The MLB lockout is lifted!

[southsider2k5]

13 hours ago, poppysox said:

No...I am not listening to the noise created by people who have a vested interest in trying to sway fan opinion.

Ah, so you are only listening to the noise created by people who have a vested interest in trying to sway fan opinion the other way then.  Got it.

[Quin]

15 hours ago, poppysox said:

Madrigal was drafted in 2018 and was promoted to the big club in July of 2020.  I don't know if Madrigal felt "well paid" or not but he would have a very little argument about being held down improperly IMO.  Kris Bryant was drafted in 2013 and after a great Spring in 2015 was still sent out for more "seasoning".  Most fans think the motivation was service time rules rather than his readiness.  I don't disagree and have stated that something needs to be tightened up for what seem to be service-time abuses.  Those abuses are not frequent and very hard to prove.  The White Sox have brought up players earlier than normal and done an excellent job of extending them pre-arbitration IMO.  

You do realize the difference between 2013 and 2015 is the same as 2018 and 2020, right? It's 2.

And the Sox sent Nicky down for the same reason while having a super massive black hole at second, then called him up the day after the Super 2 deadline passed.

[Balta1701]

13 hours ago, poppysox said:

Yeah...I saw a similar quote from owners saying they had made a number of offers to include universal DH and improvements in the minor league conditions but received no response.  I notice your example of players stating opinions is from two high-priced players who are not the average players that I have referred to many times.  Just for the record ...I hope this lockout ends tomorrow and I don't really care if the owners give in or hold firm.  I enjoyed baseball better when my players stayed on the WS and were associated with the WS team.  This new era of players playing for the highest bidder will ultimately ruin the game.  

Having looked today, I would like to see these reports you say exist, because I can’t find them.

The owners have made 2 offers involving a universal DH, one that includes a $180 million salary cap offered over the summer and one last January for a shortened season with longer playoffs irrelevant to this actual lockout. It would also be surprising if the owners were making any proposals to the union about minor league conditions because most of those players aren’t in the union - most of those would have to do with the fact that the owners are both violating federal labor laws and also hurting their own franchises by skimping on their minor leagues.

The only proposal on anything from the owners I can find from November was a plan to add a salary cap to arbitration while splitting up the pool based on fangraphs war calculations.

So I ask, please cite these articles for me on proposals having the universal DH that were made to counter the union offers of reduced time to free agency and age-based limits on how long teams hold players.

[poppysox]

19 minutes ago, Quin said:

You do realize the difference between 2013 and 2015 is the same as 2018 and 2020, right? It's 2.

And the Sox sent Nicky down for the same reason while having a super massive black hole at second, then called him up the day after the Super 2 deadline passed.

This isn't close to acurate.

[poppysox]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Having looked today, I would like to see these reports you say exist, because I can’t find them.

The owners have made 2 offers involving a universal DH, one that includes a $180 million salary cap offered over the summer and one last January for a shortened season with longer playoffs irrelevant to this actual lockout. It would also be surprising if the owners were making any proposals to the union about minor league conditions because most of those players aren’t in the union - most of those would have to do with the fact that the owners are both violating federal labor laws and also hurting their own franchises by skimping on their minor leagues.

The only proposal on anything from the owners I can find from November was a plan to add a salary cap to arbitration while splitting up the pool based on fangraphs war calculations.

So I ask, please cite these articles for me on proposals having the universal DH that were made to counter the union offers of reduced time to free agency and age-based limits on how long teams hold players.

So you admit the owners have made proposals.  Enough said.

[Kyyle23]

@hi8is, say it.  Say the thing 

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, poppysox said:

So you admit the owners have made proposals.  Enough said.

Not since November 8. Nearly a month of stonewalling and bad faith refusing to negotiate before the lockout. 

Show me where that’s wrong.

[poppysox]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not since November 8. Nearly a month of stonewalling and bad faith refusing to negotiate before the lockout. 

Show me where that’s wrong.

