Rick Hahn 2021 End of Season Press Conference

[South Side Hit Men]

39 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Well, this is the kind of issue that probably deserves to be discussed earnestly by itself, rather than cheapened by inclusion among various other baseball personnel moves and conspiracy theories in an ongoing, over-the-top diatribe about a baseball team owner-as-supervillain ("Reinsdorf reveled in it, enjoyed shoving the drunken criminal down the throats of fans, media, and the taxpayers he robs" ?).  I can be concerned about Boston and find the tone of your posts creepy at the same time.

Again, you are more "concerned" about the "tone" of the content, rather than the content. Tisk tisking fans around you for cheering Boston, yet perfectly content spending money on the bread and circuses (assuming you aren't a hog at the trough with free tickets courtesy of taxpayers via the Illinois Sports Facility Authority).

In terms of "supervillian" status, he has reveled in that role for four decades and counting. Unlike other owners with their own warts (Ricketts and the McCaskeys), at least they have the courage to face the fan base and media with Q & A sessions, with Reinsdorf and Wirtz hide behind their paid for media (either in house or favored leak receptacles) and lawyers (Wirtz with RapeGate)

I'm not the one who went on television and instead of celebrating the AL West title, instead used his time to call former employees Caray and Piersall scum. Didn't head collusion with other owners, Jerry was specifically called out in the arbitration rulings. Didn't threaten to move the team or shake down taxpayers to the tune of hundreds of millions. Didn't cancel the 1994, nor attempt to field scab teams in 1995 until Sonia Sotomayor personally b**** slapped him and his puppet Selig. Didn't sign Albert Belle to spite the other owners, and then pull the plug on the season four months later waiving the white flag (and dump Belle the following season) after his spite ran it's course. And that just covers the first decade plus. So yeah, Supervillain is a role Jerry has embraced and reviled in during his time as owner.

[A-Train to 35th]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Well, people like you rather attack those who bring these issues with juvenile taunts rather than address Jerry's collection of criminals and perps. it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Hardly hearing a peep in the news related to the serial child rapist aided and abetted by Rocky Wirtz's organization. When in Big Ten (sic) country.....

10,000 Maniacs is an American alternative rock band that was founded in 1981. They have released nine studio albums, six EPs and five live albums. They achieved their most significant success between 1987 and 1993, when they released four albums that charted in the top 50 in the US: In My Tribe (1987), Blind Man's Zoo (1989), Our Time in Eden (1992) and the live album MTV Unplugged (1993). After the recording but before the release of MTV Unplugged, original lead singer and main songwriter Natalie Merchant left the band to pursue a solo career.

Jeez enough of the Wikipedia copy and paste about bands, this is suppose to be a sports blog.

[bmags]

It's like reading early 2000 forward chain letters

[Dick Allen]

This season did convince me that there are a lot more Sox "fans' who would rather have something to complain about than have the team win. It's in every fanbase, but I think the White Sox have a pretty high number. 

[A-Train to 35th]

5 hours ago, tray said:

Hinch should have been banned from baseball for life for managing a team he knew was cheatiing. That is potentially worse than gambling on baseball. Gambling, if one bets to lose and throws games,  as was the (unproven) allegation in the Black Sox scandal, is worse, but what the Astros did was outrageous. Hinch and Cpra should not be in the league. The investigation into the Astros cheating should have been turned over to the FBI given that  baseball now involves legal gambling  and the implications for that cheating were far greater than they were in 1919. How about all the money law lawfully bet on games by sports betters who had no know;edge that the Astros had a decided edge from cheating? 

LaRussa did as well as any Manager would have given the circumstances - prominent players injured (Robert, Eloy, Madrigal, Grandal), and a pitching staff that under-performed based on expectations. 

That entire episode where LaRussa was upset when Mercedes ignored a take sign to show up an opponent was overblown and people who chided LaRussaa were wrong, dead wrong. Compare what Boston Manager Cora did when Rodriguez mimicked Carlos Correa last night. He . like  LaRussa, did not countenance conduct by a player who took it upon himself to show up the opposition. Mercedes was actually more blatant given his refusal to obey a take sign to embellish his own statistics.

 

 

 

Not a fan of the Tony hire, but I agree with everything you said.  I was done with Tony in the 80's when he revolutionized the game by changing pitchers as often as he did, but it proved to be the standard for all managers until the 3-batter rule was instituted.

Although I wasn't a fan of the 3 batter rule at first, I grew to like it.  While it's tough to watch if your pitchers can't locate the plate, at the same time the pitcher is making million's of dollars and should at least be able to throw strikes.

[A-Train to 35th]

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Again, you are more "concerned" about the "tone" of the content, rather than the content. Tisk tisking fans around you for cheering Boston, yet perfectly content spending money on the bread and circuses (assuming you aren't a hog at the trough with free tickets courtesy of taxpayers via the Illinois Sports Facility Authority).

