Offseason Thread

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

Sign a good 2B and make Balta the manager, this team wins nearly 110 games

110 seems light 

[Chimpton]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I’d buy this more except this concept didn’t work this year. How much confidence do you have in the GM to find useful veteran pieces at the trade deadline?

I think we all know the answer to that one but just don't want to admit it. ?

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

Sign a good 2B and make Balta the manager, this team wins nearly 110 games

Do you think the White Sox are way less talented than the Astros? I think they got stomped because of poor coaching and preparation. If you think the elite teams are way more talented than the white Sox, then you are telling me they’re not that far above the rest of the division. 

I think they have a clear talent advantage but a clear organizational disadvantage. That means for me, I think they need every scrap of talent they can get to overcome it.

Id be ok with Romy in a Leury role and I’m sure there’s at bats for him in that role if he earns it, but it’s not worth risking the whole season results on him being more.

[35thstreetswarm]

18 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

If they sign a big RF, I could be fine with Romy/Leury at 2B.  If it doesn't work, you just trade for Hernandez at the deadline again LOLL

Yes, and ditto for the reverse--if they sign a big 2B (Semien) they can make do with in-house options in RF.  I hope they just focus on one big addition rather than getting cute with two middling additions.

[ron883]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Do you think the White Sox are way less talented than the Astros? I think they got stomped because of poor coaching and preparation. If you think the elite teams are way more talented than the white Sox, then you are telling me they’re not that far above the rest of the division. 

I think they have a clear talent advantage but a clear organizational disadvantage. That means for me, I think they need every scrap of talent they can get to overcome it.

Id be ok with Romy in a Leury role and I’m sure there’s at bats for him in that role if he earns it, but it’s not worth risking the whole season results on him being more.

The Sox pitching sucked and their hitting sucked. That's why they lost. A 5-game series can go either way. 

[bmags]

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Willing to bet the AL Central on it?

Yes, should not be hard to add a reasonable 2b at the deadline. The 2b additions did reasonably well

Using OPS+ since fangraphs maddeningly never splits out team additions like baseball ref does

Harrison on As - 79

Escobar on Brewers - 113

Turner on Dodgers - 152

Schoop (unmoved) - 95 ( ish)

Iglesias on Red Sox - 142

Baez on Mets - 141

Frazier on Padres - 86

Story (unmoved) - 120 (ish)

Hernandez on White Sox - 69 (nice)

Red sox acquired Schwarber (154 OPS+) for their 19th ranked relief prospect and picked up Iglesias off of waivers. Better scouting is needed, but how much are we willing to pay? The true upgrades will require substantial cost. If they go for a top guy like Semien, I'm all ears. But if you were to throw a bucket of escobar, leury, iglesias, galvis, etc in a bowl, I wouldn't say with certainty anyone provides meaningful upgrades over what the sox got out of Leury this year. And I think it's reasonable Romy could pace that on 550k. And if he doesn't, go trade for Jose Iglesias again, nobody seems to want his very good production plus defense ever.

 

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yes, should not be hard to add a reasonable 2b at the deadline. The 2b additions did reasonably well

Using OPS+ since fangraphs maddeningly never splits out team additions like baseball ref does

Harrison on As - 79

Escobar on Brewers - 113

Turner on Dodgers - 152

Schoop (unmoved) - 95 ( ish)

Iglesias on Red Sox - 142

Baez on Mets - 141

Frazier on Padres - 86

Story (unmoved) - 120 (ish)

Hernandez on White Sox - 69 (nice)

Red sox acquired Schwarber (154 OPS+) for their 19th ranked relief prospect and picked up Iglesias off of waivers. Better scouting is needed, but how much are we willing to pay? The true upgrades will require substantial cost. If they go for a top guy like Semien, I'm all ears. But if you were to throw a bucket of escobar, leury, iglesias, galvis, etc in a bowl, I wouldn't say with certainty anyone provides meaningful upgrades over what the sox got out of Leury this year. And I think it's reasonable Romy could pace that on 550k. And if he doesn't, go trade for Jose Iglesias again, nobody seems to want his very good production plus defense ever.

