Abreu next year and in the future

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think Andrew Vaughn is a core player. Lets say the new catcher is behind the dish. Grandal is at DH. Abreu will play 1B for the Sox until he decides to leave. Which one of Vaughn/Eloy is sitting in this scenario? 

I think between injuries and rotating players you can get everyone plenty of games in a system like this.  There are teams that do it.  I mean if we need to trade from strength to do get what we need that is one thing, but when you see the super depth happening around the league, I don't see having redundancy as a bad thing.

[Y2Jimmy0]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think between injuries and rotating players you can get everyone plenty of games in a system like this.  There are teams that do it.  I mean if we need to trade from strength to do get what we need that is one thing, but when you see the super depth happening around the league, I don't see having redundancy as a bad thing.

I think it's tough if Jose Abreu is playing 150+ games personally. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

6 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think it's tough if Jose Abreu is playing 150+ games personally. 

It's a good thing they have a Hall of Famer baseball person to make it all work.  

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think it's tough if Jose Abreu is playing 150+ games personally. 

I think its a good reason to make him NOT play 150 games, and one that might work.

[greg775]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think its a good reason to make him NOT play 150 games, and one that might work.

Regarding my own eye test, Jose had a lot of bad at bats last season when I was watching. Almost like if he worked the count deep he ended up striking out and if he went to attack the first or second pitch he grounded out. In the past, the games I watched (many of them, I wouldn't say most of them) he saw the ball, hit the ball, raked the ball. He had a bleep ton of RBIs again so he had a good year again. I wonder if he can do more next season tho.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

29 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think its a good reason to make him NOT play 150 games, and one that might work.

la russa won't sit him when he wants to play.  We know at least that much already.

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, SleepyWhiteSox said:

la russa won't sit him when he wants to play.  We know at least that much already.

If you put Jose into the "good teammate" role where his having a seat every few weeks means his valued teammate gets to play a bit more, I think you can get Jose on board with this.  Tony, who the F knows.

[poppysox]

10 hours ago, Flash said:

TRADE TARGET...

Daulton Varsho Diamondbacks. 25 yr old w/5 yrs of control. Excellent defensive catcher (caught 31 games in '21 but blocked by Carson Kelly) and all around OF (all 3 positions). LH hitter with pop. Can catch or platoon w/Engel and or Jimenez/Vaughn. He'd cost plenty in trade but would be an ideal target. Maybe D-backs would do business on a package to also include Ketal Marte. 

Good suggestion.  Just read up on him and he sounds perfect.  

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Good suggestion.  Just read up on him and he sounds perfect.  

With Ketel Marte included, you’d have to trade Jimenez/Vaughn (probably ask for both to start) and Crochet.

Not sure you get there with Sheets, Burger and Crochet.  Which means the fairest package would be Vaughn or Jimenez, Sheets or Burger, and Crochet.

Once again, that pretty much limits the remaining window to the next couple of seasons.

[CeaseAndExist]

On 10/22/2021 at 8:42 AM, Eminor3rd said:

Ok

Didn't say it wasn't; try reading closer.

Yep, but it's a substantially smaller gap than it used to be. Here's one article, of dozens available, explaining this: https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/9/21/17885820/pitch-framing-strike-zone-jorge-alfaro-tyler-flowers

Didn't say it was -- but it's a nearly universal consensus (and was at the time of the White Sox signing) that Grandal is/was elite at the former and terrible at the latter -- and that happens to be who we're talking about.

It seems like you had a particular-shaped complaint that you wanted to fit my post into ahead of time. I don't even have a problem with Grandal on this team, lol.

All of the teams that are employing specifically those players? The two teams in the ALCS are good examples, but you can find more.

 

Imagine thinking Grandal is terrible, then trying to defend it. I actually feel bad for you

[ShoeLessRob]

5 minutes ago, CeaseAndExist said:

 

Imagine thinking Grandal is terrible, then trying to defend it. I actually feel bad for you

You completely disregard most of what the post says, spin it around to a narrative that YOU want it to say, then post things like “I feel sorry for you”. 

