Offseason Thread

[fathom]

I do wonder if the Sox target Gary Sanchez as catcher 1B, allowing 1A Grandal the chance to DH more. They’ve loved Sanchez in the past.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

Back when Hosmer was a free agent and they could have moved on from Abreu, it would have been a BIG MOVE to get mega star and Royals hero Eric Hosmer. Plus, he was Top Tier, of the A-Class Free Agents.

The friends and family plan was stupid and the Sox shouldn't have relied on options to woo Machado. But you know? We aren't reportedly telling teams to take a Top 50 prospect (if not Top 20) to get out of Alonso and Jay.

I don't see what the point of mocking him is when he pretty much meant the same to KC as Konerko did to the White Sox...and it's not like the Sox are in a position to be looking down on World Series-winning players. 

Just like St. Louis with Pujols a decade ago, mid or small market teams are better off not making emotional signings after playoff successes.  Look at KC with Alex Gordon, or the Sox keeping Contreras and Konerko way too long.

Btw, we almost had a deal for Alex Gordon that would have turned out to be a massive mistake with pretty much the same line of thinking that went into the Hosmer to SD, or Cain to Milwaukee.  Leadership...

[maloney.adam]

21 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

No chance to get Semien

 

18 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

dammit

Doesn’t mean anything. Boras is Conforto’s and Castellano’s agent. He is also Keuchel’s and Rodon’s agent. Actually it seems like he’s the agent for mostly all the high profile players. I would honestly rather they deal with him than Lozano. Lol

Edited October 28, 2021 by maloney.adam

[caulfield12]

Just now, fathom said:

I do wonder if the Sox target Gary Sanchez as catcher 1B, allowing 1A Grandal the chance to DH more. They’ve loved Sanchez in the past.

Would you really count on a good offensive year from him if you look at that completely unpredictable stat line? It's like we are deliberately playing with fire adding him or Conforto...hoping to hit on these discounted guys when there's almost no record of the Sox being able to make the right evaluations or projections.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I don't see what the point of mocking him is when he pretty much meant the same to KC as Konerko did to the White Sox...and it's not like the Sox are in a position to be looking down on World Series-winning players. 

Just like St. Louis with Pujols a decade ago, mid or small market teams are better off not making emotional signings after playoff successes.  Look at KC with Alex Gordon, or the Sox keeping Contreras and Konerko way too long.

Btw, we almost had a deal for Alex Gordon that would have turned out to be a massive mistake with pretty much the same line of thinking that went into the Hosmer to SD, or Cain to Milwaukee.  Leadership...

Huge difference between 3-4 year deal for Gordon and 8 years for Hosmer

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

42 minutes ago, Quin said:

Back when Hosmer was a free agent and they could have moved on from Abreu, it would have been a BIG MOVE to get mega star and Royals hero Eric Hosmer. Plus, he was Top Tier, of the A-Class Free Agents.

The friends and family plan was stupid and the Sox shouldn't have relied on options to woo Machado. But you know? We aren't reportedly telling teams to take a Top 50 prospect (if not Top 20) to get out of Alonso and Jay.

Hosmer was never a megastar; although I think you might be being sarcastic. That signing was a complete disaster from the second they made it.

I'm not sure there's been a player in the past 10 years whose narrative has not matched his level of play more than Hosmer.

Caufields obsession with a guy who has 11 career fWAR in 1550 career games is amazing. WAR hasn't been kind to Abreu because of his glove issues, and he's accumulated 23 fWAR in 1100 games.

Hosmer is a clown; a rich clown at that.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I don't see what the point of mocking him is when he pretty much meant the same to KC as Konerko did to the White Sox...and it's not like the Sox are in a position to be looking down on World Series-winning players. 

Just like St. Louis with Pujols a decade ago, mid or small market teams are better off not making emotional signings after playoff successes.  Look at KC with Alex Gordon, or the Sox keeping Contreras and Konerko way too long.

Btw, we almost had a deal for Alex Gordon that would have turned out to be a massive mistake with pretty much the same line of thinking that went into the Hosmer to SD, or Cain to Milwaukee.  Leadership...

Paul Konerko spent 16 years with the White Sox, hit 439 career homers, and had a career wRC of 118! He had 8 years with wRC+ over 120, 5 years over 130.

