ChiSox59 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, bmags said: I'm not gonna lie, the Braves financial report isn't as impressive to me as I expected. Yeah, I mean $104M is a lot of money. But I figured an MLB franchise of that nature was raking in much more $. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, bmags said: I'm not gonna lie, the Braves financial report isn't as impressive to me as I expected. When were they allowed to be a full capacity? That deflates last year's revenue partially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Yeah, I mean $104M is a lot of money. But I figured an MLB franchise of that nature was raking in much more $. If it is worth $2B that is a 5% return which is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, bmags said: I think it's notable that the Braves won the world series last year. OIBDA of the Braves since 2017 2017 ($39M) 2018 +$84M 2019 +$39M 2020 ($53M) 2021 +$104M So the Braves, at least a top quarter franchise in the game, has a trailing 5 year profit of $27M. To use @Harry Chappas example of a $2B franchise, thats a 1.35% average return. Not that great. Don't get me wrong, I am not really advocating for billionaire owners to make more $. I just want baseball. But if the Braves are only raking in a 1.35% average annual return, what does that mean for the low level franchises? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, ChiSox59 said: So the Braves, at least a top quarter franchise in the game, has a trailing 5 year profit of $27M. To use @Harry Chappas example of a $2B franchise, thats a 1.35% average return. Not that great. Don't get me wrong, I am not really advocating for billionaire owners to make more $. I just want baseball. But if the Braves are only raking in a 1.35% average annual return, what does that mean for the low level franchises? 2020 is an obvious outlier, as well as 2021 being impacted by sub-optimal crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 32 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Hmmm maybe. Definitely not a fan of unions Or labour in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: 2020 is an obvious outlier, as well as 2021 being impacted by sub-optimal crowds. Still though. And the Braves kept payrolls really low. And obviously we'd expect some portion of income that needs to be re-invested each year. Obviously the new revenue streams should net the players more and this Lux tax cap thing is way too stupid, but I have a hard time believing that shareholders are sucking out loads of cash each year. A bunch of that $100M from the braves is gonna go to salaries for 2022, hopefully freddie freeman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: So the Braves, at least a top quarter franchise in the game, has a trailing 5 year profit of $27M. To use @Harry Chappas example of a $2B franchise, thats a 1.35% average return. Not that great. Don't get me wrong, I am not really advocating for billionaire owners to make more $. I just want baseball. But if the Braves are only raking in a 1.35% average annual return, what does that mean for the low level franchises? Also I was thinking about a team like the Phillies. They have a great market, but have kept much higher salaries. Do we think they are doing more operating income than the braves? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Still though. And the Braves kept payrolls really low. And obviously we'd expect some portion of income that needs to be re-invested each year. Obviously the new revenue streams should net the players more and this Lux tax cap thing is way too stupid, but I have a hard time believing that shareholders are sucking out loads of cash each year. A bunch of that $100M from the braves is gonna go to salaries for 2022, hopefully freddie freeman. That $100m is already gone in a corporate structure like LMG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Still though. And the Braves kept payrolls really low. And obviously we'd expect some portion of income that needs to be re-invested each year. Obviously the new revenue streams should net the players more and this Lux tax cap thing is way too stupid, but I have a hard time believing that shareholders are sucking out loads of cash each year. A bunch of that $100M from the braves is gonna go to salaries for 2022, hopefully freddie freeman. 2017 losing money is bizarre as that was the year Truist Park opened (then SunTrust Field). Their attendance that year jumped by half a million tickets sold compared to 2016. Was there some version of one-year expenses they had to pay that year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: That $100m is already gone in a corporate structure like LMG. It likes such a bizarre fit to have a public company own a team. 16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: 2017 losing money is bizarre as that was the year Truist Park opened (then SunTrust Field). Their attendance that year jumped by half a million tickets sold compared to 2016. Was there some version of one-year expenses they had to pay that year? was probably building this https://batteryatl.