The MLB lockout is lifted!

[poppysox]

36 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Oh yes, such inspirational life stories of silver spoons and birthrights keep me warm on those cold cold nights.  

My statement said how they got their wealth was not relevant to labor relations.

[poppysox]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

You also have stated multiple times that the players should be happy to get what they get, and should be happy to play for pennies, and generally have cheered for the owners side the entire time.  So no, you don't get to talk out of both sides of your mouth and claim to be right. 

This is just a lie.  

[poppysox]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

*gasp* I shall clutch my pearls now that I have been called out for a spelling error.
 

Please give me a moment everyone 

The reading comprehension you have is just scary.

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, poppysox said:

The reading comprehension you have is just scary.

Maybe you don't see it, but a whole lot of people see that you seem to only pop up on one side of the details, and then revert back to "I don't care who wins".  Your statements always seem to be against players (they will fold first, they can't afford hold out, they make tons of money, players aren't self-made, etc) and never against owners.  I see the same thing as Kyle does, and many other seem to do the same.  Maybe if that is what you truly intend, you should revisit how you make your statements, but they say otherwise.

[Kyyle23]

21 minutes ago, poppysox said:

My statement said how they got their wealth was not relevant to labor relations.

It's relevant to your assessment of these self made men.  And you certainly jumped up to cry about that post even though it didn't have anything to do with you 

would love to test my reading comprehension on all of these owner friendly articles on the bleacher report just waiting for a couple links 

[Tony]

25 minutes ago, poppysox said:

This is just a lie.  

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

 

[WBWSF]

Former MLB manager  Lou Piniella was on Tv yesterday  and said that the owners are dug in and they are prepared for a long lockout.

[ChiSox59]

Welp, still early in the day but I was hoping for tweets discussing positive momentum in the early going. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

My statement said how they got their wealth was not relevant to labor relations.

"If you went and got the next 1,200 best players in the world, the product would suffer greatly. If you handed MLB teams over to any 30 competent businesspeople, the sport would not suffer. Actually, it might improve. It doesn't take a billionaire to leverage a spot in a legalized monopoly with profound built-in revenues.

The Yankees are not the Yankees if Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle and Yogi Berra don't win. Without the best players, they aren't in the World Series, and without championships, they're little more than an organization in a big market whose laundry features pinstripes. One would think, then, that a league would recognize that its profits exist because of Shohei Ohtani, Fernando Tatis Jr., Mike Trout, Juan Soto, Mookie Betts, Ronald Acuña Jr., Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and others -- and would see players' concerns about the state of the game not as trivial or excessive or outrageous, but vital."

Jeff Passan/ESPN

 

[Quin]

2 hours ago, poppysox said:

What part of don't care who wins did you not understand?

Because it isn't congruent with all of your arguments.

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Maybe you don't see it, but a whole lot of people see that you seem to only pop up on one side of the details, and then revert back to "I don't care who wins".  Your statements always seem to be against players (they will fold first, they can't afford hold out, they make tons of money, players aren't self-made, etc) and never against owners.  I see the same thing as Kyle does, and many other seem to do the same.  Maybe if that is what you truly intend, you should revisit how you make your statements, but they say otherwise.

The owners haven't done a thing that surprises me or is wrong IMO.  They run businesses and try to hold down costs just like any company in America.  The owner's wealth however they achieved it is not relevant to the discussion any more than if I said Giolito comes from a wealthy family.  I do believe the players will need to consider how long they can fight the good fight.  It is very hard to keep 1000+ people on board compared to 30.  Also, these bottom-of-the-tier players are the ones who need spring training to attempt to earn a spot.  Yes, I frequently say I don't care who wins because all I want to do is watch baseball.  I won't get a bonus if the owners "win."   Why is that so hard to understand?  I do believe the vast majority of players are very satisfied with their situation and would never hold out because of any injustice they personally feel.  These union rants about the poor working man against the tyrannical oppressor owners are just plain dishonest and are used in every union/employee negotiation.  Some forum members want to pretend they are Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor.  The only money that is going to change hands is fans paying higher prices.  

[poppysox]

38 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

"If you went and got the next 1,200 best players in the world, the product would suffer greatly. If you handed MLB teams over to any 30 competent businesspeople, the sport would not suffer. Actually, it might improve. It doesn't take a billionaire to leverage a spot in a legalized monopoly with profound built-in revenues.

The Yankees are not the Yankees if Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Mickey Mantle and Yogi Berra don't win. Without the best players, they aren't in the World Series, and without championships, they're little more than an organization in a big market whose laundry features pinstripes. One would think, then, that a league would recognize that its profits exist because of Shohei Ohtani, Fernando Tatis Jr., Mike Trout, Juan Soto, Mookie Betts, Ronald Acuña Jr., Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and others -- and would see players' concerns about the state of the game not as trivial or excessive or outrageous, but vital."

