RF vs 2B - Where to Invest?

[Sleepy Harold]

Just in case there was any doubt

[FoxForce2]

34 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

 Bro, cedric mullins is like a top 20 hitter in the keague rn. Hes not acquirable

The lowest end teams are only going to consider giving up their best player for a boatload of talent. Pittsburgh and Reynolds - The Orioles and Mullins. Why should they consider making lateral moves at all?
Unless they have a nutzo FO - which some teams do.

[Dick Allen]

As bad as Cesar was for the Sox, and he was pretty awful, his career would indicate he probably would be worth $6 million next year. Will be interesting to see if they go really expensive or try to get by on the cheap at 2B.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

As bad as Cesar was for the Sox, and he was pretty awful, his career would indicate he probably would be worth $6 million next year. Will be interesting to see if they go really expensive or try to get by on the cheap at 2B.

Maybe, I think this is worth the gamble though. I am still open to him coming back.

[knightni]

I really don't think that Cesar's 2021 with the Sox is typical for what to expect in 2022.

$6 mil could be a steal for someone if he repeats his Cleveland stats next year.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, knightni said:

I really don't think that Cesar's 2021 with the Sox is typical for what to expect in 2022.

$6 mil could be a steal for someone if he repeats his Cleveland stats next year.

See for me this is the thing. I don't think it would be a steal, I think it would be about what these types of 2nd baseman have been getting.

[FoxForce2]

2 minutes ago, knightni said:

I really don't think that Cesar's 2021 with the Sox is typical for what to expect in 2022.

$6 mil could be a steal for someone if he repeats his Cleveland stats next year.

I wonder what happened with him. I can see a minor dropoff due to a sudden culture change but Cesar pretty much dropped off and stayed there. Maybe he just didn't want to be a White Sox.

[ChiSox59]

16 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

Just in case there was any doubt

We knew it was coming, but relieved to see it.  With the 2B market, Cesar isn't that far down the list even though I hate his guts.  Can probably get him for quite a bit less than $6M tho. 

[maloney.adam]

22 minutes ago, bmags said:

Maybe, I think this is worth the gamble though. I am still open to him coming back.

I would be still open to it as well but this means that they are moving in a different direction. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by maloney.adam

[Dominikk85]

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

 Bro, cedric mullins is like a top 20 hitter in the keague rn. Hes not acquirable

Yes mullins would cost a ton. Basically a top 10 overall prospect plus another top100 which the Sox don't have so you would have to give up mlb roster talent which defeats the purpose. 

The Sox FO must be really low on madrigal when they traded him without anything in the minors to replace him, maybe they are down on his health outlook

[michelangelosmonkey]

20 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Well First problem remains the righties. You draw a good RHP in the playoffs and you go out first round, again. Obviously a McCutchen doesn’t solve that, which I’ve noted like 4 times now.

But your second problem is your bench. If Romy is your 2b, then the only big league bench player in this org right now is Engel, who wasn’t exactly a picture of health last year. You shouldn’t have been surprised when several guys got hurt this year, you better darn well have a plan for what you’re going to do if and when that happens again. That plan is currently not in this organization, and scrap heap guys picked up midseason are only going to get you so far if someone actually pushes us in the division.

If we believe...which I do, that Vaughn becomes an elite hitter...the splits aren't so important.  Yes Vaughn was bad against righties last year...but look at someone like Austin Riley...you don't get to .900 OPS for the season without also pounding righties.  

If the second problem is the bench??  I don't think you fail because you lack Leury Garcia.  If that's true...well resign him.  You can also sign someone like Chris Taylor for not too much money.  I just don't like the idea of blocking 25 year old Vaughn to replace him with an aging known quantity.  Part of this organization's peak potential is with Vaughn really breaking out next year.   Yes it's a bit of a dice roll...but man I sure like that dice roll better than last year some of the hot RF's...Jackie Bradley JR (-0.7 WAR last year), Joc Pederson (0.0 WAR) or Adam Eaton (-0.7 WAR).    

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

If we believe...which I do, that Vaughn becomes an elite hitter...the splits aren't so important.  Yes Vaughn was bad against righties last year...but look at someone like Austin Riley...you don't get to .900 OPS for the season without also pounding righties.  

If the second problem is the bench??  I don't think you fail because you lack Leury Garcia.  If that's true...well resign him.  You can also sign someone like Chris Taylor for not too much money.  I just don't like the idea of blocking 25 year old Vaughn to replace him with an aging known quantity.  Part of this organization's peak potential is with Vaughn really breaking out next year.   Yes it's a bit of a dice roll...but man I sure like that dice roll better than last year some of the hot RF's...Jackie Bradley JR (-0.7 WAR last year), Joc Pederson (0.0 WAR) or Adam Eaton (-0.7 WAR).    

Since when is a $13-14 million contract for Taylor not too much money for the White Sox…?

