chitownsportsfan Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, Tnetennba said: Look I'm not gonna try and look at this as some Marxist critique of Capitalism based on labor theory of value but he has a point. The fact is that it's the players that generate the value of professional baseball as much as the laundry run by the owners. That's just an objective fact. It's why when replacement players were finally ready to go and nobody GAF the dispute got resolved 20 years ago. Sure the White Sox as an institution owe something to the brave (lol) ownership of JR but they also owe it to the players that have dedicated their entire life to the sport and play it at a level high enough to generate the fan's money. If this doesn't get resolved quickly enough both sides stand to lose. What's the term, phyricc victory or some shit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 7 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Both parties had 50+ days to discuss things before they started actually started discussing things. Complete garbage. Neither side deserves support at this point. One side made proposals. One never bothered even countering. One side decided to go into a lockout. It’s pretty obvious which side is at fault here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: One side made proposals. One never bothered even countering. One side decided to go into a lockout. It’s pretty obvious which side is at fault here. Really? One side never bothered to counter? I wonder if a mediator would have helped this along? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 9 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said: You think MLB owners realize how much the public is against them right now? How much things have changed and fans are not as ignorant as they once were? Are they that disconnected from reality? Or do they just not care? I mean I know we arent in the rooms but...seriously. I disagree with your premise that the public favors the players. Most of us tend to hang around with people who think like ourselves. We tend to read the articles and watch/listen to media that supports our point of view. You hang with a crowd that thinks the players are being unfairly treated. The primary reasoning of your crowd is the owners are making tons and therefore should part with a bigger piece of the pie. I hang with a crowd that thinks the players are unbelievably greedy. My group thinks that when a player has shown himself to be really good the individual owners have rewarded their players with unimaginable salaries of 20 and 30 million dollars (hardly miserly). It is true that after serving an apprenticeship...the player is free to go to work for the highest bidder. I realize that I am just hitting on a couple of talking points for both sides and some will want to amplify their side's points of view. I would agree that the demographics of this forum favor the players. The public at large is a different matter. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I get it now. He was a scab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 43 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: I get it now. He was a scab A scab is someone who crosses a picket line and works for the employer while a strike is in progress. Has some player decided to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, poppysox said: A scab is someone who crosses a picket line and works for the employer while a strike is in progress. Has some player decided to do that? Appreciate the explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Texsox said: Really? One side never bothered to counter? I wonder if a mediator would have helped this along? A mediator could have been useful right now, because they are legitimately at an impasse, if there were time. It was not appropriate when it was asked for previously. Since one side called for a mediator, each side has tweaked their offer multiple times. There was clearly plenty of work that could be done without a mediator at that time, calling for a mediator at that time was a way to try to avoid having to do that work. Had they gotten to this point a month ago after having gone through about 10 versions of their main proposals, a mediator could have possibly been useful in breaking this stalemate. Now, mediation under a 3 day deadline might not do much. Its a good thing neither side wasted a month and a half, because if one side did, they single-handedly ruined any chance of mediation helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, poppysox said: I disagree with your premise that the public favors the players. Most of us tend to hang around with people who think like ourselves. We tend to read the articles and watch/listen to media that supports our point of view. You hang with a crowd that thinks the players are being unfairly treated. The primary reasoning of your crowd is the owners are making tons and therefore should part with a bigger piece of the pie. I hang with a crowd that thinks the players are unbelievably greedy. My group thinks that when a player has shown himself to be really good the individual owners have rewarded their players with unimaginable salaries of 20 and 30 million dollars (hardly miserly). It is true that after serving an apprenticeship...the player is free to go to work for the highest bidder. I realize that I am just hitting on a couple of talking points for both sides and some will want to amplify their side's points of view. I would agree that the demographics of this forum favor the players. The public at large is a different matter. You know what's unimaginable? If you earned a dollar every second, you'd be a millionaire in 11 days, 13 hours 46 minutes and 40 seconds. You'd be a billionaire in 31 and one-half years. Most of those MLB players don't get the "unimaginable" salaries you're citing. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Or those talks happen faster under a mediator. We will never know which path would have been faster, which path would have helped the owners or players. Here's an interesting twist. The players could have asked for one after about two weeks of the owners doing nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 9 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: Look I'm not gonna try and look at this as some Marxist critique of Capitalism based on labor theory of value but he has a point. The fact is that it's the players that generate the value of professional baseball as much as the laundry run by the owners. That's just an objective fact. It's why when replacement players were finally ready to go and nobody GAF the dispute got resolved 20 years ago. Sure the White Sox as an institution owe something to the brave (lol) ownership of JR but they also owe it to the players that have dedicated their entire life to the sport and play it at a level high enough to generate the fan's money. If this doesn't get resolved quickly enough both sides stand to lose. What's