Jeff Passan/ESPN

 

No one has tried to demean the skills of the players.  The vast majority of workers don't make as much as they are worth.  However, I could make a list of overplayed players easier than a list meant to reflect those who are underpaid.

[ChiSox59]

11 minutes ago, poppysox said:

The owners haven't done a thing that surprises me or is wrong IMO.  They run businesses and try to hold down costs just like any company in America.  The owner's wealth however they achieved it is not relevant to the discussion any more than if I said Giolito comes from a wealthy family.  I do believe the players will need to consider how long they can fight the good fight.  It is very hard to keep 1000+ people on board compared to 30.  Also, these bottom-of-the-tier players are the ones who need spring training to attempt to earn a spot.  Yes, I frequently say I don't care who wins because all I want to do is watch baseball.  I won't get a bonus if the owners "win."   Why is that so hard to understand?  I do believe the vast majority of players are very satisfied with their situation and would never hold out because of any injustice they personally feel.  These union rants about the poor working man against the tyrannical oppressor owners are just plain dishonest and are used in every union/employee negotiation.  Some forum members want to pretend they are Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor.  The only money that is going to change hands is fans paying higher prices.  

I feel like if this were true, we wouldn't be in this position. 

I do somewhat feel like this whole thing is overblown.  I do see where both sides are coming from.  I don't think raising the min salary to (say) $800k is unreasonable.  I am sure there are a share of players who would happily continue on with the current set up.  A cancelled season could certainly be devastating to some fringe players.  But if the "vast majority" of players were on board with what the owners propose, we would not be in the position. 

[Tnetennba]

 

[poppysox]

14 minutes ago, Quin said:

Because it isn't congruent with all of your arguments.

It is your perfect right to think the players are in a great position to win this negotiation.  I do not.  What you consider to be my "arguments" is my honest attempt to show both sides in a fair light."  This forum would sure be boring if we all had the same thoughts on these various topics.  Unfortunately, some of the members use insults and name-calling to attempt to win what they think of as arguments.  Some of the best posters just sit on the sidelines rather than take the disrespectful bombardment so frequently handed out by a few.

[Tnetennba]

 

[BigHurt3515]

This fucking sucks

[poppysox]

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I feel like if this were true, we wouldn't be in this position. 

I do somewhat feel like this whole thing is overblown.  I do see where both sides are coming from.  I don't think raising the min salary to (say) $800k is unreasonable.  I am sure there are a share of players who would happily continue on with the current set up.  A cancelled season could certainly be devastating to some fringe players.  But if the "vast majority" of players were on board with what the owners propose, we would not be in the position. 

Two Points:

1)  I have stated $700 as my idea of reasonable.  If it takes $800 I don't really care...but it does seem steep.

2)  When contract negotiations open up very few employees have input into "how they feel."  Most employees sit back and "let those guys handle it."  When the paycheck doesn't happen the voice of employees starts to be heard.  Remember, a very large number of players will gain nothing from these talks.  It is very hard to keep those people in line.
 

 

[poppysox]

5 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

This fucking sucks

This is the moment we all knew it would come to.  11th-hour negotiation where both sides really need to evaluate what's important to them.  I haven't given up hope.

[Harry Chappas]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Literally every single player is a self made man who made it to the majors based on their skill and ability.  There is no inheriting a major league baseball career.

Genes and family finances play a role.  I always think about what talent a kid may have missed because of their upbringing.

I have never had the opportunity to do the nordic combined.  What if I was good at that or maybe Curling. 

I know what I suck at that  I had an opportunity to try but what about those things I could not.

Maybe I could have been a great math teacher but elected finance instead. 

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, poppysox said:

The owners haven't done a thing that surprises me or is wrong IMO.  They run businesses and try to hold down costs just like any company in America.  The owner's wealth however they achieved it is not relevant to the discussion any more than if I said Giolito comes from a wealthy family.  I do believe the players will need to consider how long they can fight the good fight.  It is very hard to keep 1000+ people on board compared to 30.  Also, these bottom-of-the-tier players are the ones who need spring training to attempt to earn a spot.  Yes, I frequently say I don't care who wins because all I want to do is watch baseball.  I won't get a bonus if the owners "win."   Why is that so hard to understand?  I do believe the vast majority of players are very satisfied with their situation and would never hold out because of any injustice they personally feel.  These union rants about the poor working man against the tyrannical oppressor owners are just plain dishonest and are used in every union/employee negotiation.  Some forum members want to pretend they are Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor.  The only money that is going to change hands is fans paying higher prices.  

This post is exactly why people accuse you of being pro-owner.

[Ducksnort]

43 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

 

Guess they won't be getting that expanded postseason

[poppysox]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This post is exactly why people accuse you of being pro-owner.

Apparently, those people have reading comprehension issues.  Although I have no problem with the owners as a group...I don't feel any need to bash the players.  You keep siding with the players on all issues.  I've pointed out frequently that both sides claimed that parity was the prime issue.  Yet neither side is talking about a minimum team cap.  Why are you so easy on the players with that issue?