 

Jose Iglesias played 23 games, had 64 PAs, and a .408 Babip with Boston. I’d say that’s not exactly fair to count at the same level As the other guys.

Out of the lower priced guys, you had Escobar who was good, Harrison, Frazier, and Hernandez who appear below average, and then the two legit talents in Turner and Baez. So either it’s actually pay for a top flight guy or a 1/4 chance of a quality regular?

[joejoesox]

18 minutes ago, ron883 said:

The Sox pitching sucked and their hitting sucked. That's why they lost. A 5-game series can go either way. 

Funny how the 5 game series (which ended in 4 games) went nearly identical to the regular season series vs the same opponent

organizationally, the Sox aren't even in the same league as teams like Houston/TB, and even Boston/NYY, and they never will be because nepotism reigns in Chicago. the one team that cleaned house from top to bottom won the most recent championship, that wasn't a fluke

[bmags]

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Jose Iglesias played 23 games, had 64 PAs, and a .408 Babip with Boston. I’d say that’s not exactly fair to count at the same level As the other guys.

Out of the lower priced guys, you had Escobar who was good, Harrison, Frazier, and Hernandez who appear below average, and then the two legit talents in Turner and Baez. So either it’s actually pay for a top flight guy or a 1/4 chance of a quality regular?

9 2b being available at the trade deadline is more than any other position save RP, and whatever odds you are discussing aren't any better in Free Agency or trade currently, so going to bat for a promising 2b prospect who showed versatility and power makes sense when money is valuable.

[Tony]

39 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Do you think the White Sox are way less talented than the Astros? I think they got stomped because of poor coaching and preparation. If you think the elite teams are way more talented than the white Sox, then you are telling me they’re not that far above the rest of the division. 

I think they have a clear talent advantage but a clear organizational disadvantage. That means for me, I think they need every scrap of talent they can get to overcome it.

Id be ok with Romy in a Leury role and I’m sure there’s at bats for him in that role if he earns it, but it’s not worth risking the whole season results on him being more.

This is bananas in my opinion. The starters ERA in the series was over 10. You're saying AJ Hinch lowers that by 5, 6 runs? 

I just don't buy it. 

[bmags]

I do think there is quite a bit more juice to squeeze out of the talent of this roster through player development and coaching. 

The sox have really leaned into some volatile players and played into their strengths and lived with their weaknesses. But now we see how magnified some of these weaknesses can become. Especially the wildness when we face more disciplined teams. For pitching though, I think we do need to diversify with some different pitcher types. I hope players like Marshall bounce back, because we miss some different look guys, but we had so few that could throw a damn strike. Thank goodness for Tepera. Pretty much every team in the playoffs has the discipline to say "okay we'll be able to hold off on your off speed and go after fastballs" and the velo did nothing. When they sat fastball they could hit it.

But with hitting...there is no way some of these players need to be as GB heavy as they are. I think with TIm...he probably will be. But anyone else...sox need to help them. I don't think we need to bring in hitters specifically who elevate, but if the sox think they need to bring in josh donaldson to teach our hitters how to...then what are we doing here.

[Dick Allen]

Funny thing is if the Sox had April/May Rodon, they have a chance to win the series. Gio usually dominates Houston, and had really good stuff, he just was too cute and walked too many. As handily as the Sox got beat, they werent  that far from being the better team. Of course, scoring more than 1 run a game helps .

Edited October 19, 2021 by Dick Allen

[reiks12]

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

But with hitting...there is no way some of these players need to be as GB heavy as they are. I think with TIm...he probably will be. But anyone else...sox need to help them. I don't think we need to bring in hitters specifically who elevate, but if the sox think they need to bring in josh donaldson to teach our hitters how to...then what are we doing here.