In terms of "supervillian" status, he has reveled in that role for four decades and counting. Unlike other owners with their own warts (Ricketts and the McCaskeys), at least they have the courage to face the fan base and media with Q & A sessions, with Reinsdorf and Wirtz hide behind their paid for media (either in house or favored leak receptacles) and lawyers (Wirtz with RapeGate)

I'm not the one who went on television and instead of celebrating the AL West title, instead used his time to call former employees Caray and Piersall scum. Didn't head collusion with other owners, Jerry was specifically called out in the arbitration rulings. Didn't threaten to move the team or shake down taxpayers to the tune of hundreds of millions. Didn't cancel the 1994, nor attempt to field scab teams in 1995 until Sonia Sotomayor personally b**** slapped him and his puppet Selig. Didn't sign Albert Belle to spite the other owners, and then pull the plug on the season four months later waiving the white flag (and dump Belle the following season) after his spite ran it's course. And that just covers the first decade plus. So yeah, Supervillain is a role Jerry has embraced and reviled in during his time as owner.

Question, why do you even watch Chicago sports teams if they upset you so much?  Take up gardening, than you can b**** at the weeds.

[Tony]

5 hours ago, tray said:

Hinch should have been banned from baseball for life for managing a team he knew was cheatiing. That is potentially worse than gambling on baseball. Gambling, if one bets to lose and throws games,  as was the (unproven) allegation in the Black Sox scandal, is worse, but what the Astros did was outrageous. Hinch and Cpra should not be in the league. The investigation into the Astros cheating should have been turned over to the FBI given that  baseball now involves legal gambling  and the implications for that cheating were far greater than they were in 1919. How about all the money law lawfully bet on games by sports betters who had no know;edge that the Astros had a decided edge from cheating? 

LaRussa did as well as any Manager would have given the circumstances - prominent players injured (Robert, Eloy, Madrigal, Grandal), and a pitching staff that under-performed based on expectations. 

That entire episode where LaRussa was upset when Mercedes ignored a take sign to show up an opponent was overblown and people who chided LaRussaa were wrong, dead wrong. Compare what Boston Manager Cora did when Rodriguez mimicked Carlos Correa last night. He . like  LaRussa, did not countenance conduct by a player who took it upon himself to show up the opposition. Mercedes was actually more blatant given his refusal to obey a take sign to embellish his own statistics.

 

 

 

Interesting. 

https://elitesportsny.com/2020/01/17/jack-mcdowell-says-the-chicago-white-sox-cheated-in-the-1980s/

 

[35thstreetswarm]

25 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Question, why do you even watch Chicago sports teams if they upset you so much?  Take up gardening, than you can b**** at the weeds.

Or perhaps beekeeping.  You could start a pretty good hive with just the ones in your bonnet

[A-Train to 35th]

47 minutes ago, Tony said:

Interesting. 

https://elitesportsny.com/2020/01/17/jack-mcdowell-says-the-chicago-white-sox-cheated-in-the-1980s/

 

Tony La Russa last managed the White Sox in 1986, Jack Mcdowell came in 1987.  Did he have a way-back machine that transported him back onto the team in 1986 or does Jack have sour grapes.

[Tony]

1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Tony La Russa last managed the White Sox in 1986, Jack Mcdowell came in 1987.  Did he have a way-back machine that transported him back onto the team in 1986 or does Jack have sour grapes.

I don't know what really happened. I also don't really care (this isn't a shot at you, you're point is valid)

But if @tray believes the Astros cheating is that severe, I'd have serious pause giving my support to Tony La Russa, who has allegations of cheating against him from former MLB players (not to mention the juice heads out in Oakland, but that's a different issue) 

 

[A-Train to 35th]

47 minutes ago, Tony said:

I don't know what really happened. I also don't really care (this isn't a shot at you, you're point is valid)

But if @tray believes the Astros cheating is that severe, I'd have serious pause giving my support to Tony La Russa, who has allegations of cheating against him from former MLB players (not to mention the juice heads out in Oakland, but that's a different issue) 

 

Tony should have stayed retired but I really didn't want HInch, If Bochy was available then it was a mistake not to go after him.  I don't believe Bochy was available or maybe he didn't want the Sox.  Let's see if Bochy is interested in managing the Cardinals because that job would be more attractive to him than the Sox job was.He has managed in the NL for 25 years on the west coast (12 years with the Padres and 13 years with the Giant's) so I really don't think he was interested in the Chicago White Sox even if the job was never offered.  So I go back to my original question which only had 1 reply of Ozzie.  Since Hinch is a cheater and the fan base would have gone nut's had we hired him, and if Bochy was unavailable (hypothetically without knowledge of this fact), who besides Tony was available?  Or is Ozzie the consensus?

