What to do with the abreu/vaughn/sheets/burger logjam in 2022?

[hi8is]

I learned at Soxtalk that Eloy is left handed.

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It is funny how many complaints about lack of depth the Sox supposedly had throughout the season when there was a tough stretch with guys banged up. But immediately after the season ends its time to rid the team of any depth it has.

Again, I’d love to have depth in the corners, but how do you address the rest of the roster if we have very little money and a bottom 5 system to work with?  Jake Burger is a luxury we can’t afford to have when we have the holes we currently have.

[Chicago White Sox]

25 minutes ago, SpringfieldFan said:

There is no good answer but I would have to say trade either Abreu or Sheets. Anyone else would be trading low. Sheets is attractive but its based on a small tenure. Abreu is a known quantity and inarguably valuable. He would bring a great return and the time to take advantage is now where he is about to start the downside of his career, and with his GIDP already an issue. He of course will be back as a coach in 10 years anyways.

I don’t think 35 year old Abreu on a 1/$18M deal brings back a great return.   And let’s be honest, there is zero chance the organization moves him.  Reinsdorf loves the dude and he’s simply too important to the clubhouse.

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The more I think about it, the more I dislike the idea of rocking both Eloy & Vaughn in the OF corners.

Not gonna quote your entire post cuz no one needs all that scrolling, but I agree with every point you make. Well said.

[TheTruth05]

Universal DH should have the Sox at the very minimum dangling Eloy/Vaughn

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

Universal DH should have the Sox at the very minimum dangling Eloy/Vaughn

While that might change things somewhat, the calculus with Eloy is still that he was injured for a lot of this year and is regularly an injury concern, he did not perform well this year, and he’s guaranteed $30 million over the next 3 years. If I’m a NL General Manager, I won’t say no to him, but I’m not giving a monster return for a player like that. He has some value, but you’re not getting back a front line starter or anything like that.

[Spumoni]

44 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think 35 year old Abreu on a 1/$18M deal brings back a great return.   And let’s be honest, there is zero chance the organization moves him.  Reinsdorf loves the dude and he’s simply too important to the clubhouse.

Frankly I wouldn’t want it to happen either, especially since you wouldn’t get good value moving him. Guys gonna be a lifer with the org, same as PK.

[Dick Allen]

44 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Again, I’d love to have depth in the corners, but how do you address the rest of the roster if we have very little money and a bottom 5 system to work with?  Jake Burger is a luxury we can’t afford to have when we have the holes we currently have.

You let Hernandez and Kimbrel go. That frees up some cash. The roster is pretty well set.  I am crazy, I still this Eloy is a 40 Homer guy who brings a lot of energy and fun to the team. I still think Vaughn is what one scout described as Paul Konerko on steroids. I still think the best is yet to come from Yoan Moncada. I still think Luis Robert as great as he was wasn't 100 % healthy. I still think TA will be hungrier. I still think Dylan Cease will be a stud. I still think Giolito will be one of the better pitchers in baseball.  I still think Lance Lynn will be Lance Lynn. I still think we are going to love Kopech. I still think Liam Hendriks is the best closer in baseball. Get everyone healthy, find a new 2B and perhaps RF, but I am fine putting Vaughn or Sheets out there and bringing in Engel late,spend the Kimbrel money on another pitcher or two, maybe trade Collins. Get a veteran back up who calls a good game. They are fairly cheap. I am not historically optimistic,  but despite the playoff result, this team is pretty stacked. Some of the guys should get way better, and there are not a lot of candidates to fall off a cliff. Also make everyone take pilates classes for their hammys.

[black jack]

I'd keep every position player for 22.  Kimbrel can go. 

-Sign a real FA RF

-Burger goes down and have him work on multiple positions (3rd, 2nd, OF)

of- Robert, Eloy, FA, Engel 

if- Yoan, Tim, Cesar, Jose, Mendick/Garcia/cheap vet

C- Yaz, Collins (or cheap vet) 

DH- Sheets 

Jack of all trades- Vaughn 

There's plenty of at bats for Vaughn between 1st, LF, Rf, and DH.  Keep rotating everyone to keep fresh.  

 

Move Jose into a coaching role in 2023 and Vaughn takes over as full time 1st.  

