The MLB lockout is lifted!

[caulfield12]

Along with Williams, San Diego Padres pitcher Joe Musgrove, Chicago White Sox pitcher Lucas Giolito, New York Yankees pitcher Jameson Taillon and Mets pitcher Taijuan Walker were among the first players to change their profile pictures on Twitter.

 

NEW YORK -- Within minutes of locking out players Thursday amid contentious negotiations on the next collective bargaining agreement, Major League Baseball scrubbed all remnants of player likenesses off its official properties such as MLB.com, replacing player photos with generic silhouettes.

In response, players decided to lean all the way in.

Players started to change their profile pictures on Twitter to the generic player silhouettes in solidarity and as a response to the league's action. The decision to do so was not an organized, calculated move by the Major League Baseball Players Association but rather started off as a joke in a small player text group chat, according to New York Mets pitcher Trevor Williams, one of the first to change his profile picture.

"It was just being silly," Williams told ESPN. "It's a meme. When you think about it, by us posting a picture of what MLB does, we're doubling down on what they're doing. It's not supposed to be serious."

 

It's amazing to see players around the league change their avi in solidarity. MLB can take away our image but never our LIKENESS!

— Trevor Williams (@MeLlamoTrevor) December 2, 2021

 

I have no idea what likeness means.

— Trevor Williams (@MeLlamoTrevor) December 2, 2021

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32771388/what-do-shadows-locked-players-play-mlb-scrubbed-pages

[Balta1701]

Ooh I recognize one of those faces.

 

[chw42]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Ooh I recognize one of those faces.

 

I bet MLB didn't see that move as a big win for the players. 

[hi8is]

There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do.

[South Side Hit Men]

 

[poppysox]

8 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

I’d venture that 75% of players aren’t millionaires.  

There are 16 multi-millionaires on the WS roster and of the players pre-arb... 6 of those guys had signing bonuses in excess of 1 million.

[caulfield12]

43 minutes ago, poppysox said:

There are 16 multi-millionaires on the WS roster and of the players pre-arb... 6 of those guys had signing bonuses in excess of 1 million.

But if you look at all the rosters across baseball…a majority of the players who receive ANY big league playing time aren’t.

Look at every single player who played for the Sox last year, not just the current roster.

[bmags]

12 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I actually don't know that is true. I actually don't think the pro-scouting is easy to evaluate cause they haven't done a lot of mega deals anyway but they certainly have had their misses, etc.  But as bad as their system has been from a rankings perspective, you could field a pretty good team based upon guys acquired at minor league levels (via trade draft international etc).  They did have a period though that was not good - but had they just not made the Smardtza trade they would have been so much better depth wise (Bassit, Semien, Montas).  That alone is a combined 45 WAR for .3 WAR (Jeff's WAR with Sox)

Anderson

Tatis Jr

Sale

Quintana

Robert

Abreu 

Moncada 

Kopech

Semien

Escobar 

Vaughn

Engel

Montas

 

Maybe I'm wrong since this will be too nuanced to really get a full view to measure it up. But my argument isn't intended to be Sox are terrible and can't draft or develop at all. But the way they operate has not created the depth from their minors of other teams, so they rely on major league depth more through trades and free agency more than a good portion of other MLB teams. And this is fine because this isn't a jerry is cheap argument, this is possible because he hasn't asked his front office to be the Cleveland Guardians, we can go out and pay 5M for a good utility guy like Leury. So maybe I shouldn't have said sox pro scouting is better than minors/intl, but I also do think that's generally been true when you account for the 00s.

So - they can identify talent. But the structure of their talent pipeline makes it harder for them to have solid replacements consistently.

One - we are not a competitive balance team, so we don't get extra draft budget and international budget every year. The mlb literally wants the white sox to use more of their budget on MLB free agents, so having a free agent pool of younger players would help them get more production from that group even if it's not cheaper.

Two - we have chosen to go after higher likelihood players from international and sign very small classes. So much of the Tampa Rays depth was built 5-6 years ago in the 2014, 2015 intl classes. And much of that will continue. They have more money to throw at it structurally, but even with what sox have they don't prioritize it. 

So the white sox have smaller draft pools than half the teams, and they choose to sign smaller intl classes than pretty much all the teams. No matter how good they are at it, they are going to have waves where they missed more than they hit, and that's where this comes into play.

The way I see it, this helps sox in two ways.

- The pool of free agent players is younger, so they are signing more players for their productive years vs. their decline years.

- In trades, the sox have not often targeted more control, they don't seem to go after trades where they have to pay for 3-4 years and not just talent - possibly because they can't afford it. But this means more players are nearing the end of their contract sooner (logic: the age limit players + end of contract players) so you are paying lower prices for younger, possibly more productive years.

