The MLB lockout is lifted!

[Tnetennba]

 

[Bob Sacamano]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/01/passan-on-cba-negotiations.html
 

“Earliest negotiations will ramp up this time is late until January.”

wtf 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Bob Sacamano

[poppysox]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:43 AM, oldsox said:

Give money to Yanks and Dodgers?

Having a $100,000,000 floor solves a lot of problems, tanking included.  If this thing gets too complicated, greed and anger take over and it might not get fixed until mid-summer.

Yep...the more they are able to shrink the variance between the lowest and highest payroll the better.  True competitive balance solves all this tanking nonsense and allows a fair playing field for all.  Major markets will always need to support their little market rivals...but that should have been known when we started to allow small markets into the game with expansion.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

 

Well thank god we silenced Ken Ros... oh.

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Well thank god we silenced Ken Ros... oh.

It is so similar to 2020, in that Manfred thought he was being a genius by waiting to negotiate until July suddenly found that the players were not moved at all by it and just demanded the original deal be put in place.

 

[ron883]

Remember that one time in one of the police/political threads where greg had a concern about a star NBA player getting kidnapped by fans before a playoff game, which is essentially the plot of the 90's Judd Apatow classic "Celtic Pride"? That was awesome. 

[bmags]

Just now, ron883 said:

Remember that one time in one of the police/political threads where greg had a concern about a star NBA player getting kidnapped by fans before a playoff game, which is essentially the plot of the 90's Judd Apatow classic "Celtic Pride"? That was awesome. 

The reverse jinx

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Yep...the more they are able to shrink the variance between the lowest and highest payroll the better.  True competitive balance solves all this tanking nonsense and allows a fair playing field for all. 

Having a salary floor will only work in the margins. The mouthbreather orgs will continue to get curbstomped by the intelligent orgs. Shittsburg will still suck at scouting, drafting, and developing players; Tampa will continue to crush and punish enemy orgs through their superior FO's processes, for example. The only substantial difference is that shitty players like Adam Eaton will get even more obese contracts to suck at baseball.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

It is so similar to 2020, in that Manfred thought he was being a genius by waiting to negotiate until July suddenly found that the players were not moved at all by it and just demanded the original deal be put in place.

 

This, and pray in silence it goes away, seems to be the stories of his leadership style so far.

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Having a salary floor will only work in the margins. The mouthbreather orgs will continue to get curbstomped by the intelligent orgs. Shittsburg will still suck at scouting, drafting, and developing players; Tampa will continue to crush and punish enemy orgs through their superior FO's processes, for example. The only substantial difference is that shitty players like Adam Eaton will get even more obese contracts to suck at baseball.

Uh, yeah I'll take the bet on Cherington there.

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Uh, yeah I'll take the bet on Cherington there.

Damn it, I'd forgotten that cherington moved there....

OK, how about this: Tampa will continue to scout, draft, and develop players better than cincinnati/Baltimore and other mouthbreather orgs. Houston and Atlanta will work the TDL better than RH and KW.

Better?

 

Either way, more money into salaries might help a little bit, but dumb orgs will continue to get curbstomped by intelligent orgs. All that will happen with a salary floor is that mediocre and bad players will get paid more. We already see a bit of this in the NBA, where shitty players rot on the ends of benches, despite them not really being NBA caliber.

[southsider2k5]

But of course the White Sox are now selling tickets to Spring Training.  You can't make this shit up.

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Damn it, I'd forgotten that cherington moved there....

OK, how about this: Tampa will continue to scout, draft, and develop players better than cincinnati/Baltimore and other mouthbreather orgs. Houston and Atlanta will work the TDL better than RH and KW.

Better?

 

Either way, more money into salaries might help a little bit, but dumb orgs will continue to get curbstomped by intelligent orgs. All that will happen with a salary floor is that mediocre and bad players will get paid more. We already see a bit of this in the NBA, where shitty players rot on the ends of benches, despite them not really being NBA caliber.

I'll stand by point that while there will be smart orgs and not smart orgs, the gap between Cincinnati and Tampa now is much smaller than it was 3-4 years ago.

Cincinnati's pitching development is aggressive and modern, having stolen Vanderbilts pitching coach and then Driveline's Boddy as their pitching coordinator. We'll see what they squeeze out of Greene, Lodolo, but they've done a great job scouting there since. And they have spent a lot in INTL free agency.

Baltimore I hope fails, but they took the Houston Astros FO. They spend in intl free agency now. The gap is just no where near as large.

[Two-Gun Pete]

8 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'll stand by point that while there will be smart orgs and not smart orgs, the gap between Cincinnati and Tampa now is much smaller than it was 3-4 years ago.

