Texsox Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 40 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Both sides made original offers that were quite favorable to them. In your words, both sides made initial offers that were unfair to the other side. The owners’ initial proposal was worse for the players than the current CBA in important ways (elimination of Super 2 contracts and replacing it with a $10 million bonus pool was a request for a solid league-wide salary cut). Both sides could have accepted the others offer on face but it would have stung. An appropriate negotiation should work exactly like that. You submit your ideal offer…and find a compromise that neither side loves but they both accept. Maybe without a 43 day delay, but that’s unimportant. There was about a 1.5 week period where the players weren’t moving on anything prior to yesterday, but outside of that, the players have consistently shown a willingness to compromise on their original offer while the owners have shown no willingness to do so, and that is why we will be missing opening day. Exactly. The players keep compromising, the owners have not. Any more compromising and it is a loss for the players. Meanwhile Amazon racks up record profits and their employees remain severely underpaid. Minimum salary at Amazon should be $60,000 a year. Jeff Bezos is greedier than JR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: Exactly. The players keep compromising, the owners have not. Any more compromising and it is a loss for the players. Meanwhile Amazon racks up record profits and their employees remain severely underpaid. Minimum salary at Amazon should be $60,000 a year. Jeff Bezos is greedier than JR. Not how negotiations work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Not how negotiations work. The players have compromised, the owners have not. As you said earlier the owners are not negotiating in good faith. Sure it works for the owners to not compromise and keep allowing the players to give in. And that's how the player's lose. Meanwhile Berkshire Hathaway racked up over 80 BILLION dollars in profit. Minimum wage there should be $100,000 per year. How greedy are the owners. 81 billion in profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Apple $55 billion in profits, 154,000 employees. They could easily afford a $100,000 bonus to every employee and still earn $25 billion in profits. Bank of America's 140,000 employees created over $27 billion in profits but because they can go work somewhere else we don't care about their meager salaries. They all should received $50,000 bonuses. They are the reason the owners are making so much money. American corporations are exploiting us and we're worried that baseball's minimum wage is unfair at $600,000. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Texsox said: Exactly. The players keep compromising, the owners have not. Any more compromising and it is a loss for the players. Meanwhile Amazon racks up record profits and their employees remain severely underpaid. Minimum salary at Amazon should be $60,000 a year. Jeff Bezos is greedier than JR. Players have shown a willingness to compromise, the owners haven’t. I believe the players would agree to a CBT of 230ish and 12 playoff teams if the owners actually stepped towards the middle with such an offer. But they still refuse to budge. I don’t want the players to compromise any more than they have, but at this point I’m less worried about that than I am the owners not moving an inch and delaying and or cancelling the season in utter recalcitrance. I personally want utter capitulation on the part of ownership and know there will be compromises on the players side I’m won’t be happy about, but that’s inevitable. I don’t disagree with your points about the ills of capitalism outside of baseball but that’s another conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 https://examples.yourdictionary.com/red-herring-examples.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, Texsox said: 11 minutes ago, Texsox said: Exactly. The players keep compromising, the owners have not. Any more compromising and it is a loss for the players. Meanwhile Amazon racks up record profits and their employees remain severely underpaid. Minimum salary at Amazon should be $60,000 a year. Jeff Bezos is greedier than JR. The Walmart clan consisting of Sam Waltons children are worth in excess of $200 billion and they are looked at kindly for creating jobs all across America. Poor JR is only worth 1.6 billion and isn't paying the millionaires that work for him enough in the opinion of some. Warren Buffet has a personal fortune of $160 billion and controls ownership of Berkshire Hathway with a value of 536 billion yet doesn't involve himself in employer, union negotiation. Baseball ownership has offered a $60K increase to the baseball starting wage of $570K and it is talked about like the owners made some kind of insulting offer. The sport and entertainment industries live on a different planet than those people trying to make a living in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: https://examples.yourdictionary.com/red-herring-examples.html I believe corporate greed is out of control and employees need to be paid a middle class wage. I wish we were as concerned about $40,000 a year employees getting exploited than $600,000 athletes. Why is it ok for one corporation to make billions and not another? Merck employees earned $138,000 in profit per employee. Give everyone a $38,000 a year raise and you would still have most of those profits. We're losing middle class wages and arguing that baseball teams are too profitable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: I believe corporate greed is out of control and employees need to be paid a middle class wage. I wish we were as concerned about $40,000 a year employees getting exploited than $600,000 athletes. Why is it ok for one corporation to make billions and not another? Merck employees earned $138,000 in profit per employee. Give everyone a $38,000 a year raise and you would still have most of those profits. We're losing middle class wages and arguing that baseball teams are too profitable. Sir, this is a baseball forum and a thread about baseball’s owners locking out their players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 