of whom is a legit/top 15 piece, but he isn't a guy you're going to talk about unpacking Vaughn or Crochet or anything close to that. You might get away with something like one of the top 3-4 minor league starters + Foster, since the Rockies are always in need of pitching.

[SCCWS]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He also appears to have only 2 years of control remaining, and his fWAR was significantly lower than Moncada's even if their rWAR's were similar, because a lot of his value seems to be coming from defense and I think the systems don't agree well on defense. This is also his first year in his career where he was worth over 1 fWAR.

Gut instinct - he is a guy who could be gotten for a couple of pieces from our system, one of whom is a legit/top 15 piece, but he isn't a guy you're going to talk about unpacking Vaughn or Crochet or anything close to that. You might get away with something like one of the top 3-4 minor league starters + Foster, since the Rockies are always in need of pitching.

Balta-- His HR( 23)  might be tarnished by Coors but 86 RBI are very good numbers for a 2B.  Strikes out similar to Moncada but walks are low.  Looks like he had a very good year defensively as you noted.  I think they will need a better offer than you propose. Seems like he is a guy they will keep in a rebuild 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

Balta-- His HR( 23)  might be tarnished by Coors but 86 RBI are very good numbers for a 2B.  Strikes out similar to Moncada but walks are low.  Looks like he had a very good year defensively as you noted.  I think they will need a better offer than you propose. Seems like he is a guy they will keep in a rebuild 

If the Rockies are basing a high price on his RBIs then there's not going to be much to talk about.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, SCCWS said:

I think McMahon would be a great addition. But you want to acquire guy who had WAR value similar to  what Moncada had  this season (but who makes less money) and a catcher.  What  would you trade w similar value? That package has a 6+ War w limited salary  attached. My gut is McMahon is a keeper for them although I assume he needs a new contract. 

McMahon had a 776 OPS playing in Colorado and has never had a wRC+ over league average (100). Why the heck would the Sox want to acquire him?

Sox are talking about trying to upgrade and win a title and Soxtalk is talking about bringing in Caesar Hernandez LIGHT.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

Balta-- His HR( 23)  might be tarnished by Coors but 86 RBI are very good numbers for a 2B.  Strikes out similar to Moncada but walks are low.  Looks like he had a very good year defensively as you noted.  I think they will need a better offer than you propose. Seems like he is a guy they will keep in a rebuild 

Are we talking about the same Ryan McMahon?

I understand the Coors effect hurts your away numbers, but the guy hit 227 with a 723 OPS. I'll pass on trading for another Cesar Hernandez. In his career he's a career 211 hitter away from Coors Field with a 76 wRC+. People talking about him like he's the next coming of Trevor Story and the Rockies are going to rebuild around him.

[macsandz]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

McMahon had a 776 OPS playing in Colorado and has never had a wRC+ over league average (100). Why the heck would the Sox want to acquire him?

Sox are talking about trying to upgrade and win a title and Soxtalk is talking about bringing in Caesar Hernandez LIGHT.

Because he's a young, controlled, emerging power bat from the left side that's elite defensively at multiple positions that wouldn't cost much to acquire.  That's why. 

[hankchifan]

7 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Forget about the White Sox trading Vaughn, Crochet, Kopech....they make no money. These are guys that must be kept around or you are going to have a huge problem really quickly. The Cubs had the problem, and the Sox aren't close to them financially. It's another reason why trading Madrigal really stings. He's easy to replace if you blow up your payroll.

Madrigal trade was a big blunder.  We had control, he is a .300 contact hitter which the Sox lacks and needs.  A first rounder.

[T R U]

13 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Madrigal trade was a big blunder.  We had control, he is a .300 contact hitter which the Sox lacks and needs.  A first rounder.

You should really trade from strength. If you look at this team going into the off-season you could argue 2nd base and another good bullpen arm are two of our biggest needs. 
 

it’s what we gave away for Kimbrel who stunk and will most likely not be on this team next season. 