Eric Hosmer spent SEVEN years with the Royals, had 125ish homers and had a wRC+ over 130 one time.

Comparing Eric Hosmer to Paul Konerko is hilarious. Pretending their impacts were anywhere near similar on the organizations is also hilarious.

[Quin]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Hosmer was never a megastar; although I think you might be being sarcastic. That signing was a complete disaster from the second they made it.

I'm not sure there's been a player in the past 10 years whose narrative has not matched his level of play more than Hosmer.

Caufields obsession with a guy who has 11 career fWAR in 1550 career games is amazing. WAR hasn't been kind to Abreu because of his glove issues, and he's accumulated 23 fWAR in 1100 games.

Hosmer is a clown; a rich clown at that.

In honor of Halloween, the sarcasm is thicker than a snicker.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

56 minutes ago, fathom said:

I do wonder if the Sox target Gary Sanchez as catcher 1B, allowing 1A Grandal the chance to DH more. They’ve loved Sanchez in the past.

Isn't he horrendous defensively?

[kleedawg]

3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Isn't he horrendous defensively?

absolutely terrible.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I wonder if the Yankees explore a complete re-tool and would try getting rid of that Lemahieu contract.  He'd be a perfect guy to follow if they do decide to make him available.

[ShoeLessRob]

We can’t afford to put anymore big money into catcher, for better or worse Granda is it. We have much more glaring holes too fill.

[kleedawg]

2 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I wonder if the Yankees explore a complete re-tool and would try getting rid of that Lemahieu contract.  He'd be a perfect guy to follow if they do decide to make him available.

Word is they are going to sign one of the big name ss (prolly Seager) move Lemahieu to 2b and trade Torres.

[hi8is]

5 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

Word is they are going to sign one of the big name ss (prolly Seager) move Lemahieu to 2b and trade Torres.

Can I have 2019 Torres, please?

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Hosmer was never a megastar; although I think you might be being sarcastic. That signing was a complete disaster from the second they made it.

I'm not sure there's been a player in the past 10 years whose narrative has not matched his level of play more than Hosmer.

Caufields obsession with a guy who has 11 career fWAR in 1550 career games is amazing. WAR hasn't been kind to Abreu because of his glove issues, and he's accumulated 23 fWAR in 1100 games.

Hosmer is a clown; a rich clown at that.

I never even liked Hosmer that much, compared to Perez and Cain and watching guys like Dyson and Gore fly around the bases.  They (the Royals) absolutely owned second and third base if they got on in the last 2-3 innings...as did their bullpen with three closers at the back end.  The White Sox, despite lots of guys with speed (see MLB stolen base leader Hamilton) and the most expensive pen in history never managed to approximate that on either front.

My only argument was that he wasn't going to be benched after the trade deadline.

In reality, Prefer and Kim and the outfielders all saw the biggest reduction in playing time.  They could have simply moved Myers to first, or Cronenworth, but they didn't do that as Ray ray predicted over and over and over again...simply basing his analysis on fWAR/bWAR numbers that never are going to look all that great for 1B/DH types.  The fact that they threatened to trade him (and didn't) was one of the major reasons that once-tight clubhouse started to come apart, along with not adding more pitching and virtually the entire offense outside of Machado and Tatis falling apart, especially with RISP, the last 6-7 weeks.

Edited October 28, 2021 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I wonder if the Yankees explore a complete re-tool and would try getting rid of that Lemahieu contract.  He'd be a perfect guy to follow if they do decide to make him available.

Great, all the aging vets with big names.  KW should just take over the reigns again with that philosophy.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I never even liked Hosmer that much, compared to Perez and Cain and watching guys like Dyson and Gore fly around the bases.  They (the Royals) absolutely owned second and third base if they got on in the last 2-3 innings...as did their bullpen with three closers at the back end.  The White Sox, despite lots of guys with speed (see MLB stolen base leader Hamilton) and the most expensive pen in history never managed to approximate that on either front.

My only argument was that he wasn't going to be benched after the trade deadline.

In reality, Prefer and Kim and the outfielders all saw the biggest reduction in playing time.  They could have simply moved Myers to first, or Cronenworth, but they didn't do that as Ray ray predicted over and over and over again...simply basing his analysis on fWAR/bWAR numbers that never are going to look all that great for 1B/DH types.  The fact that they threatened to trade him (and didn't) was one of the major reasons that once-tight clubhouse started to come apart, along with not adding more pitching and virtually the entire offense outside of Machado and Tatis falling apart, especially with RISP, the last 6-7 weeks.