The owners want to break the union, and the season is in danger. In a sense, it doesn't matter to me. Whenever the season begins, if it begins, I will not attend a major league baseball in game in 2022. My small boycott will not affect things, but it will make me feel better. I have no interest in expanded playoffs or any kind of strange season that will happen, if it happens. I don't know what all of this will accomplish, but for at least one season, I want no part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, poppysox said: The Walmart clan consisting of Sam Waltons children are worth in excess of $200 billion and they are looked at kindly for creating jobs all across America. Poor JR is only worth 1.6 billion and isn't paying the millionaires that work for him enough in the opinion of some. Warren Buffet has a personal fortune of $160 billion and controls ownership of Berkshire Hathway with a value of 536 billion yet doesn't involve himself in employer, union negotiation. Baseball ownership has offered a $60K increase to the baseball starting wage of $570K and it is talked about like the owners made some kind of insulting offer. The sport and entertainment industries live on a different planet than those people trying to make a living in the real world. Exactly, who can relate to these people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Sir, this is a baseball forum and a thread about baseball’s owners locking out their players. Don't be fooled by the numbers, this is a labor versus owner issue and does not exist in a vacuum. Posters have posted how baseball players don't have the opportunity to find another company to hire them. Guess what? In the rest of the world having that option isn't an advantage. Employees get exploited in our society. If we can rally around baseball players when they are being exploited, why not bankers, and software developers, and order pickers at Amazon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, NWINFan said: The owners want to break the union, and the season is in danger. Is this true? If the owners want to break the union there will be no season. It's already upsetting that it's late February and we're not enjoying spring training games. Are the players down there working out on their own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Do you think they murdered one another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spicy gar Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 hours ago, poppysox said: The Walmart clan consisting of Sam Waltons children are worth in excess of $200 billion and they are looked at kindly for creating jobs all across America. Poor JR is only worth 1.6 billion and isn't paying the millionaires that work for him enough in the opinion of some. Warren Buffet has a personal fortune of $160 billion and controls ownership of Berkshire Hathway with a value of 536 billion yet doesn't involve himself in employer, union negotiation. Baseball ownership has offered a $60K increase to the baseball starting wage of $570K and it is talked about like the owners made some kind of insulting offer. The sport and entertainment industries live on a different planet than those people trying to make a living in the real world. The Walton family is not looked at kindly across America. Fuck off with the "job creator" bullshit. You get league minimum if you can make it to the bigs. The overwhelming majority of players don't make it and get paid poverty wages for years. This isn't the real world. It is a group that is exempt from anti trust law. Pro sports in the US live outside the real world man. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 23 minutes ago, Spicy gar said: The Walton family is not looked at kindly across America. Fuck off with the "job creator" bullshit. You get league minimum if you can make it to the bigs. The overwhelming majority of players don't make it and get paid poverty wages for years. This isn't the real world. It is a group that is exempt from anti trust law. Pro sports in the US live outside the real world man. They don't make poverty wages for years. They generally get 2 or 3 years then go home as hometown celebrities who sell insurance or tend bar. This labor dispute is about owners and major league-ready players. $600+ starting salaries are very good. Hey...if $700k would get done I say do it. This poverty-wage argument is just silly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 minute ago, poppysox said: They don't make poverty wages for years. They generally get 2 or 3 years then go home as hometown celebrities who sell insurance or tend bar. This labor dispute is about owners and major league-ready players. $600+ starting salaries are very good. Hey...if $700k would get done I say do it. This poverty-wage argument is just silly. Sure, if you ignore the subpoverty minor league years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 31 minutes ago, Spicy gar said: The Walton family is not looked at kindly across America. Fuck off with the "job creator" bullshit. You get league minimum if you can make it to the bigs. The overwhelming majority of players don't make it and get paid poverty wages for years. This isn't the real world. It is a group that is exempt from anti trust law. Pro sports in the US live outside the real world man. Just like Amazon employees, just like Walmart employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Joy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Sure, if you ignore the subpoverty minor league years. Exactly. Why isn't the players union fighting to represent minor league players? It seems like that's an even bigger need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Texsox said: Exactly. Why isn't the players union fighting to represent minor league players? It seems like that's an even bigger need. Much more valid than the current situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 It's almost been turned into a meme in this thread, but there is absolutely nothing about supporting players getting the historical share of revenues they have gotten in the past which disqualifies someone from feeling that other people to deserve fair wages. It's just some uneeded whataboutism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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