[Jerksticks]

9 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Tony should have stayed retired but I really didn't want HInch, If Bochy was available then it was a mistake not to go after him.  I don't believe Bochy was available or maybe he didn't want the Sox.  Let's see if Bochy is interested in managing the Cardinals because that job would be more attractive to him than the Sox job was.He has managed in the NL for 25 years on the west coast (12 years with the Padres and 13 years with the Giant's) so I really don't think he was interested in the Chicago White Sox even if the job was never offered.  So I go back to my original question which only had 1 reply of Ozzie.  Since Hinch is a cheater and the fan base would have gone nut's had we hired him, and if Bochy was unavailable (hypothetically without knowledge of this fact), who besides Tony was available?  Or is Ozzie the consensus?

Exactly my point this whole time.   The guy they want to manage the white Sox is either being groomed or unavailable or undecided at this point.  
 

People act like the manager of the future HAD to replace Ricky and that’s so fucking dumb.   It’s beyond fucking dumb.   It pains me to read all the LaRussa trashing posts that are made through this extremely myopic lens. 
 

The team didn’t want Hinch obviously and for totally justifiable reasons.  I happen to agree with those reasons.  I wanted Bochy too but maybe he’s done or not interested.  
 

If the guy they wanted wasn’t available…then what was the right move?  A place holder like TLR who has won the big game.  
 

I expect we’ll all be pretty darn happy with the manager they choose in the next year or two.  

[Balta1701]

24 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Tony should have stayed retired but I really didn't want HInch, If Bochy was available then it was a mistake not to go after him.  I don't believe Bochy was available or maybe he didn't want the Sox.  Let's see if Bochy is interested in managing the Cardinals because that job would be more attractive to him than the Sox job was.He has managed in the NL for 25 years on the west coast (12 years with the Padres and 13 years with the Giant's) so I really don't think he was interested in the Chicago White Sox even if the job was never offered.  So I go back to my original question which only had 1 reply of Ozzie.  Since Hinch is a cheater and the fan base would have gone nut's had we hired him, and if Bochy was unavailable (hypothetically without knowledge of this fact), who besides Tony was available?  Or is Ozzie the consensus?

The right answer continues to be “the field”. There are hundreds of bench coaches, pitching coaches, position coaches, minor league coaches in this sport. You can’t interview them all, but there is no reason you can’t interview over a dozen. You will probably get better at the interview each time too! You do that and you find the right balance of attitude, intelligence, experience, and a philosophy that fits with the front office. They shouldn’t agree on everything, but they should come to a fit after a second or third interview. 

Brian Snitker worked his way up through the Braves organization for decades. Kevin Cash retired as a catcher then caught on as Francona’s bullpen coach in Cleveland. AJ Hinch was going to managers meetings before he retired, took over Arizona’s minor league system afterwards (and was there for the Chris Young time), managed the DBacks, was fired, and the Astros found his philosophy to mesh with what they were trying to build a few years later. Alex Cora was a Houston bench coach and now he’s unbeatable in the playoffs. Dave Martinez was a bench coach for so long we wondered why he couldn’t get a job and he finally got one and won the 2019 title. There is no single answer on how to do this correctly.

A White Sox retread with no interview was the only wrong answer. If Hinch came out of an interview process, fine. But ruling out hundreds of people because they aren’t former white Sox managers was and is silly.

[pcq]

If you don't like the owner take a hike. It's his toy. 

[A-Train to 35th]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

The right answer continues to be “the field”. There are hundreds of bench coaches, pitching coaches, position coaches, minor league coaches in this sport. You can’t interview them all, but there is no reason you can’t interview over a dozen. You will probably get better at the interview each time too! You do that and you find the right balance of attitude, intelligence, experience, and a philosophy that fits with the front office. They shouldn’t agree on everything, but they should come to a fit after a second or third interview. 

Brian Snitker worked his way up through the Braves organization for decades. Kevin Cash retired as a catcher then caught on as Francona’s bullpen coach in Cleveland. AJ Hinch was going to managers meetings before he retired, took over Arizona’s minor league system afterwards (and was there for the Chris Young time), managed the DBacks, was fired, and the Astros found his philosophy to mesh with what they were trying to build a few years later. Alex Cora was a Houston bench coach and now he’s unbeatable in the playoffs. Dave Martinez was a bench coach for so long we wondered why he couldn’t get a job and he finally got one and won the 2019 title.

A White Sox retread with no interview was the only wrong answer. If Hinch came out of an interview process, fine. But ruling out hundreds of people because they aren’t former white Sox managers was and is silly.