I don't understand how the FO doesn't look at what the SF Giants did this season (Crawford, Posey, Belt, Ruf, Longoria, all aged 34+ having career years) and not be motivated to revamp the heavy GB strategy. The outline is right there. Contact is great and all, but when its garbage contact and into the dirt it doesn't help much. Good job on the increased BB% this season, but when you rank 27 in GDP and you arent hitting home runs or extra base hits then what are you hoping to accomplish? 17(?) singles before an XBH in the playoffs. We hit half of our balls in play at home on the ground. AT HOME! One of the best parks for home runs in the game.

 

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

I don't understand how the FO doesn't look at what the SF Giants did this season (Crawford, Posey, Belt, Ruf, Longoria, all aged 34+ having career years) and not be motivated to revamp the heavy GB strategy. The outline is right there. Contact is great and all, but when its garbage contact and into the dirt it doesn't help much. Good job on the increased BB% this season, but when you rank 27 in GDP and you arent hitting home runs or extra base hits then what are you hoping to accomplish? 17(?) singles before an XBH in the playoffs. We hit half of our balls in play at home on the ground. AT HOME! One of the best parks for home runs in the game.

 

Yes, Zaidi is clearly very good at PD. If you aren't imitating him, you should be less confident.

The stuff on their batting practice vs heavy sliders instead of cookie fastballs is not groundbreaking but something this team especially needs to find new ways to work in. It feels like all of our hitters have gravitated to the same place.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Big fan. Power and speed combo who plays CF and SS. I'd still add a 2B but he should be on the team for sure. I'd like for him to be the new Leury Garcia 

Exactly.  Romy hit fairly well against RHP at Birmingham, but no way do I hand him an everyday job right now.  He should be the new utility guy who can cover a variety of positions and provide valuable depth.  At some point an opportunity will present itself and make him take advantage of that before giving him an everyday role.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

This is bananas in my opinion. The starters ERA in the series was over 10. You're saying AJ Hinch lowers that by 5, 6 runs? 

I just don't buy it. 

Yes, I would say that is entirely possible. They gave up 14 runs, can they cut that in half? Let's look at the numbers and all the red flags.

First and foremost, the White Sox's strategy coming into this series was to be extremely well rested, and they were willing to sacrifice seeding and matchups for it. This strategy did not work. Despite their guys being better rested, they were outperformed in every aspect of the game - pitching, hitting, and defense, and teams that did not have the last 2 months to coast are still playing in the postseason. This should absolutely call into question the strategy of trying to be the best rested team rather than pushing harder for seeding down the stretch. Is it a coincidence that pitchers who got extra rest and fewer innings down the stretch struggled to find the strike zone, or was that rust? There's an old joke in some other fields that a strategy "Cannot fail, it can only be failed" - resting guys extra down the stretch shouldn't be some topic that we can never question when we just watched it not work.

Second, Giolito and Rodon gave up 4 runs on red flag plays. Giolito should not have been allowed to get in trouble once it got to the 5th inning, he was pulled at least 1 batter too late, and that was a concern. Worse, no one has said that "Bringing in Crochet on a back to back outing" was a good idea, literally everyone assumed he was unavailable after pitching the night before, and some people said it was a shame to use him in a game that was out of reach since it meant he couldn't pitch in game 2. Could that knock 2 runs off? Similarly, Rodon gave everything he had through the Alvarez at bat, and when he tried to throw a high fastball by Correa on the third pitch, he couldn't get it high or hard enough. Yes, pitch calling there was confusing, but overall Rodon should not have been in that game at that point. The rule for both of those guys should have been "Empty the tank, and we will not let you lose this game". That's potentially 4 runs.

Finally, Lance Lynn should not have pitched on the road in Houston. This was the most obvious red flag coming into this series, it was obvious after his outing in June. Whether that means moving him to game 3 or actually going for Home Field Advantage, he had a career ERA over 5 in Houston and an ERA in the low 3s against the same team at home. Furthermore, Lynn himself complained afterwards about the game plan, which involved him throwing like Lance Lynn always does against a team that hits fastballs well. Could that cut a couple runs off what Lynn gave up, or gotten a few more innings out of him? I fully believe he has a better game if he pitched at home, and it sure seems like changing something up against this team would have benefited him.