Show me where that's right.  Neither of us knows what has been said or for that matter agreed upon.  For baseball's sake, I do hope they can agree on a minimum payroll of let's say 100 million.  I also hope some form of deterrent to discourage tanking would also be good.  Add the universal DH and that would be the end of this for me.  In my opinion, JR would agree to all of that and it wouldn't affect him at all.  He already adheres to all of that.  I think those things could be given without JR needing to raise prices, etc.  If that isn't enough this lockout will last a long, long time.

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Show me where that's right.  Neither of us knows what has been said or for that matter agreed upon.  For baseball's sake, I do hope they can agree on a minimum payroll of let's say 100 million.  I also hope some form of deterrent to discourage tanking would also be good.  Add the universal DH and that would be the end of this for me.  In my opinion, JR would agree to all of that and it wouldn't affect him at all.  He already adheres to all of that.  I think those things could be given without JR needing to raise prices, etc.  If that isn't enough this lockout will last a long, long time.

Yeah, I can think of no times in the past 5 years where JR cleared a huge profit by tanking. Ok one season. Ok three.

[southsider2k5]

16 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Show me where that's right.  Neither of us knows what has been said or for that matter agreed upon.  For baseball's sake, I do hope they can agree on a minimum payroll of let's say 100 million.  I also hope some form of deterrent to discourage tanking would also be good.  Add the universal DH and that would be the end of this for me.  In my opinion, JR would agree to all of that and it wouldn't affect him at all.  He already adheres to all of that.  I think those things could be given without JR needing to raise prices, etc.  If that isn't enough this lockout will last a long, long time.

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/12/16/mlb-not-trying-to-end-lockout

https://www.mlbdailydish.com/2021/12/20/22845986/mlb-trade-rumors-news-mlb-mlba-lockout-mets-buck-showalter-orioles-marlins-michael-conforto

https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/astros-lockout-carlos-correa/

[poppysox]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yeah, I can think of no times in the past 5 years where JR cleared a huge profit by tanking. Ok one season. Ok three.

JR will not be involved in the next tanking.  We are talking about future events obviously.

[poppysox]

37 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/12/16/mlb-not-trying-to-end-lockout

https://www.mlbdailydish.com/2021/12/20/22845986/mlb-trade-rumors-news-mlb-mlba-lockout-mets-buck-showalter-orioles-marlins-michael-conforto

https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/astros-lockout-carlos-correa/

So the Commissioner of baseball charged with upholding the integrity of the game said they are ready to talk at any time.  Sounds very open to discussing the player's grievances.  Sounds like a huge misunderstanding to me.  Perhaps both sides should sit down and discuss this soon.

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, poppysox said:

So the Commissioner of baseball charged with upholding the integrity of the game said they are ready to talk at any time.  Sounds very open to discussing the player's grievances.  Sounds like a huge misunderstanding to me.  Perhaps both sides should sit down and discuss this soon.

He said it, yet the won't meet.  Sounds like a lie to me.

[hi8is]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

@hi8is, say it.  Say the thing 

Mashed potatoes? Orange dream machine? Poppy poop?

It. The thing.

Edited December 30, 2021 by hi8is

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Mashed potatoes? Orange dream machine? Poppy poop?

It. The thing.

The other thing you keep saying in this thread.  But those things too

[hi8is]

34 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

The other thing you keep saying in this thread.  But those things too

This sucks.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

This sucks.

? 

[Chicago White Sox]

So fucking true.  The fact these guys aren’t even talking is embarrassing.

 

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So fucking true.  The fact these guys aren’t even talking is embarrassing.

 

Seems like a total misunderstanding to me.  The commish said anytime, any place, so this can't be true.

[Balta1701]

40 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So fucking true.  The fact these guys aren’t even talking is embarrassing.

 

I don't even really agree with this. The leagues that work have a big signing period in the offseason, and then they're pretty quiet other than tabloid drama (Ben Simmons, James Harden demanding trades) for the next few months. The NFL is a bit different because they have the draft in there, but there's a long period without many signings. 