[michelangelosmonkey]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Since when is a $13-14 million contract for Taylor not too much money for the White Sox…?

Since they're in their window? An extra 500,000 fans at $100 revenue per fan is $50 million extra to spend.  $25 mill per on Robbie Ray and $10 mill for Taylor...and JR and the boys still have a nice bonus.  

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Since they're in their window? An extra 500,000 fans at $100 revenue per fan is $50 million extra to spend.  $25 mill per on Robbie Ray and $10 mill for Taylor...and JR and the boys still have a nice bonus.  

You’re really counting on another 500k fans with an increase in prices and potentially a strike or at least partially delayed start?

[michelangelosmonkey]

18 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

You’re really counting on another 500k fans with an increase in prices and potentially a strike or at least partially delayed start?

Seems like White Sox attendance baseline is about 20,000 fans a game.  When they are really good...mid 90's, mid 00's...they averaged over 30,000 a game.  Last year after they opened up to full attendance it was 27,000 a game...with still some COVID hesitancy.   At the peak, 2006 they drew more than 36,000  a game.  I think this is a very exciting team, Cubs are on the downside, people are ready for sports again...an average attendance over the next five years of 32,000 fans a game doesn't seem aggressive.  That's 12,000 a game over 80 games means more than a million additional fans (from baseline which I'm sure is how JR sees it for budgeting purposes).  A million extra fans with all ancillary spending would suggest $100 million extra revenue per year from base for the window.  Take half of that for extra spending and yes...I would be REALLY pissed if they didn't hand out a couple of big contracts this off season.  As for the haters on this site...we were a top five spending team in the 80's, 90's and 00's when we had a competitive team.  JR spends when people come to the game...sadly our baseline isn't great when the teams not great (like Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs who draw no matter what) his "cheapness" is a myth.   PLUS he's a baseball fan who is close to death and would like to see them win again and we all think they are close...I would be less surprised at  an offseason signing of Semien and Rodon than an off season signing of nothing.  

[Chick Mercedes]

The Sox are going to give this guy a shot at some point. He’s the latest fast track guy
 

https://mobile.twitter.com/whitesox/status/1458163335749328909?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1458163335749328909|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-6272780611530284409.ampproject.net%2F2110212130002%2Fframe.html

[Dick Allen]

On 11/5/2021 at 11:05 PM, caulfield12 said:

You’re really counting on another 500k fans with an increase in prices and potentially a strike or at least partially delayed start?

It's just another 6k per game. I am sure they got a lot closer selling 2022 ticket plans with 2021 postseason access.

[beck72]

2 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said:

The Sox are going to give this guy a shot at some point. He’s the latest fast track guy
 

https://mobile.twitter.com/whitesox/status/1458163335749328909?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1458163335749328909|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-6272780611530284409.ampproject.net%2F2110212130002%2Fframe.html

He’s more like a trade asset at this point.  Unless he’s called up and fills in when someone is injured, he could be used to fill holes a playoff type team needs. He won’t  get a long run in the bigs and would be more valuable as part of a package. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by beck72

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, beck72 said:

He’s more like a trade asset at this point.  

I don’t know about that, him or Romy need to play the Leury role 

[beck72]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don’t know about that, him or Romy need to play the Leury role 

I think Leury will play the Leury role. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by beck72

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, beck72 said:

I think Leury will play the Leury role. 

It’s possible

[CentralChamps21]

12 hours ago, beck72 said:

I think Leury will play the Leury role. 

I think so too. Unless some team thinks his improved 2021 offense is a trend, sees him as a starter and offers him starter money, he's going to get similar offers from everybody interested and I don't see why he would leave the place he's been for such a long time.

[Chicago White Sox]

47 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I think so too. Unless some team thinks his improved 2021 offense is a trend, sees him as a starter and offers him starter money, he's going to get similar offers from everybody interested and I don't see why he would leave the place he's been for such a long time.

Seems like an obvious move to give Leury’s job to Romy and allocate funds elsewhere.

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Seems like an obvious move to give Leury’s job to Romy and allocate funds elsewhere.

With this roster’s injury history I think you can readily make a case for signing Leury and another utility player and stashing Romy at AAA so that your bench is 3 deep in case of multiple injuries.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

With this roster’s injury history I think you can readily make a case for signing Leury and another utility player and stashing Romy at AAA so that your bench is 3 deep in case of multiple injuries.

We shouldn’t prioritize positional depth over pitching and starting nine spots IMO when we play in the weakest division in baseball.  The salary difference between Leury & Romy could be used to reinforce the pitching staff in some way and injuries to our staff is the number one thing that could derail us during the regular season next year.  And rental positional guys are relatively affordable at the deadline (see Braves 2021), so just worth not allocating excess resources to the utility spot right now when we have a kid that led AA South League in OPS and is deserving of an opportunity.  If we faced stiffer competition I’d feel differently, but we aren’t in the AL East or NL West and should take that into consideration when building out our roster this offseason.