Cutting 6 or 7 runs off what they gave up - certainly possible, and that's without considering other things like defensive positioning, which we also saw to be important. Every one of those had a red flag saying "do not let this guy lose this way", and that's exactly how they lost. There are other confusing moves throughout this series - having Kopech come into game 4 less than 48 hours after he threw a 50 pitch outing still seems inexplicably bizarre.

The 2 pitchers I'm ok with criticizing and saying "They needed to be better" are Cease and Kimbrel. Even though Kimbrel got hurt by the coaching staff also by moving Leury to RF, both of those guys were put out there in situations where they needed to be better and they weren't. 

[35thstreetswarm]

2 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

Funny how the 5 game series (which ended in 4 games) went nearly identical to the regular season series vs the same opponent

organizationally, the Sox aren't even in the same league as teams like Houston/TB, and even Boston/NYY, and they never will be because nepotism reigns in Chicago. the one team that cleaned house from top to bottom won the most recent championship, that wasn't a fluke

So we would’ve beaten the Red Sox, I guess, based on the regular season?  Let me guess, regular season only counts where we lost.

Edited October 19, 2021 by 35thstreetswarm

[Dick Allen]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, I would say that is entirely possible. They gave up 14 runs, can they cut that in half? Let's look at the numbers and all the red flags.

First and foremost, the White Sox's strategy coming into this series was to be extremely well rested, and they were willing to sacrifice seeding and matchups for it. This strategy did not work. Despite their guys being better rested, they were outperformed in every aspect of the game - pitching, hitting, and defense, and teams that did not have the last 2 months to coast are still playing in the postseason. This should absolutely call into question the strategy of trying to be the best rested team rather than pushing harder for seeding down the stretch. Is it a coincidence that pitchers who got extra rest and fewer innings down the stretch struggled to find the strike zone, or was that rust? There's an old joke in some other fields that a strategy "Cannot fail, it can only be failed" - resting guys extra down the stretch shouldn't be some topic that we can never question when we just watched it not work.

Second, Giolito and Rodon gave up 4 runs on red flag plays. Giolito should not have been allowed to get in trouble once it got to the 5th inning, he was pulled at least 1 batter too late, and that was a concern. Worse, no one has said that "Bringing in Crochet on a back to back outing" was a good idea, literally everyone assumed he was unavailable after pitching the night before, and some people said it was a shame to use him in a game that was out of reach since it meant he couldn't pitch in game 2. Could that knock 2 runs off? Similarly, Rodon gave everything he had through the Alvarez at bat, and when he tried to throw a high fastball by Correa on the third pitch, he couldn't get it high or hard enough. Yes, pitch calling there was confusing, but overall Rodon should not have been in that game at that point. The rule for both of those guys should have been "Empty the tank, and we will not let you lose this game". That's potentially 4 runs.

Finally, Lance Lynn should not have pitched on the road in Houston. This was the most obvious red flag coming into this series, it was obvious after his outing in June. Whether that means moving him to game 3 or actually going for Home Field Advantage, he had a career ERA over 5 in Houston and an ERA in the low 3s against the same team at home. Furthermore, Lynn himself complained afterwards about the game plan, which involved him throwing like Lance Lynn always does against a team that hits fastballs well. Could that cut a couple runs off what Lynn gave up, or gotten a few more innings out of him? I fully believe he has a better game if he pitched at home, and it sure seems like changing something up against this team would have benefited him.

Cutting 6 or 7 runs off what they gave up - certainly possible, and that's without considering other things like defensive positioning, which we also saw to be important. Every one of those had a red flag saying "do not let this guy lose this way", and that's exactly how they lost. There are other confusing moves throughout this series - having Kopech come into game 4 less than 48 hours after he threw a 50 pitch outing still seems inexplicably bizarre.