Cincinnati's pitching development is aggressive and modern, having stolen Vanderbilts pitching coach and then Driveline's Boddy as their pitching coordinator. We'll see what they squeeze out of Greene, Lodolo, but they've done a great job scouting there since. And they have spent a lot in INTL free agency.

Baltimore I hope fails, but they took the Houston Astros FO. They spend in intl free agency now. The gap is just no where near as large.

Agreed that some orgs will close some gaps, but this industry, like any other, adapts and evolves with time. There are still orgs that just crush it, both in MLB, and in other sports as well. [BTW, has the gap between Tampa and RH/KW closed at all? just askin'...]

 

Having a salary floor won't make for much more competitive balance, if mouthbreather MLB orgs are bad and dumb at scouting/drafting/developing, while others are just lightyears ahead of them. Having a salary floor won't help competitive balance when some orgs make moronic moves at the TDL, while others make intelligent ones. 

 

Talent matters on the field. But talent matters up in the FO, in the scout seats, and in the clubhouses. Some orgs have figured this out, while others just haven't or just won't bother to figure this out. Paying shitty players more money won't make bad GMs/scouts/coaches better at their jobs.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[ChiSox59]

Probably only have about 6 weeks to figure this out before a shortened spring training becomes a reality and Opening Day becomes jeopardized. 

[poppysox]

10 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Having a salary floor will only work in the margins. The mouthbreather orgs will continue to get curbstomped by the intelligent orgs. Shittsburg will still suck at scouting, drafting, and developing players; Tampa will continue to crush and punish enemy orgs through their superior FO's processes, for example. The only substantial difference is that shitty players like Adam Eaton will get even more obese contracts to suck at baseball.

You can't much blame a FO who is given 25% of the payroll of their competitor.  My thought is to find a way to narrow or eliminate this overwhelming advantage that the New York and Los Angles type teams have.  Let's find out who really has a sharp FO and great scouting.  I  know asking the Yankees or Dodgers to subsidize their poor relatives is probably a non-starter but it would make the game enjoyable for all fans.  No more tanking...no more advantage in going after every player in the market.

[southsider2k5]

57 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Agreed that some orgs will close some gaps, but this industry, like any other, adapts and evolves with time. There are still orgs that just crush it, both in MLB, and in other sports as well. [BTW, has the gap between Tampa and RH/KW closed at all? just askin'...]

 

Having a salary floor won't make for much more competitive balance, if mouthbreather MLB orgs are bad and dumb at scouting/drafting/developing, while others are just lightyears ahead of them. Having a salary floor won't help competitive balance when some orgs make moronic moves at the TDL, while others make intelligent ones. 

 

Talent matters on the field. But talent matters up in the FO, in the scout seats, and in the clubhouses. Some orgs have figured this out, while others just haven't or just won't bother to figure this out. Paying shitty players more money won't make bad GMs/scouts/coaches better at their jobs.

The Sox are sitting on back to back playoff births and are the favorites for next year in the AL Central, whenever that actually happens.  I feel like this has almost taken on meme vendetta status, but this franchise can only be so much of a bad thing with 2 straight playoff appearances.  No matter how you want to reframe the argument, they took what talent they had at the bottom, and turned it into a multiple time playoff team, with another appearance on the runway.

[Two-Gun Pete]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox are sitting on back to back playoff births and are the favorites for next year in the AL Central, whenever that actually happens.  I feel like this has almost taken on meme vendetta status, but this franchise can only be so much of a bad thing with 2 straight playoff appearances.  No matter how you want to reframe the argument, they took what talent they had at the bottom, and turned it into a multiple time playoff team, with another appearance on the runway.

Look, if you want to be a RH-stan, that's cool. But to the bolded, why should we celebrate something that's pretty commonplace elsewhere in MLB?

Thinking of small-pocketed orgs, the Rays won the ALE "back to back," despite having a fraction of the financial might that their division enemies have/had. Oh, and BTW, they're on a back to back to back [yes, THREE postseason appearances] streak, despite having fewer resources than the SOX.

Or Oakland, who made the playoffs three times in a row out of the ALW, despite having fewer resources?

 

See, we had to sit and watch the shitshow that included:

• 7 consecutive losing seasons,
• cavalcades of bad [Samardzjia trade] and dumb [shields trade],
• being mired in mediocrity,
• as well as a deep tank to top it all off.

I think we as a fandom can and should demand better out of an org that really should be DOMINANT in a division that has neither a top FO, nor deep-pocketed, large market enemy. 

 

But hey, if you want to fall all over yourself and throw platitudes at RH/KW, despite their multitude of fuckups, be my guest. I also recognize how "WSI" it is for you to feel so personally hurt about anyone not doing the same. YMMV.

