What to do with the abreu/vaughn/sheets/burger logjam in 2022?

[Thad Bosley]

15 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Steve Stone dissects how good teams like the Astros take advantage of defensive lapses, with comments focused on Eloy and Grandal, including Grandal’s inability to block sliders in the dirt.

He also called out the lack of fundamentals all season, and poor defensive catchers including the backups.

 

It was one of his better interviews, which is saying something because most of them are quite good.

Couple of things that stood out was how he framed how the game of baseball is won 90 feet at a time, meaning the good teams are always getting that extra 90 feet by either taking it on the bases and/or preventing the other team from taking an extra 90 feet.    He pointed out how poor the Sox are with the latter with their poor fundamentals, with either the outfielders constantly missing the cutoff man and the entire current catching staff unable to block balls in the dirt.  

What was particularly striking was his comment that Eloy never hits the cutoff man, that he would be a very rich man if he had a dime for every time he didn’t hit the cutoff man this year.  That blew my mind, I didn’t realize that was going on.  That’s unacceptable at the Major League level.  For me that’s on par with not hustling to first base which many managers will bench players for.  

I love Eloy and want to vomit when I read other posts from people who think he should be traded, but routinely not hitting the cutoff man is something the manager and coaching staff should address head on.  Or maybe the pitchers get in his face as he’s unnecessarily allowing the opposing team to take an extra base.  No way.  No way this should be happening. 

[poppysox]

23 hours ago, NWINFan said:

I am not a big fan of Sheets' swing. Seems slow and loopy. I'm always waiting for him to pop it up on the infield. I wonder if he will ever be a major league hitter.

He has a beautiful swing IMO.  Perhaps it's your TV feed.

[35thstreetswarm]

3 hours ago, flavum said:

Consider this hypothetical…

Throw out the Twins, Royals, Orioles, Rangers, and Angels out of the AL. Sox play the other 9 AL teams 18 games each for 162. What’s their record and where do the finish in the league? Until it’s 90 and they’re one of the top 3, they’ll never get to a World Series. So our 93-win team is ok, but not really a championship quality team yet. 

I assume the rest of the league also plays this schedule in the hypothetical?  

[Boopa1219]

If I’m running the team, I’d make both Sheets and Burger available in trade talks. Vaughn too but it would take a lot for me to move him.

The Sox need to get more flexible with guys who can play multiple positions, especially guys who can fill in up the middle. It’s the weakest part of the org in my opinion. 

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Steve Stone dissects how good teams like the Astros take advantage of defensive lapses, with comments focused on Eloy and Grandal, including Grandal’s inability to block sliders in the dirt.

He also called out the lack of fundamentals all season, and poor defensive catchers including the backups.

 

What the Astros took advantage of were walks and HBP.

[NWINFan]

3 hours ago, poppysox said:

He has a beautiful swing IMO.  Perhaps it's your TV feed.

No, it's not feed. He had a crappy swing.

[Two-Gun Pete]

 

 

On 10/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, The Mighty Mite said:

Burger is another story, if Yoan wasn't such good third sacker I would put him at second and give the 3B job to Burger but that's not going to happen so maybe one of them gets traded for a second baseman with some pop. It would a no brainer to keep Yoan but I'm disappointed in his production, 14 homers and 61 RBI is not what we traded Sale for.

You bring up am interesting point:

IF Burger can actually play 3rd at an MLB level, what would Moncada bring back in trade?

 

Not that I would do it, because up to this point, I've considered Burger to be a fat, useless, worthless piece of shit who has squandered his potential eating and not bothering to get his cardio.

 

But if (and that's a big "IF") Burger can play 3rd, Moncada could fix a lot of self-inflicted damage that this moronic FO has done this season, were he traded for a decent return.

[AJSOX]

11 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Steve Stone dissects how good teams like the Astros take advantage of defensive lapses, with comments focused on Eloy and Grandal, including Grandal’s inability to block sliders in the dirt.

He also called out the lack of fundamentals all season, and poor defensive catchers including the backups.

 

I love listening to Stone. The fact that he's seeing this and the Mgr and coaches are not or not doing anything about it is a real shame.

[CentralChamps21]

14 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

It was one of his better interviews, which is saying something because most of them are quite good.

Couple of things that stood out was how he framed how the game of baseball is won 90 feet at a time, meaning the good teams are always getting that extra 90 feet by either taking it on the bases and/or preventing the other team from taking an extra 90 feet.    He pointed out how poor the Sox are with the latter with their poor fundamentals, with either the outfielders constantly missing the cutoff man and the entire current catching staff unable to block balls in the dirt.  

What was particularly striking was his comment that Eloy never hits the cutoff man, that he would be a very rich man if he had a dime for every time he didn’t hit the cutoff man this year.  That blew my mind, I didn’t realize that was going on.  That’s unacceptable at the Major League level.  For me that’s on par with not hustling to first base which many managers will bench players for.  

I love Eloy and want to vomit when I read other posts from people who think he should be traded, but routinely not hitting the cutoff man is something the manager and coaching staff should address head on.  Or maybe the pitchers get in his face as he’s unnecessarily allowing the opposing team to take an extra base.  No way.  No way this should be happening. 

I'm not advocating bringing Ozzie back, but his teams were known for doing the little things right. This team needs someone to instill that in them.

[Balta1701]

17 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I'm not advocating bringing Ozzie back, but his teams were known for doing the little things right. This team needs someone to instill that in them.

No they weren’t, not in his last 5 years. The only well coached White Sox team I have seen in about 15 years was 2012, the first year after he resigned.