No one really wants to hear about baseball during the last 10 days of December, even if big things happen people miss them because they're doing other things. What you actually want is a big signing period in early December with the winter meetings, teams mostly assembled in January, and then the occasional trade or signing filling in holes with a lot of quiet around it. You don't want those long, drawn out, annoying free agent sessions ending in early March. You want your big free agent acquisitions available in January for Soxfest/Cubs Convention/whatever else, especially before your tickets go on sale. That's about what the league got this year!

Make this post mid-January and then you're correct. 

[Eminor3rd]

(1) They ARE talking. 

(2) This was never, ever going to be quick. It’s almost literally a staring contest. For either side to concede quickly would be for that side to let its constituents down. The broad strokes of dividing this money have been settled for decades; there’s nothing on the table that can be mutually beneficial, they both want as much of the same pile of money as they can get. If there is a pause in daily communication, it is intentional and is serving the same purpose as daily communication. Silence is a message, and that’s why silence is being reported to you.

(3) If it’s boring, remember that it’s labor negotiations, not entertainment. It would be surprising if it wasn’t boring. Ask yourself why you expect anything else.

(4) Remember that ALL public messaging released by either party, either directly or through their respective media cronies, ALL OF IT, is PR that is meant to sway public opinion in order to apply pressure. There is literally zero reason for any of this to leave closed doors otherwise. In fact, everything leaked carries some level of risk, and is only very carefully deployed. If you feel emotionally moved by a talking point, recognize that one entity or the other is trying to use you and it’s working.

(5) If all of this starts to feel silly, and like something you shouldn’t feel like you have business following or feeling involved in, you’re getting closer to an important truth. The writers will claw their eyes out because they have to, you do not. 

[Tony]

43 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't even really agree with this. The leagues that work have a big signing period in the offseason, and then they're pretty quiet other than tabloid drama (Ben Simmons, James Harden demanding trades) for the next few months. The NFL is a bit different because they have the draft in there, but there's a long period without many signings. 

No one really wants to hear about baseball during the last 10 days of December, even if big things happen people miss them because they're doing other things. What you actually want is a big signing period in early December with the winter meetings, teams mostly assembled in January, and then the occasional trade or signing filling in holes with a lot of quiet around it. You don't want those long, drawn out, annoying free agent sessions ending in early March. You want your big free agent acquisitions available in January for Soxfest/Cubs Convention/whatever else, especially before your tickets go on sale. That's about what the league got this year!

Make this post mid-January and then you're correct. 

There hasn't been any talk about baseball for about a month. This board has been dead, no rumors, nothing to talk about. It's not like that in a normal December. 

This is bad for the game, for 1,000 different reasons, but you're seeing that people just don't really care that much. 

[Dick Allen]

The guy said there was no communication between the teams and the fans, and that is absolutely true. I'm a small time season ticketholder, and it's as if baseball doesn't exist anymore, and will probably be like that for a while. I hope they aren't stupid enough to let this linger to where it will cost games.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The guy said there was no communication between the teams and the fans, and that is absolutely true. I'm a small time season ticketholder, and it's as if baseball doesn't exist anymore, and will probably be like that for a while. I hope they aren't stupid enough to let this linger to where it will cost games.

Well let me put it this way.  There has been no communication between me and the team either.  Typically I would have bought the holiday special they did with six tickets in a package for a huge discount to next years game.  But with the players locked out, there was no way.  I also told the family not to buy me any baseball stuff for the holidays.  If they are locked out, I am locked out.

[Balta1701]

20 minutes ago, Tony said:

There hasn't been any talk about baseball for about a month. This board has been dead, no rumors, nothing to talk about. It's not like that in a normal December. 

This is bad for the game, for 1,000 different reasons, but you're seeing that people just don't really care that much. 

Well no it’s not like that in a normal December, but the winter meetings are usually in December and it would be nice if that was when most offseason business happened. 80% of business should be done by like December 15, if the business side was working. 

Baseball boards should have very little To talk about from December 20 through January 3 or so. No team visits, no rumors. The audience isn’t even paying attention, it’s a bad time for any press. Mid January things can pick up a bit, but not with signings, instead that should be team conventions and gearing up for Spring Training. 

The fact that there was so much going on in January and February is a symptom of the problem with baseball’s business side.