[poppysox]

6 hours ago, Colome's Hat said:

I'm going to break my own sabbatical and throw out a name that I really like that I think provides the Sox a lot of balance and he can play multiple positions.  He's also someone who just might be available if the Mets do resign Baez, which I think is likely.  Jeff McNeill.  He had a crappy year last year but dude has been pretty damn good both at hitting for average, getting on base, not striking out, and also plays multiple positions.  He also has enough pop to hit 23 home runs and that will likely increase if he played half his games at Comiskey.  Just throwing this out there.  I don't know if he will be available or not but I'm a huge fan having watched him a fair bit in New York.  Rumor has it the Mets were in on Kimbrel.  To be honest, I think McNeill is a much a better version of Nick MAdrigal.  Again, not sure how likely it is that he's on the market but I would check in to see if he's available.  Diaz was a high wire act down the stretch for them anyways.  And even if it's not Kimbrel who they trade for him, I'm wondering if the Sox might have enough to amke it work.

Not real interested in NL castoffs but this is a real nice player if available at the right price.

[hankchifan]

On 10/14/2021 at 6:51 AM, Texsox said:

If this is true, what a joke. Let the players pick a manager? How about getting the fans involved? 

https://fansided.com/2021/10/13/tony-la-russa-white-sox-return-2022/

 

Fans are an important stakeholder for the Sox, and should be listened too.  I guess many players would not prefer a hard driven hard ass manager.  Would prefer a low energy manager not pushing them too hard.

[hankchifan]

24 minutes ago, T R U said:

You should really trade from strength. If you look at this team going into the off-season you could argue 2nd base and another good bullpen arm are two of our biggest needs. 
 

it’s what we gave away for Kimbrel who stunk and will most likely not be on this team next season. 

Agree we gave out two young promising players for an aging expensive rental that ended up pitching one inning in the playoffs, and sucked during the regular season.  The best trade would have been staying pat and not make the trade. We already had a closer. FO wants to be cute at times and they screw things up.

[hankchifan]

Chris Sale not looking good tonight against the Astros.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Chris Sale not looking good tonight against the Astros.

He was good enough to hold the lead...have a feeling TLR would have left him in against Gurriel and suffered the consequences.

[turnin' two]

7 hours ago, macsandz said:

Sure if you disregard the fact that McNeil is under control for longer, costs half as much and in fewer games McNeil has almost doubled McMahon's career WAR. 

Sure, but McMahon had more than twice McNeil's WAR this year, the difference is 1 year of control so he still gives you multiple years, and he still makes relative peanuts.  So he still makes sense for the Rockies to keep, and would still take a haul to acquire correct?  That still seems like a really valuable asset for a team to trade/acquire.  

Edited October 16, 2021 by turnin' two

[turnin' two]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

He was good enough to hold the lead...have a feeling TLR would have left him in against Gurriel and suffered the consequences.

And Sale would have gotten him out.  

There is some real risk in needing 6 pitchers to all be on their game in the same game.

Edited October 16, 2021 by turnin' two

[turnin' two]

2 hours ago, macsandz said:

Because he's a young, controlled, emerging power bat from the left side that's elite defensively at multiple positions that wouldn't cost much to acquire.  That's why. 

See, I don't get why that combination of things wouldn't cost much to acquire, except that the Rockies are stupid I guess.  But haven't they been stupid in asking too much for guys, not the other way around?  

And I'm not trying to be an argumentative jerk here, I'm honestly trying to understand your perspective and your info.  

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

See, I don't get why that combination of things wouldn't cost much to acquire, except that the Rockies are stupid I guess.  But haven't they been stupid in asking too much for guys, not the other way around?  

And I'm not trying to be an argumentative jerk here, I'm honestly trying to understand your perspective and your info.  

Yes they have been asking too much. But they also only have 2 years of control left of this player before they have to pay him. Unless he explodes in performance this year, his trade value doesn’t go up at the deadline this year, it hovers for a while and goes down. Cesar had 1.5 years of control, a little more expensive than this guy, and he only got Pilkington.

Plus, it’s a little tough to see them competing in that division the next 2 years. You may have noticed there are a few good teams in the NL west. 

[hankchifan]

Astros shut down Red Sox in the 9 th with the shift.

[tray]

Altuve and Correa with key bombs in that game.

Looked like maybe they both knew what pitch was coming.