[ron883]

18 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

 

 

You bring up am interesting point:

IF Burger can actually play 3rd at an MLB level, what would Moncada bring back in trade?

 

Not that I would do it, because up to this point, I've considered Burger to be a fat, useless, worthless piece of shit who has squandered his potential eating and not bothering to get his cardio.

 

But if (and that's a big "IF") Burger can play 3rd, Moncada could fix a lot of self-inflicted damage that this moronic FO has done this season, were he traded for a decent return.

Sad. Have you watched the Sox this season? He's in good shape and can play 3rd. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

8 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Sad. Have you watched the Sox this season? He's in good shape and can play 3rd. 

Yes, while you've been thinking about rooting for the cubs, and hating on the 2020 AL MVP, I've been watching the SOX.

Burger's fielding remains suspect, based on his history. He also loves his Domino's, and needed to miracle his fat ass into shape this year. Until he consistently proves that he knows what vegetables and cardio are, I reserve the right to assume that he'll continue to work on his BK body.

[kleedawg]

On 10/17/2021 at 7:31 PM, NWINFan said:

No, it's not feed. He had a crappy swing.

so disagree

[tray]

On 10/17/2021 at 4:23 PM, Thad Bosley said:

What was particularly striking was his comment that Eloy never hits the cutoff man

Stone needs to lay off Eloy.

[caulfield12]

On 10/18/2021 at 5:36 AM, Joshua Strong said:

If I’m running the team, I’d make both Sheets and Burger available in trade talks. Vaughn too but it would take a lot for me to move him.

The Sox need to get more flexible with guys who can play multiple positions, especially guys who can fill in up the middle. It’s the weakest part of the org in my opinion. 

Ironic, since we discovered Escobar, Semien, Anderson and Tatis, Jr...

[caulfield12]

On 10/18/2021 at 6:33 AM, Dick Allen said:

What the Astros took advantage of were walks and HBP.

And never holding runners or throwing anyone out...not to mentioned all the extra bases surrendered by improper fundamentals and lack of accountability for said mental lapses and/or lack of situational awareness. 

[oldsox]

So, two of our posters above commented on Sheets' swing.  I thought it was a bit loopy also, but then I thought it must have always been that way, because his minor league stats were not overwhelming.  I thought then that he probably worked hard to improve it.  Of course, I say this without ever seeing him play before this year.

Speaking of long, loopy swings, the extreme here is the Dodgers' Cody Bellinger.  

[Dick Allen]

On 10/18/2021 at 6:59 PM, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yes, while you've been thinking about rooting for the cubs, and hating on the 2020 AL MVP, I've been watching the SOX.

Burger's fielding remains suspect, based on his history. He also loves his Domino's, and needed to miracle his fat ass into shape this year. Until he consistently proves that he knows what vegetables and cardio are, I reserve the right to assume that he'll continue to work on his BK body.

He made one of the most miraculous comebacks ever, not just to play, but to play in the major leagues. And he held his own, enough where I can't imagine most teams wouldn't think he didn't have a productive future. Your post is vile. It shows you aren't a White Dox fan, just someone who wants to complain about something.  It also shows what an incredibly small person you are.

[ron883]

8 hours ago, tray said:

Stone needs to lay off Eloy.

Eloy needs to hit the cut off man. 

[southsider2k5]

10 hours ago, tray said:

Stone needs to lay off Eloy.

Eloy needs to learn to play a little league level of OF without hurting himself before it's not justified.

[Thad Bosley]

On 10/23/2021 at 2:02 AM, tray said:

Stone needs to lay off Eloy.

Why?  If what he says is true about him never hitting the cutoff man, that’s a very important observation.  Why would/should the analyst paid to analyze not include that in his analysis if that’s what he believes?

[reiks12]

On 10/18/2021 at 6:59 PM, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yes, while you've been thinking about rooting for the cubs, and hating on the 2020 AL MVP, I've been watching the SOX.

Burger's fielding remains suspect, based on his history. He also loves his Domino's, and needed to miracle his fat ass into shape this year. Until he consistently proves that he knows what vegetables and cardio are, I reserve the right to assume that he'll continue to work on his BK body.

you ok?

[Sambuca]

1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

Why?  If what he says is true about him never hitting the cutoff man, that’s a very important observation.  Why would/should the analyst paid to analyze not include that in his analysis if that’s what he believes?

I would like to know how many times this actually happened.  

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

Why?  If what he says is true about him never hitting the cutoff man, that’s a very important observation.  Why would/should the analyst paid to analyze not include that in his analysis if that’s what he believes?

Bet yet, why didn't Tony or Daryl work on this with Eloy?

It's not the first La Russa led White Sox team called out for poor defensive fundamentals by their team paid announcers. Perhaps Tony will form another possy and physically confront Steve Stone in Arizona, or Tony himself will muster the courage to take a swing after "a glass or two" of wine.

[tray]

19 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

I would like to know how many times this actually happened.  

Stone had a thing about criticizing Eloy all season..even mocking him. That really got old for me after a while. Stone's pronunciation of  Eloy's name, accenting the second syllable, just seemed like it revealed part of his bias against that player. Whatever his reasons, I don't care.  Everyone has their own opinion of players. Stone's bias is just more apparent and potentially controversial since he is on air for so many games.

Anyway, If you care to buy everything Stone is trying to sell you (go ahead!) , Vaughn is the next Mike Trout and Moncada is a lazy bum. I am sensing a pattern with Stone's opinions about players.

Edited October 26, 2021 by tray
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