BINGO!! Great answer, and I too would rather had "the field" than Hinch, Tony, Ozzie, or any other former Sox player the front office could fall back on.  We need new ideas, a new way of doing things and signing an experienced coach or one with a fresh set of ideas would have been the way to go.  Now if we can only get rid of Jerry, Kenny, and all the other former Sox player/coaches. 

[southsider2k5]

26 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Exactly my point this whole time.   The guy they want to manage the white Sox is either being groomed or unavailable or undecided at this point.  
 

People act like the manager of the future HAD to replace Ricky and that’s so fucking dumb.   It’s beyond fucking dumb.   It pains me to read all the LaRussa trashing posts that are made through this extremely myopic lens. 
 

The team didn’t want Hinch obviously and for totally justifiable reasons.  I happen to agree with those reasons.  I wanted Bochy too but maybe he’s done or not interested.  
 

If the guy they wanted wasn’t available…then what was the right move?  A place holder like TLR who has won the big game.  
 

I expect we’ll all be pretty darn happy with the manager they choose in the next year or two.  

Go back and listen to Rick Hahn after he fired RR and tell me again what "the team" wanted. This was all Jerry. That's been obvious since the first rumor popped.

[A-Train to 35th]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Go back and listen to Rick Hahn after he fired RR and tell me again what "the team" wanted. This was all Jerry. That's been obvious since the first rumor popped.

Absolutely it was all Jerry, who I believe was afraid of the fallout if Hahn hired his man Hinch.  Talk about an oxymoron by instead hiring Tony with his two DUI's,  but this is also on Hahn who I believe came to the Hinch conclusion too soon instead of taking the time to interview the field as Balta1701 said earlier.

[35thstreetswarm]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

I don't know what really happened. I also don't really care (this isn't a shot at you, you're point is valid)

But if @tray believes the Astros cheating is that severe, I'd have serious pause giving my support to Tony La Russa, who has allegations of cheating against him from former MLB players (not to mention the juice heads out in Oakland, but that's a different issue) 

 

A largely dismissed allegation from a single player who was not even on the team at the time is a far cry from a well-researched and officially documented investigation by MLB finding systemic cheating by an entire organization.  I totally agree that it was outrageous and the punishment not nearly severe enough.  I would have hated a Hinch hire.

[Texsox]

So your star players all publicly support the manager. Do you make a change? Throughout his career, guys seem to like to play for him. I guess I’m just tired of being unhappy with Sox managers going back to the quitter Ozzie days. 

[A-Train to 35th]

18 minutes ago, Texsox said:

So your star players all publicly support the manager. Do you make a change? Throughout his career, guys seem to like to play for him. I guess I’m just tired of being unhappy with Sox managers going back to the quitter Ozzie days. 

It's too late for a change at this point, let Tony have at it one more year, only because that's the reality.  Now if they don't make the ALCS then I yes would make a change. They all supported and said the same thing after Ricky's last season, what do you expect them to say?  "I hate playing for my manager" who BTW has a three year contract.  Not saying the team didn't come together under Tony, but I wouldn't take what players say about their manager at the end of a season when a reporter ask's the question. 

[Texsox]

2 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

It's too late for a change at this point, let Tony have at it one more year, only because that's the reality.  Now if they don't make the ALCS then I yes would make a change. They all supported and said the same thing after Ricky's last season, what do you expect them to say?  "I hate playing for my manager" who BTW has a three year contract.  Not saying the team didn't come together under Tony, but I wouldn't take what players say about their manager at the end of a season when a reporter ask's the question. 

Will you take the opinion of posters on a message board that players don’t want to play for him? 

[A-Train to 35th]

26 minutes ago, Texsox said:

So your star players all publicly support the manager. Do you make a change? Throughout his career, guys seem to like to play for him. I guess I’m just tired of being unhappy with Sox managers going back to the quitter Ozzie days. 

I go back a little further, I hav't been happy with a White Sox manager since Chuck Tanner 1970-75 or perhaps Jeff Torborg, but other than Ozzie in 2005 all the other's were worthless.

[Texsox]

Just now, A-Train to 35th said:

I go back a little further, I hav't been happy with a White Sox manager since Chuck Tanner 1970-75 or perhaps Jeff Torborg, but other than Ozzie in 2005 all the other's were worthless.

Lots of people disliked Ozzie here even during 2005, especially every Sunday and the month of September. 

[A-Train to 35th]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

Will you take the opinion of posters on a message board that players don’t want to play for him? 

Definitely NOT, sorry.

[A-Train to 35th]

Just now, Texsox said:

Lots of people disliked Ozzie here even during 2005, especially every Sunday and the month of September. 

Lots of people dislike the Manager on this site after practically every game regardless of who the manager is, but every manager on every team makes decision's that the fan base disagrees with.

It's part of being a fan, but it get's taken up a notch on this site with a lot of hate.  Of course we would like to see the same 9 players go out day after day without rest, but it's not sustainable.