ptatc Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 13 minutes ago, Texsox said: No I don't. Explain it to me. Are you against free agency in general or do players have to earn it by playing for ridiculously low wages for a few years while owners rake in huge profits? The teams with the most money gets the players. So the NY and LA teams will dominate the league. If that's your idea of a good league more power to you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I can’t wait to hear next Monday about how Tuesday is the final chance for a 162-game season! I think they are past that. It will now be if the players will be paid and get service time for games they don't play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 minute ago, ptatc said: The teams with the most money gets the players. So the NY and LA teams will dominate the league. If that's your idea of a good league more power to you. That's because the owners choose it to be that way. All of the owners have the money to play ball like NY and LA. They just choose not to. That's ownership deliberately choosing to be non-competitive, and nothing else. There is nothing you could do to convince me that if there were players that warranted it, that every team couldn't spend as much as the Dodgers and Yankees do on a regular basis. Non-competition is a choice. Don't like it? Don't own a baseball team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, Jack Parkman said: That's because the owners choose it to be that way. All of the owners have the money to play ball like NY and LA. They just choose not to. That's ownership deliberately choosing to be non-competitive, and nothing else. There is nothing you could do to convince me that if there were players that warranted it, that every team couldn't spend as much as the Dodgers and Yankees do on a regular basis. Non-competition is a choice. Don't like it? Don't own a baseball team. Sure, and if they could all spend similar amounts, they’d still go to the more prestigious team with better marketing possibilities. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Why? How would you like it if you didn't get to choose your first job as an adult? If you had to work for significantly less than your co-workers for 4 years before being offered a comparable wage? So you are in favor of total non-competive leagues? That's what will happen with no draft. Must other businesses don't rely on competitive balance for a good product so your example is irrelevant. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 minute ago, fathom said: Sure, and if they could all spend similar amounts, they’d still go to the more prestigious team with better marketing possibilities. Do you think if Andrew Vaughn had a choice, he'd have gone to the White Sox, who are loaded with 1B/DH types? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: So you are in favor of total non-competive leagues? That's what will happen with no draft. Must other businesses don't rely on competitive balance for a good product so your example is irrelevant. That's how it already is in the NFL and NBA, and those are the most popular leagues. I really don't think it matters to be honest. Fans should also consider being a fan of the name on the back of the jersey rather than the name on the front. The players make sports. Somehow they have convinced us to be a fan of local teams rather than our favorite players. Edited March 10, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Do you think if Andrew Vaughn had a choice, he'd have gone to the White Sox, who are loaded with 1B/DH types? Poor Andrew Vaughn who got called up after barely playing in the minors? Players sign with good teams all the time where they’re blocked in college sports, as they know they will eventually get a shot while being marketable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: That's because the owners choose it to be that way. All of the owners have the money to play ball like NY and LA. They just choose not to. That's ownership deliberately choosing to be non-competitive, and nothing else. There is nothing you could do to convince me that if there were players that warranted it, that every team couldn't spend as much as the Dodgers and Yankees do on a regular basis. Non-competition is a choice. Don't like it? Don't own a baseball team. The owners don't choose that. Believe it or not some owners have more money than others. The larger markets generate more revenue. They can pay more. Just because they have more money than the average person does not mean they all have the same amount of money. I know you believe all sports teams should run at a massive loss but it just isn't teue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: That's how it already is in the NFL and NBA, and those are the most popular leagues. I really don't think it matters to be honest. Fans should also consider being a fan of the name on the back of the jersey rather than the name on the front. The players make sports. Somehow they have convinced us to be a fan of local teams rather than our favorite players. I hate to tell you this but the NFL and NBA have drafts. And salary caps. Many ways to limit players movement and freedom of choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: That's how it already is in the NFL and NBA, and those are the most popular leagues. I really don't think it matters to be honest. Fans should also consider being a fan of the name on the back of the jersey rather than the name on the front. The players make sports. Somehow they have convinced us to be a fan of local teams rather than our favorite players. No one convinced me to be a fan of the local team. It's called logistics and exposure Jack. I can't drive to Anaheim to watch trout after work. Local things are more relatable. Also, how are nfl and nba like that? Those leagues have drafts. Edited March 10, 2022 by Look at Ray Ray Run 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, ptatc said: The teams with the most money gets the players. So the NY and LA teams will dominate the league. If that's your idea of a good league more power to you. That's what we have now. Players IN THEIR PRIME go to the teams offering the highest contracts. Which fans support because MLB owners are making too much money now. I doubt we'll ever see the end of free agents. But if that's your