Maybe Burger can play 2nd after a year working on it?  

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by black jack

[Chimpton]

2 hours ago, hi8is said:

I learned at Soxtalk that Eloy is left handed.

Ok I made a mistake!

[bmags]

What is this pro talent for pro talent trade you all have in mind? Or are we just weakening depth so we can have Brad Miller instead of burger (yay?!?!)

[ChiSox59]

Vaughn LF. Eloy DH. Abreu 1B. Sheets bench/occasional starter/injury fill in. Sign a real RF. Completely unconcerned about Burger - he has two option years still - stash him in AAA until needed. 

easy peasy.

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, bmags said:

What is this pro talent for pro talent trade you all have in mind? Or are we just weakening depth so we can have Brad Miller instead of burger (yay?!?!)

For Burger I’d look for a controllable reliever.  The Orioles have a few guys that meet the billing.  Cole Susler is coming off a great year, is controllable for the next four seasons, and will make near the league minimum next year.  The Orioles don’t really have a 3B at the moment and could be super interested in someone like Burger, especially for a 31 year old reliever that doesn’t have a huge track record.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Vaughn LF. Eloy DH. Abreu 1B. Sheets bench/occasional starter/injury fill in. Sign a real RF. Completely unconcerned about Burger - he has two option years still - stash him in AAA until needed. 

easy peasy.

What about 2B, reserve IF, backup C, and the bullpen?  That’s not even to mention a rotation with two question marks and zero depth.  How do you plan address those areas and keep all these corner guys around?  Either you need to spend substantially more than what I’m anticipating or tap into the well and deal from an area of strength.

[Chick Mercedes]

8 hours ago, WBWSF said:

Nobody seems to mention that Eloy was bad offensively the last month of the season. I don't know what happened. He seemed to have lost his power. Was he hurt? I hope he regains his power in 2022. If not, he's not going to help the team much.

hes been opening his shirt lower,  and looks heavier.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Chick Mercedes

[Chick Mercedes]

5 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Which of those players would bring the greatest return if traded?

And which realistically could be traded/ would generate interest?

 

I think you can trade the prospect types for other equal prospect types.  What you don't do is sell low on them  for some mediocre veteran. My God stop that stuff with this franchise. Or you trade Vaughn because you can get full value for him. Trade veterans at full value for once, instead of constantly selling low and losing 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Chick Mercedes

[CentralChamps21]

20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Vaughn LF. Eloy DH. Abreu 1B. Sheets bench/occasional starter/injury fill in. Sign a real RF. Completely unconcerned about Burger - he has two option years still - stash him in AAA until needed. 

easy peasy.

Sheets can't be a bench guy at his age. If he's not starting 5+ times a week, then he needs to be playing every day in AAA.

However, stashing a lefty at AAA so you can shoehorn three high swing and miss, defensively deficient righties into the lineup seems misguided.

I let teams know either Eloy or Vaughn is available, and see which one fetches the best price.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Sheets can't be a bench guy at his age. If he's not starting 5+ times a week, then he needs to be playing every day in AAA.

However, stashing a lefty at AAA so you can shoehorn three high swing and miss, defensively deficient righties into the lineup seems misguided.

I let teams know either Eloy or Vaughn is available, and see which one fetches the best price.

Burger is LH now...?   Or you mean Sheets isn't the same swing and miss, deficiently deficient issue...ala Palka?

[CentralChamps21]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Burger is LH now...?   Or you mean Sheets isn't the same swing and miss, deficiently deficient issue...ala Palka?

Sheets is LH. Try to keep up.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What about 2B, reserve IF, backup C, and the bullpen?  That’s not even to mention a rotation with two question marks and zero depth.  How do you plan address those areas and keep all these corner guys around?  Either you need to spend substantially more than what I’m anticipating or tap into the well and deal from an area of strength.

I answering the question about what you do with with righty bats. Of course we need a 2B, a pen arm or two and ideally a good backup catcher. 

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I answering the question about what you do with with righty bats. Of course we need a 2B, a pen arm or two and ideally a good backup catcher. 

