Chicago White Sox Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Let's see what performance we get out of Grandal during the next two seasons, when he's going to be critical to the team's success in the post-season... Considering we have nearly a decade of moves to look at now with Rick Hahn, I would hardly define that signing as an unparalleled success, especially if you consider what happened against the Astros, and the fact that the Dodgers refused to rely on him defensively when he was even younger. Catchers are not meant to maintain their level of play into their mid-30's unless they switch to 1B/DH. Somehow, Sal Perez and Posey managed career resurgences, but I would hardly count on it, anymore than we should expect a Lance Lynn repeat of his 2021 numbers. To me, Grandal and Jose Abreu are quite similar at this stage in their careers. They're not hurting the team, certainly, but they're not generating any surplus value due to their salaries and decline age curves hitting right in the heart of our window. I would give that signing a B/B-, considering the fact that it was the biggest overall contract in the history of the franchise. Is your argument that we have never signed a high profile free agent under Hahn or that Grandal has been a B grade addition? You’re moving the goalposts like crazy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 44 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said: When the Sox pay up for free agents, they typically perform as expected. Their problem has been when they try to take fliers and find “bargains”. I don’t think that was a Hahn problem, I think that had a lot to do with the Sox pro scouting, which for a long period of time was horrendous. They seemed to have gotten better in that department since Nick Hostetler has taken over that post. Fully agree, although I’m pretty sure they made sizable changes into be pro scouting department completely unrelated / before Hostetler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Is your argument that we have never signed a high profile free agent under Hahn or that Grandal has been a B grade addition? You’re moving the goalposts like crazy here. So if you have ten years of position player moves in FA and Yasmani Grandal sticks out as the best, that’s not exactly saying much. Any GM in baseball could have had him for those same terms…but weren’t to do so. The Brewers, for example. got a lot more out of Grandal for just a one year commitment, then Narvaez, Pina, etc., for a fraction of the price. Wouldn’t it be better if we could have developed the full potential of our own players like Semien or Narvaez (or even Collins), rather than trading them off early when they struggle in one area or another? Then we have no option but to try to fix that hole through FA. Even Avi Garcia, we arguably would have been better off retaining him than misallocating for that position since he left the Sox and moved on. Edited October 23, 2021 by caulfield12 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: So if you have ten years of position player moves in FA and Yasmani Grandal sticks out as the best, that’s not exactly saying much. The Brewers, for example. got a lot more out of Grandal for just a one year commitment, then Narvaez, Pina, etc., for a fraction of the price. Wouldn’t it be better if we could have developed the full potential of our own players like Semien or Narvaez (or even Collins), rather than trading them off early when they struggle in one area or another? Then we have no option but to try to fix that hole through FA. Even Avi Garcia, we arguably would have been better off retaining him than misallocating for that position since he left the Sox and moved on. White Sox winning one ALDS game in the playoffs: trash team that can’t compete. Brewers winning one NLDS game: model org to try to live up to 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: So if you have ten years of position player moves in FA and Yasmani Grandal sticks out as the best, that’s not exactly saying much. Any GM in baseball could have had him for those same terms…but weren’t to do so. The Brewers, for example. got a lot more out of Grandal for just a one year commitment, then Narvaez, Pina, etc., for a fraction of the price. Wouldn’t it be better if we could have developed the full potential of our own players like Semien or Narvaez (or even Collins), rather than trading them off early when they struggle in one area or another? Then we have no option but to try to fix that hole through FA. Even Avi Garcia, we arguably would have been better off retaining him than misallocating for that position since he left the Sox and moved on. First off, you’re changing the argument again. You said Hahn couldn’t sign a premier free agent who plays a position and you were wrong. Now you’re going on other tangents, none of which are related to Kimbrel’s option and how it would freeze our offseason. Second, the bold applies to like 95% of free agent signings, so no idea what your point is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 1 minute ago, bmags said: White Sox winning one ALDS game in the playoffs: trash team that can’t compete. Brewers winning one NLDS game: model org to try to live up to Don’t forget Caulfield’s gold standard the Padres who didn’t even make the playoffs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 My guess is they plan on Cespedes being the RF of the future and they will acquire an RF stand-in for RF until he is ready. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said: My guess is they plan on Cespedes being the RF of the future and they will acquire an RF stand-in for RF until he is ready. I can’t see it. I’m probably one of the more optimistic posters here when it comes to Cespedes, but no way he’s shown enough to pass on a long-term solution to RF. IMO, the hope is for him eventually replacing Engel as a 4th OF and if he develops into something more than that then great. But after wasting two playoff seasons with Mazara & Eaton as our starting RFs, no way Hahn goes scrap heat there again. Plus it’s painfully obvious we need better balance in the lineup and RF is one of only two options we have to solve that problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxForce2 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 SIAP https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-arizona-fall-league-overview-2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Ian Happ of the Cubs might be an interesting get. SH w/power from both sides. Career OPS of 805. 25 HRs in '21 and capable of playing 2b and all 3 OF positions. looked as though he had things figured out in 2H last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Flash said: Ian Happ of the Cubs might be an interesting get. SH w/power from both sides. Career OPS of 805. 