wish, more power to you. It would be nice if players were drafted and stayed with one team throughout their careers unless the team decides to trade them. That would restore the competitive balance we had pre Curt Flood. But free agency is here to stay. Once a player is nearing their prime they can dump the team that drafted them and move on to a team with the most money, as you say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: I hate to tell you this but the NFL and NBA have drafts. And salary caps. Many ways to limit players movement and freedom of choice. They do, but the NBA has the freest player movement in all of sports. There is no sport at which one player at one position means so much as the NFL Quarterback. If you don't have one, you have no chance. In the NBA, if you don't have 3 top 30 or so players, you have no chance. It is the chalkiest of all sports. The best team wins more often than not. Edited March 10, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said: No one convinced me to be a fan of the local team. It's called logistics and exposure Jack. I can't drive to Anaheim to watch trout after work. Local things are more relatable. Also, how are nfl and nba like that? Those leagues have drafts. They’re also sports where having one or two superstars makes a huge difference. Baseball is quite different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, fathom said: They’re also sports where having one or two superstars makes a huge difference. Bingo. Edited March 10, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: That's what we have now. Players IN THEIR PRIME go to the teams offering the highest contracts. Which fans support because MLB owners are making too much money now. I doubt we'll ever see the end of free agents. But if that's your wish, more power to you. It would be nice if players were drafted and stayed with one team throughout their careers unless the team decides to trade them. That would restore the competitive balance we had pre Curt Flood. But free agency is here to stay. Once a player is nearing their prime they can dump the team that drafted them and move on to a team with the most money, as you say. How does that equate to not having a draft. Your scenario does occur for years after so teams had a set time to build with them. So it isn't the same. This is why control of the player is a big issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Why? How would you like it if you didn't get to choose your first job as an adult? If you had to work for significantly less than your co-workers for 4 years before being offered a comparable wage? No one is entitled to a specific type of job or company. You act as if these guys aren’t baseball players then they’re unemployed for life. If they want to be a MLB player, then they have to potentially play for the Rockies or Pirates for a period of time. If they just want to play baseball for a living, they can go to Japan. Stop trying to make every labor situation into a massive immoral dilemma. And aren’t you the most pro union guy in the world? You do understand how seniority works right? Doesn’t seem like pay for performance is what you actually care about. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, ptatc said: So you are in favor of total non-competive leagues? That's what will happen with no draft. Must other businesses don't rely on competitive balance for a good product so your example is irrelevant. If you are a top shortstop prospect are you going to sign with the Padres? Dodgers? I agree free agency is the biggest reason we have non competitive teams. But it is veteran, MLB ready players at their prime that is the problem. Some third round shortstop picking an organization that he has the best chance to advance in, or has a knack for developing shortstops, isn't going to be as big an issue as Seager moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: How does that equate to not having a draft. Your scenario does occur for years after so teams had a set time to build with them. So it isn't the same. This is why control of the player is a big issue. My proposal is that we run the domestic player acquisition similarly to how International free agency is done and fix the bullshit. No team contact before sr. year of HS. Edited March 10, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Texsox said: If you are a top shortstop prospect are you going to sign with the Padres? Dodgers? I agree free agency is the biggest reason we have non competitive teams. But it is veteran, MLB ready players at their prime that is the problem. Some third round shortstop picking an organization that he has the best chance to advance in, or has a knack for developing shortstops, isn't going to be as big an issue as Seager moving. You're not going to sign with the pirates, that's for sure. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: How does that equate to not having a draft. Your scenario does occur for years after so teams had a set time to build with them. So it isn't the same. This is why control of the player is a big issue. Then how about keeping the 5 round draft? Forty was ridiculous. I can't believe anyone thinks someone in the eighth round getting to choose what organization they play for is going to change the competitive balance of the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: No one is entitled to a specific type of job or company. You act as if these guys aren’t baseball players then they’re unemployed for life. If they want to be a MLB player, then they have to potentially play for the Rockies or Pirates for a period of time. If they just want to play baseball for a living, they can go to Japan. Stop trying to make every labor situation into a massive immoral dilemma. And aren’t you the most pro union guy in the world? You do understand how seniority works right? Doesn’t seem like pay for performance is what you actually care about. I do understand how seniority works, but that's also how the MiLB guys have been left behind for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You're not going to sign with the pirates, that's for sure. That's how free agency works. I guess we can keep accepting the buy your freedom through labor approach of the current system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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