Add to this, the sox are good at locking up their players. So even if it adjusts to 5 years full stop (more likely an age hard stop than lopping off a full year of control), the sox have shown a strong ability to extend this for the key players. 

[poppysox]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But if you look at all the rosters across baseball…a majority of the players who receive ANY big league playing time aren’t.

Look at every single player who played for the Sox last year, not just the current roster.

I find it impractical to explore all rosters in baseball when responding to a forum statement.  The use of the current WS roster was to refute Tnetennba's point of 75% of players are not millionaires...is just not accurate.  These employees vs employer debates are useless since people have preconceived opinions of who is right or wrong.  We all have our biases even though many claims to be impartial.  

[Dick Allen]

39 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I find it impractical to explore all rosters in baseball when responding to a forum statement.  The use of the current WS roster was to refute Tnetennba's point of 75% of players are not millionaires...is just not accurate.  These employees vs employer debates are useless since people have preconceived opinions of who is right or wrong.  We all have our biases even though many claims to be impartial.  

The new definition of millionaire is someone who makes at least $1 million a year. With the old standard , you really need to be a multi-millionaire to actually retire at retirement age, or live in a tent and like cat food.

[caulfield12]

58 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I find it impractical to explore all rosters in baseball when responding to a forum statement.  The use of the current WS roster was to refute Tnetennba's point of 75% of players are not millionaires...is just not accurate.  These employees vs employer debates are useless since people have preconceived opinions of who is right or wrong.  We all have our biases even though many claims to be impartial.  

However, I was shocked to read Tuesday that about 65% of MLB players make $1 million or less. Maybe I'm just dumb and naive, but I would've guessed that figure would be around 20-25%.

Now, before you get ready to send me an angry tweet about those 65% of players still making a great living, I'm well aware. 

The lowest paid player makes more than $500,000, so nobody should cry a river for anyone playing Major League Baseball. 
 

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/05/27/mlb-2020-player-salaries

[poppysox]

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

However, I was shocked to read Tuesday that about 65% of MLB players make $1 million or less. Maybe I'm just dumb and naive, but I would've guessed that figure would be around 20-25%.

Now, before you get ready to send me an angry tweet about those 65% of players still making a great living, I'm well aware. 

The lowest paid player makes more than $500,000, so nobody should cry a river for anyone playing Major League Baseball. 
 

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/05/27/mlb-2020-player-salaries

FYI...I don't send angry tweets.  

[Kyyle23]

 

[Chimpton]

Being from the UK where we are not used to this style of sporting lockout, who do you consider to be most at fault for this one? I have tried reading as much as possible but different articles blame different sides, or is it a case of they are both being stubborn and eventually will get things sorted?

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Being from the UK where we are not used to this style of sporting lockout, who do you consider to be most at fault for this one? I have tried reading as much as possible but different articles blame different sides, or is it a case of they are both being stubborn and eventually will get things sorted?

From what I have read, the owners have brought some absolutely ridiculous and unrealistic offers to the table so far, they haven't been very genuine in their attempts.  It's hard to place "fault" for me because the CBA is up, it needs to be renegotiated in good faith from both sides. However, im sure the players have brought some ridiculous scenarios to the table as well.

It just needs to be negotiated, and right now there isn't a lot of that happening

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

However, I was shocked to read Tuesday that about 65% of MLB players make $1 million or less. Maybe I'm just dumb and naive, but I would've guessed that figure would be around 20-25%.

Now, before you get ready to send me an angry tweet about those 65% of players still making a great living, I'm well aware. 

The lowest paid player makes more than $500,000, so nobody should cry a river for anyone playing Major League Baseball. 
 

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/05/27/mlb-2020-player-salaries

How long is the average big league career and what are these guys set up to do afterwards? Their bodies aren’t as destroyed as NFL players, but if they came straight out of high school, never finished college, or were international signings, what are they going to do with the rest of their careers? We know that’s been a problem in the NFL to the point that the union does a whole bunch of education for their players about being ready for life after a 3 year career.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Being from the UK where we are not used to this style of sporting lockout, who do you consider to be most at fault for this one? I have tried reading as much as possible but different articles blame different sides, or is it a case of they are both being stubborn and eventually will get things sorted?

The basic and fundamental problem is shown on this page in the tweet SSHM shared. Over the past 20 years, baseball’s revenue has tripled. However, the earnings of the players have not tripled (Mike Trout’s deal compared to ARod - would have been $750 million, for an easy example). The owners, through a variety of means, have limited salary growth - the luxury tax limits high spending teams, revenue sharing means the Pirates and Marlins make a hefty profit if they spend nothing, and teams like the Astros and White Sox clear a fortune while they are rebuilding.