[Two-Gun Pete]

5 hours ago, poppysox said:

You can't much blame a FO who is given 25% of the payroll of their competitor.  My thought is to find a way to narrow or eliminate this overwhelming advantage that the New York and Los Angles type teams have.  Let's find out who really has a sharp FO and great scouting.  I  know asking the Yankees or Dodgers to subsidize their poor relatives is probably a non-starter but it would make the game enjoyable for all fans.  No more tanking...no more advantage in going after every player in the market.

We kinda already know this.

 

That said, I don't think that tanking can be fully eradicated, TBH. I do favor something of a salary floor, provided that a stronger revenue sharing policy was also in place. I just don't think that a salary floor is going to keep teams from doing moronic things that cause them to be losers. At the same time, there is a time and a place to go "all in," and there's a time and a place to fold, depending on what cards you're dealt.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Look, if you want to be a RH-stan, that's cool. But to the bolded, why should we celebrate something that's pretty commonplace elsewhere in MLB?

Thinking of small-pocketed orgs, the Rays won the ALE "back to back," despite having a fraction of the financial might that their division enemies have/had. Oh, and BTW, they're on a back to back to back [yes, THREE postseason appearances] streak, despite having fewer resources than the SOX.

Or Oakland, who made the playoffs three times in a row out of the ALW, despite having fewer resources?

 

See, we had to sit and watch the shitshow that included:

• 7 consecutive losing seasons,
• cavalcades of bad [Samardzjia trade] and dumb [shields trade],
• being mired in mediocrity,
• as well as a deep tank to top it all off.

I think we as a fandom can and should demand better out of an org that really should be DOMINANT in a division that has neither a top FO, nor deep-pocketed, large market enemy. 

 

But hey, if you want to fall all over yourself and throw platitudes at RH/KW, despite their multitude of fuckups, be my guest. I also recognize how "WSI" it is for you to feel so personally hurt about anyone not doing the same. YMMV.

So more hurt feelings and memes. Got it. Yet, you still waste time and resources on this franchise.  Brilliant. 

[hi8is]

This sucks.

[greg775]

11 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Probably only have about 6 weeks to figure this out before a shortened spring training becomes a reality and Opening Day becomes jeopardized. 

I agree.

I find it hard to believe baseball owners don't insist on regular negotiations. It seems like sports teams are the only people not worried about COVID and its potential impact on attendance. There are so many reasons to not go to MLB games. I know you can get good deals on nosebleed seats and if you do due diligence can get great seats on the secondary market for reduced prices the longer you wait til gametime, but in general, tickets are very expensive and "many" people with a brain simply refuse out of principle to pay those prices for concessions. That leaves parking, which strips the wallet of 50 bucks or whatever they charge.

My point is Covid is still raging and at some point "most" people are going to get used to NEVER purchasing a Sox ticket again. Watch it on TV. However if they settled negotiations now, baseball would have a fighting chance to market itself up for the 2022 season. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by greg775

[Chimpton]

12 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox are sitting on back to back playoff births and are the favorites for next year in the AL Central, whenever that actually happens.  I feel like this has almost taken on meme vendetta status, but this franchise can only be so much of a bad thing with 2 straight playoff appearances.  No matter how you want to reframe the argument, they took what talent they had at the bottom, and turned it into a multiple time playoff team, with another appearance on the runway.

Back to back play off births that lasted one series then elimination. That is hardly what the rebuild was aiming at, we were told they were aiming at multiple World Series births not just showing up and embarrassing ourselves in the play offs. 

[poppysox]

12 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

We kinda already know this.

 

That said, I don't think that tanking can be fully eradicated, TBH. I do favor something of a salary floor, provided that a stronger revenue sharing policy was also in place. I just don't think that a salary floor is going to keep teams from doing moronic things that cause them to be losers. At the same time, there is a time and a place to go "all in," and there's a time and a place to fold, depending on what cards you're dealt.

If you have a $100 buy-in at the poker table it's a fair game.  Someone will get better cards, have better luck, and all-in-all play better.  I don't want to play where someone gets to start with $500 against everyone else's $100 and can bully the smaller stacks.  Baseball needs a fair playing field but it's hard to get the bullies to give up their advantage.

[Balta1701]

5 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Back to back play off births that lasted one series then elimination. That is hardly what the rebuild was aiming at, we were told they were aiming at multiple World Series births not just showing up and embarrassing ourselves in the play offs. 

If we are being honest - 2020 is sort of a half credit, since the playoffs were expanded there making it so a below .500 team could make it.

But at the same time, the White Sox should have 2 more years where they are a serious playoff threat.