The 2 pitchers I'm ok with criticizing and saying "They needed to be better" are Cease and Kimbrel. Even though Kimbrel got hurt by the coaching staff also by moving Leury to RF, both of those guys were put out there in situations where they needed to be better and they weren't. 

This is all fine and dandy, the problem is, the replacement for the pitching mistakes, as it turns out, weren't better performers. Crochet and Kopech were bad, every Sox starting pitcher was bad. 

[kleedawg]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes, I would say that is entirely possible. They gave up 14 runs, can they cut that in half? Let's look at the numbers and all the red flags.

First and foremost, the White Sox's strategy coming into this series was to be extremely well rested, and they were willing to sacrifice seeding and matchups for it. This strategy did not work. Despite their guys being better rested, they were outperformed in every aspect of the game - pitching, hitting, and defense, and teams that did not have the last 2 months to coast are still playing in the postseason. This should absolutely call into question the strategy of trying to be the best rested team rather than pushing harder for seeding down the stretch. Is it a coincidence that pitchers who got extra rest and fewer innings down the stretch struggled to find the strike zone, or was that rust? There's an old joke in some other fields that a strategy "Cannot fail, it can only be failed" - resting guys extra down the stretch shouldn't be some topic that we can never question when we just watched it not work.

Second, Giolito and Rodon gave up 4 runs on red flag plays. Giolito should not have been allowed to get in trouble once it got to the 5th inning, he was pulled at least 1 batter too late, and that was a concern. Worse, no one has said that "Bringing in Crochet on a back to back outing" was a good idea, literally everyone assumed he was unavailable after pitching the night before, and some people said it was a shame to use him in a game that was out of reach since it meant he couldn't pitch in game 2. Could that knock 2 runs off? Similarly, Rodon gave everything he had through the Alvarez at bat, and when he tried to throw a high fastball by Correa on the third pitch, he couldn't get it high or hard enough. Yes, pitch calling there was confusing, but overall Rodon should not have been in that game at that point. The rule for both of those guys should have been "Empty the tank, and we will not let you lose this game". That's potentially 4 runs.

Finally, Lance Lynn should not have pitched on the road in Houston. This was the most obvious red flag coming into this series, it was obvious after his outing in June. Whether that means moving him to game 3 or actually going for Home Field Advantage, he had a career ERA over 5 in Houston and an ERA in the low 3s against the same team at home. Furthermore, Lynn himself complained afterwards about the game plan, which involved him throwing like Lance Lynn always does against a team that hits fastballs well. Could that cut a couple runs off what Lynn gave up, or gotten a few more innings out of him? I fully believe he has a better game if he pitched at home, and it sure seems like changing something up against this team would have benefited him.

Cutting 6 or 7 runs off what they gave up - certainly possible, and that's without considering other things like defensive positioning, which we also saw to be important. Every one of those had a red flag saying "do not let this guy lose this way", and that's exactly how they lost. There are other confusing moves throughout this series - having Kopech come into game 4 less than 48 hours after he threw a 50 pitch outing still seems inexplicably bizarre.

The 2 pitchers I'm ok with criticizing and saying "They needed to be better" are Cease and Kimbrel. Even though Kimbrel got hurt by the coaching staff also by moving Leury to RF, both of those guys were put out there in situations where they needed to be better and they weren't. 

Can we stop with this false narrative that we lost HFA because we "rested" players. We didn't rest players, we gave them time off because they were injured. TA tweaked a hamstring, Yaz was coming back from knee surgery, Lance hurt his knee, Lucas tweaked a hamstring, Rodon had shoulder soreness. 

If we played them everyday without time off we may have finished a better record than the astros, but TA & Lucas may have then tore hamstrings. Rodon may have blew out his shoulder etc, 

Would we have been better with HFA and mendick playing short with Keuchel, Lambert, & Lopez starting in place of Lynn, Rodon, & Giolitto, Collins catching? 