You keep blaming Hosmer playing first for his poor war. Guy was the 3rd worst 1st baseman in baseball last year of 26 qualified. Has nothing to do with first. Hosmer just sucks dude. 

Who knew you were hanging out in the clubhouse.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Quin said:

In honor of Halloween, the sarcasm is thicker than a snicker.

Wow...never caught that at all.  As someone who lived there for ten years in KC when the team was the absolute laughingstock of baseball (1998-2007), it was a nice story for the sport and a team without a playoff appearance in thirty years to pull off what they did without a large payroll. And they helped revolutionize modern bullpen management...a niche that worked with a limited budget but has exacerbated game lengtgs, leading to 4 1/2 hour playoff games.

Edited October 28, 2021 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You keep blaming Hosmer playing first for his poor war. Guy was the 3rd worst 1st baseman in baseball last year of 26 qualified. Has nothing to do with first. Hosmer just sucks dude. 

Who knew you were hanging out in the clubhouse.

Where did I once say the entire season that he was good?

I didn't.

Go back and look through every single post.

I said he wasn't getting benched on that team in that moment.

Did I say it was a miscarriage of justice he wasn't on the All-Star team or that he was criminally underrated like Ketel Marte?

No.

Ultimately, adding Frazier, who performed like Cesar Hernandez, cut time from 6-7 guys and that overkill created a lot of grumbling when they didn't manage to add a starter while LA was making the Scherzer and Turner moves to bury them. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Hosmer was never a megastar; although I think you might be being sarcastic. That signing was a complete disaster from the second they made it.

I'm not sure there's been a player in the past 10 years whose narrative has not matched his level of play more than Hosmer.

Caufields obsession with a guy who has 11 career fWAR in 1550 career games is amazing. WAR hasn't been kind to Abreu because of his glove issues, and he's accumulated 23 fWAR in 1100 games.

Hosmer is a clown; a rich clown at that.

To be fair, Caulfield is obsessed with all Royals…and all Padres.

[macsandz]

9 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I've asked this multiple times from those "in the know" that have insinuated as such.  No actual stories I have seen other than him just being kind of a strange dude.  Which I would agree.  There were some videos of him interacting with TA and other teammates during ST that were just sort of...awkward.  But IMO, that certainly wasn't enough to trade him for 2 months of a closer on a team that didn't need one. Water under the bridge tho, Sox can recover from that deal if they stop making dumb shortsighted trades. 

You're right which is why he wasn't.  Kimbrel's contact includes a team option for 2022.  

Madrigal didn't make a lot of allies because he complained about everything the team asked him to do.  

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, macsandz said:

You're right which is why he wasn't.  Kimbrel's contact includes a team option for 2022.  

Madrigal didn't make a lot of allies because he complained about everything the team asked him to do.  

I’m well aware of the option. Kimbrel is highly unlikely to be on the Sox in 22 and that was always going to be the case. No way they’re paying 2 relievers ~$32M. 

[macsandz]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

I’m well aware of the option. Kimbrel is highly unlikely to be on the Sox in 22 and that was always going to be the case. No way they’re paying 2 relievers ~$32M. 

Great. Your scenario is still flawed. They're not gonna give him $2M to let him walk.

He's gonna have some value in 2022 - either in a trade or in the pen. 

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, macsandz said:

Great. Your scenario is still flawed. They're not gonna give him $2M to let him walk.

He's gonna have some value in 2022 - either in a trade or in the pen. 

"Some" being the operative word here..."lots" would mean starting the season with him on the OD roster and returning to first half form.  But as a set-up man unless Hendricks asked to change roles to accommodate Kimbrel. Pretty unlikely.

[Balta1701]

6 hours ago, macsandz said:

Great. Your scenario is still flawed. They're not gonna give him $2M to let him walk.

He's gonna have some value in 2022 - either in a trade or in the pen. 

I know who is writing this, so just saying again “we insist we didn’t make a mistake and we will throw another $16 million at proving that” would be such awful thinking by the front office it’s hard to put it into words.