My point is this may come down to an either/or type situation, especially if we want to add an expensive RF like Conforto.  For example, add Conforto at $15M per and bring back Tepera at $6M and we may only have $5M for a 2B, another reliever or two, a backup catcher infield depth, and rotation depth.  Just struggling to see how we round out this roster without moving one of major league bats.  Hopefully I’m wrong here, but I think we’re quickly going to run out of cash this offseason and will need to fill some with cheaper players acquired via trade.

[caulfield12]

43 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Sheets is LH. Try to keep up.

Yes, I know that, the way it was phrased, as if Sheets doesn't have anything in common with those other corner guys' profiles...

Let's just put it in these terms.   Sheets had a nice little run, and they probably don't trade him (because he's still not a guy with MUCH trade value) because they can't be so right-handed.  But they also can't run out two players in the bottom 15-20% of MLB on the corners, either.

Something does have to give.

Put trading Eloy or playing Vaughn only 30-35% of the time doesn't maximize the value of either one of those guys.

 

It's likely that Burger is the one who goes, but that still doesn't "fix" the aforementioned in thread after thread logjams in LF/RF/1B/DH.

You also shouldn't count on Engel/Sheets in RF, but somehow I have a feeling we see that...and one of Vaughn/Jimenez traded.

Vaughn/Sheets platoon just seems like it puts way too much pressure on the pitching staff, to go along with Jimenez on the other side...not to mention stress on Robert as well.

Finally, locking in either Jimenez or Vaughn at DH, you keep Grandal and/or Abreu on the field way too much for players approaching their mid 30's.  Grandal should be DHing quite a bit more with a solid back-up instead of Zavala/Collins types.

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

My point is this may come down to an either/or type situation, especially if we want to add an expensive RF like Conforto.  For example, add Conforto at $15M per and bring back Tepera at $6M and we may only have $5M for a 2B, another reliever or two, a backup catcher infield depth, and rotation depth.  Just struggling to see how we round out this roster without moving one of major league bats.  Hopefully I’m wrong here, but I think we’re quickly going to run out of cash this offseason and will need to fill some with cheaper players acquired via trade.

There's zero point in playing around with fire on a Kimbrel trade when that $16 million would be so much more efficiently allocated  (earlier in the free agency process) to rolling the dice on Conforto.  (Even Rodon accepting the QO is a bit scary at this point...hopefully that's kind of a wink-wink move and Carlos is determined to go out and get a 3 year deal from Boras, somehow.)

And it's not like a 3-4 year Conforto deal doesn't come with significant risk for a mid-market team like the White Sox...on top of the existing ones for Lynn, Grandal, Keuchel, Hendriks, etc.

 

But they simply can't afford to bring Kimbrel back and Hernandez just didn't provide anything remotely similar to the player he was for the Indians, for whatever reason.

Edited October 16, 2021 by caulfield12

[The Mighty Mite]

We need a lefty power hiiting right fielder and I think we should give Sheets a crash course in playing the posistion, whatever happens if he can't hack in right field we still should still keep him as a DH from the left side and also because when Abreu slows down Sheets can take over at first.

Burger is another story, if Yoan wasn't such good third sacker I would put him at second and give the 3B job to Burger but that's not going to happen so maybe one of them gets traded for a second baseman with some pop. It would a no brainer to keep Yoan but I'm disappointed in his production, 14 homers and 61 RBI is not what we traded Sale for.

Edited October 16, 2021 by The Mighty Mite

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

We need a lefty power hiiting right fielder and I think we should give Sheets a crash course in playing the posistion, whatever happens if he can't hack in right field we still should still keep him as a DH from the left side and also because when Abreu ages Sheets can take over at first.

Like Palka and like Vaughn, he just doesn't have the foot speed out there.   He's a lot like his father.  He belongs at 1B/DH.

Rusty Kuntz turned Alex Gordon into a Gold Glove LF, but Gordon has 3X the athletic ability and arm of Sheets.  If they choose to go that path with Sheets/Engel, then they're just saying they're happy to be in the post-season every year but not seriously interested in contending for another World Series title.

For no other reason than because our starting pitching isn't going to be able to replicate what it did in 2021 without divine intervention.  And it's unlikely to be as healthy...despite Lynn and Rodon fading down the stretch, they were both available for the majority of the season.

Edited October 16, 2021 by caulfield12