LaRussa has a lot to be criticized for (such as the aforementioned use of crochet 2 days in a row when bummer was available) , but he did the prudent thing here. It cost us HFA, but still gave us the best chance to win with everyone being available. 

But, i'm sure if he went with the everyday approach so many here are espousing and those injuries did occur that ended their season you wouldn't be bitching at all of the mis-managemnet of injuries would you?

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

This is all fine and dandy, the problem is, the replacement for the pitching mistakes, as it turns out, weren't better performers. Crochet and Kopech were bad, every Sox starting pitcher was bad. 

Again, to repeat...Garret Crochet pitched 2 times in back to back outings the entire season and gave up runs both times. His 3rd back to back outing was in game 2, and he allowed 2 inherited runners to score. That should not have been surprising at all. 

Michael Kopech threw 47 pitches in game 3. Tony LaRussa himself said before the game that he was unavailable for game 4, and then somehow he was the first guy out of the bullpen 44 hours later, and expected to get a guy out, go back to the bench, and then come out for a second inning? All season, he never had fewer than 2 full days off after any 30+ pitch outing. He had literally never been pushed that aggressively all season. That was also his second longest outing since his injury, next to the 51 pitches he threw on the final game of the season.

You cannot blame these guys for failing when they are used like this, in ways they either did not prepare for all year or in ways they struggled in during rare opportunities during the regular season.

 

[Dick Allen]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Again, to repeat...Garret Crochet pitched 2 times in back to back outings the entire season and gave up runs both times. His 3rd back to back outing was in game 2, and he allowed 2 inherited runners to score. That should not have been surprising at all. 

Michael Kopech threw 47 pitches in game 3. Tony LaRussa himself said before the game that he was unavailable for game 4, and then somehow he was the first guy out of the bullpen 44 hours later, and expected to get a guy out, go back to the bench, and then come out for a second inning? All season, he never had fewer than 2 full days off after any 30+ pitch outing. He had literally never been pushed that aggressively all season. That was also his second longest outing since his injury, next to the 51 pitches he threw on the final game of the season.

You cannot blame these guys for failing when they are used like this, in ways they either did not prepare for all year or in ways they struggled in during rare opportunities during the regular season.

 

Kopech wasn't exactly stellar when he gave up runs the day before. Crochet wasn't stellar when he had the rest, and you still have no answer for who would have shut down the Astros in Lynn's start, although that was stupid, all the moves were stupid, I will grant you that. And if Giolito had pitched the opener which is usually reserved for your top guy, which he is, and someone who was stellar against said opponent, 18 iP 7 hits, he was, Gio, with the rainout, could have pitched game 4. But who really knows how he would have done? So, while just about every pitching button Tony pushed, blew up in his face, it is hard to imagine these same guys actually having success in the same games if used differently. We will never know, because who really knows how a game would have turned out if things were a little tighter. It more than likely wouldn't have gone the exact same way it went.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Dick Allen

[Tony]

37 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Kopech wasn't exactly stellar when he gave up runs the day before. Crochet wasn't stellar when he had the rest, and you still have no answer for who would have shut down the Astros in Lynn's start, although that was stupid, all the moves were stupid, I will grant you that. And if Giolito had pitched the opener which is usually reserved for your top guy, which he is, and someone who was stellar against said opponent, 18 iP 7 hits, he was, Gio, with the rainout, could have pitched game 4. But who really knows how he would have done? So, while just about every pitching button Tony pushed, blew up in his face, it is hard to imagine these same guys actually having success in the same games if used differently. We will never know, because who really knows how a game would have turned out if things were a little tighter. It more than likely wouldn't have gone the exact same way it went.

Additionally, @Balta1701 is using a premise that with a different manager, every button would have been pushed correctly. That doesn't happen with any manager, ever. 