The end result is a broken free agent market. When only 1 or 2 teams are trying to get better, Machado and Harper don’t get contract offers in December at all, and we wind up with these 3 month free agent sagas that are bad for fans but which push costs down. That is a symptom of the problem.

Ownership will change a lot of things, but this is a HUGE win for them, the equivalent of hundreds of millions of extra dollars among the 30 owners per year. Under no circumstance will they give this up and allow things to rebalance without a fight. That is the fundamental issue and it’s why I mostly come down on the side of the players. It also negatively impacts the game, because it’s no fun watching a team win 55 games with a payroll lower than what Max Scherzer is making and it’s no fun watching a 3 month free agent sagas compared to the big signing surges we see in the NBA and NFL.

However, the NBA and NFL run differently, and that shows why some blame goes to the players too. They have a defined share of the money going to the players, with a salary cap and floor set by the revenue coming in, and with an independent audit to verify it. The MLB players have specifically rejected this format, in part because it does limit the upper salaries, in part because 2 decades ago their share of revenue was growing and they didn’t want to shut down that gold mine, and in part because these 2 sides trust each other so little that they don’t believe the owners wouldn’t find a way to “Joel Osteen” some of their money into the wall of a bathroom to avoid an audit, which frankly some of them might. Had the players agreed to a true revenue split, the game would look very different, some of these problems wouldn’t exist, and this lockout might never have happened, so there is blame for the players as well.

[turnin' two]

9 hours ago, hi8is said:

There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do. There’s no baseball rumors or news and I don’t know what to do.

 

[Tnetennba]

4 hours ago, poppysox said:

There are 16 multi-millionaires on the WS roster and of the players pre-arb... 6 of those guys had signing bonuses in excess of 1 million.

And none of those guys have any expenses and have every dollar in the bank.  Ok.  

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

 

Uh oh.  Incoming hate mail.

[poppysox]

14 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

And none of those guys have any expenses and have every dollar in the bank.  Ok.  

Just like you and I... the houses and stocks and bonds, etc. all become part of their net worth.  As you know, many people are millionaires who never had a 100 thousand per year job.  By my count, the WS club has 22 multi-millionaires who are on the major league roster.  If those 22 players are not millionaires they really should cut down on the fast food and high-priced women.

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Just like you and I... the houses and stocks and bonds, etc. all become part of their net worth.  As you know, many people are millionaires who never had a 100 thousand per year job.  By my count, the WS club has 22 multi-millionaires who are on the major league roster.  If those 22 players are not millionaires they really should cut down on the fast food and high-priced women.

This isn’t an object lesson in how you think these guys should manage their money.  These guys get well paid after their arb years but it would take them a lifetime to amass the same wealth as the billionaire owners.  Painting it as millionaires vs billionaires is an over-simplification.  If you want to see the players as spoiled millionaires that’s your choice, but most guys toil in the minors and in pre-arb w/o hefty signing bonuses to fall back on.   

[Quin]

14 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Just like you and I... the houses and stocks and bonds, etc. all become part of their net worth.  As you know, many people are millionaires who never had a 100 thousand per year job.  By my count, the WS club has 22 multi-millionaires who are on the major league roster.  If those 22 players are not millionaires they really should cut down on the fast food and high-priced women.

Maybe the owners should just get into the real-estate and TV business — since they get so much revenue from it — and forget the players.

For example, I'm sure the Steinbrenners would have amazing net worth without Yankees players. Think of how valuable the YES Network and Yankees Stadium are!

[poppysox]

21 minutes ago, Quin said:

Maybe the owners should just get into the real-estate and TV business — since they get so much revenue from it — and forget the players.

For example, I'm sure the Steinbrenners would have amazing net worth without Yankees players. Think of how valuable the YES Network and Yankees Stadium are!

Yep..it's a hobby for them.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

22 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

This isn’t an object lesson in how you think these guys should manage their money.  These guys get well paid after their arb years but it would take them a lifetime to amass the same wealth as the billionaire owners.  Painting it as millionaires vs billionaires is an over-simplification.  If you want to see the players as spoiled millionaires that’s your choice, but most guys toil in the minors and in pre-arb w/o hefty signing bonuses to fall back on.   

If you were to count to a million it would take you a little over 12 days.  If you were to count to a billion it would take you over 30 years.  A little perspective on how fucking stupid the millionaire vs billionaire argument is.