I feel sorry for you, this is a message board where we share opinions. Sorry not everyone on here thinks Grandal is a messiah at catcher. 

 

[CeaseAndExist]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:30 AM, vilehoopster said:

Oh my God! Didn’t I start with stats? Sox LAST in baseball in passed balls and wild pitches. Sox LAST in baseball in throwing out runners. Those are stats!  

You guys quote this stat or that stat as empirical proof. Isn’t often the difference between a hit and a error an “eye test”, an opinion. Doesn’t that opinion affect offensive and defensive war? Isn’t the weight given to offense vs. defensive stats in war, and how war was created based on the values attributed to this or that based completely on opinion.

Quote any stat you want, You cannot watch Grandal catch a week’s worth of games and claim he is anywhere near the defensive catcher McCann was.

You guys making fun of the “eye test” are like the guy standing in the rain while everyone else is under an umbrella insisting that the radar on your phone says it’s not raining.

Now you're attributing passed balls from Sevala and Collins to Grandal.

I mean, that's an impressive level and haterism. 

[CeaseAndExist]

4 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

You completely disregard most of what the post says, spin it around to a narrative that YOU want it to say, then post things like “I feel sorry for you”. 

I feel sorry for you, this is a message board where we share opinions. Sorry not everyone on here thinks Grandal is a messiah at catcher. 

 

lol you really take this personally, good to know

[ShoeLessRob]

Just now, CeaseAndExist said:

lol you really take this personally, good to know

Not at all. Were all die hard Sox fans on here. I hope I eat crow and Grandal goes out next year, his defense improves after his injury plagued season, he continues to mash offensively, and helps us win a World Series. 

[CeaseAndExist]

1 minute ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Not at all. Were all die hard Sox fans on here. I hope I eat crow and Grandal goes out next year, his defense improves after his injury plagued season, he continues to mash offensively, and helps us win a World Series. 

I can agree on that haha. Definitely a lot of passion in our fanbase and winning another WS needs to happen.

[Flash]

16 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

With Ketel Marte included, you’d have to trade Jimenez/Vaughn (probably ask for both to start) and Crochet.

Not sure you get there with Sheets, Burger and Crochet.  Which means the fairest package would be Vaughn or Jimenez, Sheets or Burger, and Crochet.

Once again, that pretty much limits the remaining window to the next couple of seasons.

I'd happily send Jimenez and Crochet for Marte and Varsho and fail to see how this alters the window. My sense is D-backs would prefer Vaughn to Jimenez in which case I'd be less inclined toward the trade and would focus on Varsho alone. Maybe Crochet plus a combo platter from among Burger, Sheets and Collins for Varsho. 

[Jnooch]

I take the stance that Abreu does have some value but unlike the final Konerko deal ; after the 2022 season sign him to one year deals until 

both sides feel a parting of the way is the best thing for the team.

[caulfield12]

A healthy Ketel Marte is criminally-underrated around here…

[GreenSox]

Cherish depth, but when the depth a) is not in pitching b) is in corner positions and c)when you have holes on the roster, it might be a good idea to use some of that depth to address a) and c).  The pitching really broke down in the playoffs; perhaps overused during the regular season, perhaps it wasn't as good as the stats due to the comparatively soft schedule, or maybe just "one of those things/bad luck".  But not only do they lack depth, they have 2 slots in the rotation to fill.

[Eminor3rd]

On 10/23/2021 at 2:45 PM, CeaseAndExist said:

 

Imagine thinking Grandal is terrible, then trying to defend it. I actually feel bad for you

Imagine not even being able to read the six or so sentences of the post you responded to find out I don't even think he's terrible, lmao. 

What a waste of time it must be to argue with people about things they don't even believe.