the term, phyricc victory or some shit? Pyrrhic Victory is a victory won at too high a cost to have been worthwhile. I think that might be the case when big money spars with big egos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Texsox said: Or those talks happen faster under a mediator. We will never know which path would have been faster, which path would have helped the owners or players. Here's an interesting twist. The players could have asked for one after about two weeks of the owners doing nothing. I thought the MLBPA suggested someone after MLB called for one, but the suggestion was rejected? Something having to do with the owners wanting an impasse declared so they could circumvent any real bargaining and impose their last offer? Am I remembering this wrong? Feels like those calls from ownership for mediation were just another ploy. They don't want real mediation after all, they want more leverage to crush the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, poppysox said: I disagree with your premise that the public favors the players. Most of us tend to hang around with people who think like ourselves. We tend to read the articles and watch/listen to media that supports our point of view. You hang with a crowd that thinks the players are being unfairly treated. The primary reasoning of your crowd is the owners are making tons and therefore should part with a bigger piece of the pie. I hang with a crowd that thinks the players are unbelievably greedy. My group thinks that when a player has shown himself to be really good the individual owners have rewarded their players with unimaginable salaries of 20 and 30 million dollars (hardly miserly). It is true that after serving an apprenticeship...the player is free to go to work for the highest bidder. I realize that I am just hitting on a couple of talking points for both sides and some will want to amplify their side's points of view. I would agree that the demographics of this forum favor the players. The public at large is a different matter. There are exact 13 people who made a $30 million salary last season. There are 42 total who made $20 million or more. At 30 teams of at least 28 major leaguers 798 who didn't fit into your "unimaginable salaries" standard. The players main argument consists of their share of the pie keeps shrinking and they would like some of what they used to have, back again. They don't even want a historically bigger piece of the pie. They are literally still asking for less than they have received in the past. They just want the shrinking to stop, which is exactly what the owners have been offering. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I love this man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said: I get it now. He was a scab Scab may have not been the right word. Shill perhaps is more apt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, Quin said: You know what's unimaginable? If you earned a dollar every second, you'd be a millionaire in 11 days, 13 hours 46 minutes and 40 seconds. You'd be a billionaire in 31 and one-half years. Most of those MLB players don't get the "unimaginable" salaries you're citing. Good Luck with attaining whichever of those is your goal. I would have been happy to play baseball for a living for damn near any amount of pay the owner wanted to give me. That is why Jose is the popular player he is. He wants to play for the WS whatever the cost might be in dollars. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 $568M in revenue and these assbags are haggling over raisng the min salary by $10k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, poppysox said: I disagree with your premise that the public favors the players. Most of us tend to hang around with people who think like ourselves. We tend to read the articles and watch/listen to media that supports our point of view. You hang with a crowd that thinks the players are being unfairly treated. The primary reasoning of your crowd is the owners are making tons and therefore should part with a bigger piece of the pie. I hang with a crowd that thinks the players are unbelievably greedy. My group thinks that when a player has shown himself to be really good the individual owners have rewarded their players with unimaginable salaries of 20 and 30 million dollars (hardly miserly). It is true that after serving an apprenticeship...the player is free to go to work for the highest bidder. I realize that I am just hitting on a couple of talking points for both sides and some will want to amplify their side's points of view. I would agree that the demographics of this forum favor the players. The public at large is a different matter. So, is this all hyperbole or are you and like 8 other 65-year-olds sitting in a basement somewhere, rallying around the owners and calling yourself a group? You're also incredibly mis-infomred about how the general public views players vs. owners. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, poppysox said: Good Luck with attaining whichever of those is your goal. I would have been happy to play baseball for a living for damn near any amount of pay the owner wanted to give me. That is why Jose is the popular player he is. He wants to play for the WS whatever the cost might be in dollars. This is so incredibly gross. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tony said: So, is this all hyperbole or are you and like 8 other 65-year-olds sitting in a basement somewhere, rallying around the owners and calling yourself a group? You're also incredibly mis-informed. Fixed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: Scab may have not been the right word. Shill perhaps is more apt. I suppose that is correct. In a way, anyone who picks a side acts as a shill for that side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tony said: So, is this all hyperbole or are you and like 8 other 65-year-olds sitting in a basement somewhere, rallying around the owners and calling yourself a group? You're also incredibly mis-infomred about how the general public views players vs. owners. I'm sure you are aware that both you and I have a bias as I stated. You are claiming to have knowledge of how many people I interact with in my regular life. You obviously have no idea of the size of my "group" and you have no idea if I have a basement. I guess you were engaging in hyperbole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, poppysox said: I'm sure you are aware that both you and I have a bias as I stated. You are claiming to have knowledge of how many people I interact with in my regular life. You obviously have no idea of the size of my "group" and you have no idea if I have a basement. I guess you were engaging in hyperbole. It's why I asked the question. Sounds like you have a pretty large group of boot-lickers there. You guys sound like a hoot! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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