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Do we know the scope of what the Braves define as "Baseball?" From my understanding, professional sports books are incredibly inconsistently reported as far as which parts of the overall operations of the franchise are reported as "baseball" (or other sport) vs. some other business. This is the trick that Bill Wirtz played on everyone for years that the Blackhawks were "losing money." To my knowledge there is no standardized accounting method for sports team owners / operators... thus it is incredibly difficult to believe much of anything other than franchise valuations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, JoeC said: Do we know the scope of what the Braves define as "Baseball?" From my understanding, professional sports books are incredibly inconsistently reported as far as which parts of the overall operations of the franchise are reported as "baseball" (or other sport) vs. some other business. This is the trick that Bill Wirtz played on everyone for years that the Blackhawks were "losing money." To my knowledge there is no standardized accounting method for sports team owners / operators... thus it is incredibly difficult to believe much of anything other than franchise valuations. This has always been the hang up. Take JR and parking for example. A separate "company" owns the lots. So is that baseball revenue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Ok business folks please inform, what’s the difference between the $20 million operating income and $104 million numbers here? OIBDA is basically EBITDA so Passan’s take is not quite accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, bmags said: I think it's notable that the Braves won the world series last year. OIBDA of the Braves since 2017 2017 ($39M) 2018 +$84M 2019 +$39M 2020 ($53M) 2021 +$104M Great post and we all that know deep playoff runs are super lucrative. And while I think the owners are totally full of shit in terms of the profitability of owning teams in general, this is not the “gotcha” moment Passan thanks it is IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 So bummed we aren't getting excited for spring training games and the season coming up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Great post and we all that know deep playoff runs are super lucrative. And while I think the owners are totally full of shit in terms of the profitability of owning teams in general, this is not the “gotcha” moment Passan thanks it is IMO. My first thought when I saw Liberty media's run down is that George McCaskey is probably watching. They opened up several multi-million dollar/yr revenue streams with their stadium...in the burbs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, poppysox said: Good Luck with attaining whichever of those is your goal. I would have been happy to play baseball for a living for damn near any amount of pay the owner wanted to give me. That is why Jose is the popular player he is. He wants to play for the WS whatever the cost might be in dollars. This is a lie and you know it. Damn near any amount? Seriously? Ok, make a living playing baseball for a dollar a day, work tirelessly at your craft at your own expense, and also work all of the side hustles required to keep a roof over your head and food on the table. Would you still sing the owners praises over such an "apprenticeship"? You sir, are full of shit. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 33 minutes ago, JoeC said: Do we know the scope of what the Braves define as "Baseball?" From my understanding, professional sports books are incredibly inconsistently reported as far as which parts of the overall operations of the franchise are reported as "baseball" (or other sport) vs. some other business. This is the trick that Bill Wirtz played on everyone for years that the Blackhawks were "losing money." To my knowledge there is no standardized accounting method for sports team owners / operators... thus it is incredibly difficult to believe much of anything other than franchise valuations. I am not an accountant but I would imagine its the same sort of tricks large corporations use to pay CEOs massive bonuses while also claiming to have lost millions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: This is a lie and you know it. Damn near any amount? Seriously? Ok, make a living playing baseball for a dollar a day, work tirelessly at your craft at your own expense, and also work all of the side hustles required to keep a roof over your head and food on the table. Would you still sing the owners praises over such an "apprenticeship"? You sir, are full of shit. Since he didn't respond to me, I'm assuming he'd play for the $18-24K that Gil Luna might make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I refuse to get too concerned over a fight between millionaires and billionaires, but it’s very clear if the MLB wasn’t basically a monopoly the players would get paid more. There isn’t really much of a debate that the owners were getting more than their fair share of the pie under the previous CBA and aren’t negotiating in good faith. And it’s that latter point that bothers me, because it doesn’t seem like the players are asking for all that much and yet the owners are willing to fuck over their customer base to claim a couple ten million more dollars here or there. Hopefully the owners will cave a bit last second, because we should all be enraged if they cost us baseball games because they refuse to concede any ground to the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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