[Chicago White Sox]

17 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Cherish depth, but when the depth a) is not in pitching b) is in corner positions and c)when you have holes on the roster, it might be a good idea to use some of that depth to address a) and c).  The pitching really broke down in the playoffs; perhaps overused during the regular season, perhaps it wasn't as good as the stats due to the comparatively soft schedule, or maybe just "one of those things/bad luck".  But not only do they lack depth, they have 2 slots in the rotation to fill.

Two slots?  Giolito, Lynn, Cease, & Kopech at minimum are getting four of the spots.  I think they QO Rodon and he accepts, which would then be a full rotation.  So I’d say they have one spot in the rotation to address if Rodon doesn’t accept and they plan to move on from Keuchel.  No doubt some depth would be nice, but most organizations don’t have great #6 starters.  Will probably be Lopez primarily with hopes that Stiever & Lambert can finally stay healthy and eat up some starts as well.  That can probably work in a weak AL Central, although I’d try for a couple minor league deals to add some arms in AAA as well.

[Snopek]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Two slots?  Giolito, Lynn, Cease, & Kopech at minimum are getting four of the spots.  I think they QO Rodon and he accepts, which would then be a full rotation.  So I’d say they have one spot in the rotation to address if Rodon doesn’t accept and they plan to move on from Keuchel.  No doubt some depth would be nice, but most organizations don’t have great #6 starters.  Will probably be Lopez primarily with hopes that Stiever & Lambert can finally stay healthy and eat up some starts as well.  That can probably work in a weak AL Central, although I’d try for a couple minor league deals to add some arms in AAA as well.

Is there a general sense of what we're thinking Kopech's IP will look like next year? I can't imagine him going much more than 150 or so, so we'll need another body to help fill that rotation spot. I'd agree that Lopez will likely play a big role in spot starts/back end of the rotation, though I prefer him coming out of the pen.

The team was pretty fortunate with SP health this past year. If they're banking on that good health once again, things could get ugly pretty quickly while scrambling to give starts to Lopez, Stiever and Lambert. Unfortunately, I don't think it's realistic to bring in a Gausman or one of the other solid SP options out there, but at the very least I'd like to see some depth that is a little less of a question mark than Stiever and Lambert. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

Is there a general sense of what we're thinking Kopech's IP will look like next year? I can't imagine him going much more than 150 or so, so we'll need another body to help fill that rotation spot. I'd agree that Lopez will likely play a big role in spot starts/back end of the rotation, though I prefer him coming out of the pen.

The team was pretty fortunate with SP health this past year. If they're banking on that good health once again, things could get ugly pretty quickly while scrambling to give starts to Lopez, Stiever and Lambert. Unfortunately, I don't think it's realistic to bring in a Gausman or one of the other solid SP options out there, but at the very least I'd like to see some depth that is a little less of a question mark than Stiever and Lambert. 

Fully agree, just challenging to add a lot of quality SP depth given limited roster spots and financial resources.  Plus good starters aren’t going to take a reliever role and hope they eventually get a shot in the rotation.  Hahn will need to be creative, because I agree that Kopech likely caps out a 150 innings and Rodon has never been a beacon of health (again assuming he is back).  Lopez, Stiever, Lambert, and possibly McClure are our best in-house options, but couldn’t hurt to add some sort of vet to the Knights’ rotation.

[Dick Allen]

2 hours ago, Snopek said:

Is there a general sense of what we're thinking Kopech's IP will look like next year? I can't imagine him going much more than 150 or so, so we'll need another body to help fill that rotation spot. I'd agree that Lopez will likely play a big role in spot starts/back end of the rotation, though I prefer him coming out of the pen.

The team was pretty fortunate with SP health this past year. If they're banking on that good health once again, things could get ugly pretty quickly while scrambling to give starts to Lopez, Stiever and Lambert. Unfortunately, I don't think it's realistic to bring in a Gausman or one of the other solid SP options out there, but at the very least I'd like to see some depth that is a little less of a question mark than Stiever and Lambert. 

To me, Kopech will be in a similar situation next season to what Rodon was in this year.

[southsider2k5]