25 HRs in '21 and capable of playing 2b and all 3 OF positions. looked as though he had things figured out in 2H last year. Possibly. Man we have to get this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, Flash said: Ian Happ of the Cubs might be an interesting get. SH w/power from both sides. Career OPS of 805. 25 HRs in '21 and capable of playing 2b and all 3 OF positions. looked as though he had things figured out in 2H last year. Why didn’t the Cubs move him last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Why didn’t the Cubs move him last year? From Sports Chicago.... 'Happ seemed to be playing himself into a non-tender candidate by late-July — hitting .175 with a sub-.300 on-base percentage and .603 OPS, barely five months after beating the Cubs in arbitration to win a $4.1 million salary. Since then, in his final 60 games, starting July 27, Happ hit .288 with a .938 OPS and 16 of his career-high 25 home runs' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, Flash said: From Sports Chicago.... 'Happ seemed to be playing himself into a non-tender candidate by late-July — hitting .175 with a sub-.300 on-base percentage and .603 OPS, barely five months after beating the Cubs in arbitration to win a $4.1 million salary. Since then, in his final 60 games, starting July 27, Happ hit .288 with a .938 OPS and 16 of his career-high 25 home runs' So the problem is he’s streaky and there’s a risk you buy him and he turns into a “White Sox trade acquisition”, with solid upside? This one is tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Hard to read Cubs plans for '22 but guessing he could be available at a reasonable price. Maybe Burger plus Lambert plus ? You're right about the volitility though although I think he might be coming into his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Flash said: Hard to read Cubs plans for '22 but guessing he could be available at a reasonable price. Maybe Burger plus Lambert plus ? You're right about the volitility though although I think he might be coming into his own. I think I literally have a post saying that he had finally broken out in 2019 somewhere, and his overall performance hasn’t matched that yet, plus 2021 was his first full season in a while. He has 2 years before FA. The Cubs would probably be motivated to move him, but the risk/reward might motivate them to hold off to the trade deadline. This seems like one you try for but I feel like the Cubs will be the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 6 hours ago, bmags said: White Sox winning one ALDS game in the playoffs: trash team that can’t compete. Brewers winning one NLDS game: model org to try to live up to Yes, because the Brewers have obviously not advanced out of the first round of the playoffs…in like forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: First off, you’re changing the argument again. You said Hahn couldn’t sign a premier free agent who plays a position and you were wrong. Now you’re going on other tangents, none of which are related to Kimbrel’s option and how it would freeze our offseason. Second, the bold applies to like 95% of free agent signings, so no idea what your point is there. Fine, you got me, he has signed one position player who worked out “okay/decently,” especially considering his price tag, in a decade. Pretty remarkable stuff. Somehow I image Jason McLeod will get more offers now that he’s leaving the Cubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Yes, because the Brewers have obviously not advanced out of the first round of the playoffs…in like forever. Well moving on from Grandal must have made them advance through playoff rounds right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, bmags said: Well moving on from Grandal must have made them advance through playoff rounds right? The Brewers didn’t even have a $100 million payroll at the beginning of the season…give that front office even another $50 million to get to MLB average and they will be right there. Even the Braves were #12 on Opening Day, $47 million higher…and made a ton of acquisitions at the ASB so they finished in the Top 10. Edited October 24, 2021 by caulfield12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 I just wish we could be cool like the Padres 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 10 hours ago, caulfield12 said: The Brewers didn’t even have a $100 million payroll at the beginning of the season…give that front office even another $50 million to get to MLB average and they will be right there. Even the Braves were #12 on Opening Day, $47 million higher…and made a ton of acquisitions at the ASB so they finished in the Top 10. How come everyone failed except the Braves with Eddie Rosario? How come no Soxtalk expert said the Sox should pick him up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: How come everyone failed except the Braves with Eddie Rosario? How come no Soxtalk expert said the Sox should pick him up? I think there was a group in the off-season that said they should sign another corner OF left handed bat even after they signed Eaton (Schwarber, Rosario, Peterson, etc) so they could have Vaughn start in the minors. Obviously with the injuries, there would have been a path for Vaughn to make the MLB team after a great spring anyway. With how much he ended up sitting at the beginning of the season, I kinda would have preferred him starting in the minors and gaining that extra year of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 13 hours ago, Flash said: Hard to read Cubs plans for '22 but guessing he could be available at a reasonable price. Maybe Burger plus Lambert plus ? You're right about the volitility though although I think he might be coming into his own. That would be a terrible overpay IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankchifan Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 21 hours ago, caulfield12 said: So if you have ten years of position player moves in FA and Yasmani Grandal sticks out as the best, that’s not exactly saying much. Any GM in baseball could have had him for those same terms…but weren’t to do so. The Brewers, for example. got a lot more out of Grandal for just a one year commitment, then Narvaez, Pina, etc., for a fraction of the price. Wouldn’t it be better if we could have developed the full potential of our own players like Semien or Narvaez (or even Collins), rather than trading them off early when they struggle in one area or another? Then we have no option but to try to fix that hole through FA. Even Avi Garcia, we arguably would have been better off retaining him than misallocating for that position since he left the Sox and moved on. We sure could have used Narváez, Semien and Avi this season. They would have covered our weaker spots at defensive catcher, 2B and RF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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