Coaching staffs can make an impact for teams, no question. The idea that a starting pitching staff put up an ERA collectively over 10 would be cut in half (or more) simply with different coaching is ludicrous to me. Players need to be held far more accountable for their performances on the field. TLR didn't ask Lynn to throw with his left hand. Yes, the Astros were a bad matchup...but tough shit. It's the playoffs. 

This is coming from a guy that hated the TLR hire and still hates it. But LaRussa wasn't the main issue in the playoffs. The players on the field were. 

[Chisoxfn]

Bottom line - the team didn't play good enough. They actually hit for a high average - but couldn't hit with enough power/get big hit when it mattered. Bullpen was a train wreck and starting rotation didn't deliver.  They were on the cusp and not near a bad as the series indicated but the horses that they saw all season didn't show up against the Astros, who were hot.  

Astros on the other hand had 2 electric starts from there ace and a TON of timely hits and played great defense.  Everything exasperated things but I wouldn't go as far as saying if you played those series another 5 times that the Sox lose 5 of them...maybe Houston takes 3 and the Sox take 2.  Bottom line - guys didn't show up. It happens and the team needs to learn from this with the good news being the roster still has a ton of talent, many of which is still trending in the "up" direction vs. stable or down. There will obviously be losses too...ROdon was amazing and he wont' replicate but I'd also bet Keuchel isn't as bad either and having Robert/Eloy hopefully healthy is a big boost too.  

I'm excited for next year and curious to see what moves they actually do make.  Still hate the Kimbrel move but whatever, teams will make bad moves and that doesn't take away from how good this team is and that they absolutely should contend again.  

[Tony]

16 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Bottom line - the team didn't play good enough. They actually hit for a high average - but couldn't hit with enough power/get big hit when it mattered. Bullpen was a train wreck and starting rotation didn't deliver.  They were on the cusp and not near a bad as the series indicated but the horses that they saw all season didn't show up against the Astros, who were hot.  

Astros on the other hand had 2 electric starts from there ace and a TON of timely hits and played great defense.  Everything exasperated things but I wouldn't go as far as saying if you played those series another 5 times that the Sox lose 5 of them...maybe Houston takes 3 and the Sox take 2.  Bottom line - guys didn't show up. It happens and the team needs to learn from this with the good news being the roster still has a ton of talent, many of which is still trending in the "up" direction vs. stable or down. There will obviously be losses too...ROdon was amazing and he wont' replicate but I'd also bet Keuchel isn't as bad either and having Robert/Eloy hopefully healthy is a big boost too.  

I'm excited for next year and curious to see what moves they actually do make.  Still hate the Kimbrel move but whatever, teams will make bad moves and that doesn't take away from how good this team is and that they absolutely should contend again.  

Well said. We are in rare times when the Sox make the playoffs, lose, and we're still all very hopeful for the future. 

They just need to continue being aggressive and improving. 

[ChiSox59]

16 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Bottom line - the team didn't play good enough. They actually hit for a high average - but couldn't hit with enough power/get big hit when it mattered. Bullpen was a train wreck and starting rotation didn't deliver.  They were on the cusp and not near a bad as the series indicated but the horses that they saw all season didn't show up against the Astros, who were hot.  

Astros on the other hand had 2 electric starts from there ace and a TON of timely hits and played great defense.  Everything exasperated things but I wouldn't go as far as saying if you played those series another 5 times that the Sox lose 5 of them...maybe Houston takes 3 and the Sox take 2.  Bottom line - guys didn't show up. It happens and the team needs to learn from this with the good news being the roster still has a ton of talent, many of which is still trending in the "up" direction vs. stable or down. There will obviously be losses too...ROdon was amazing and he wont' replicate but I'd also bet Keuchel isn't as bad either and having Robert/Eloy hopefully healthy is a big boost too.  

I'm excited for next year and curious to see what moves they actually do make.  Still hate the Kimbrel move but whatever, teams will make bad moves and that doesn't take away from how good this team is and that they absolutely should contend again.  

This is a good post.