All the Cubans....again?

[caulfield12]

Obvious (initial) overreaction to a potential World Series-winning homer (and not going as far as arguing for Rosario/Joc/Duvall, haha)...

 

Jorge Soler to RF, screw the issues with hitting against RHP, just bomb other teams out of the park at home like the 2000 and 2006 first half offenses.

You can certainly dominate the AL Central again for at least one more season (barring catastrophic injuries again), then make another go at fixing weaknesses at the trade deadline (which is right back to classic KW philosophy, right?)

Will cost no more than $10-12 million for Soler, compared to Conforto's bigger ask per year and total numbers of years.

Plus, you'd have to think Soler would be motivated to play alongside countrymen, so you could get a slight discount if he's already won a WS with the Braves...plus, there's the whole ex-Cub/vanquished prospect angle to consider.

Won't go as far as Schwarber at DH (ex-Cubs theme again) and then adding the LHH/RHP-killing 2B with average to above average defense (Escobar, Segura, Didi, converting Andrelton Simmons if you want to shore up the defense and hope for an offensive rebound).   Or perhaps they can afford to give Romy a shot for 2-3 months and see what he can do...that's the other option, with Leury as the fallback.

 

I am thinking that they really need to start going 100% all-in over the next two years, because the future is never guaranteed...and we already "wasted" this year of Lynn, Grandal, Abreu, Hendriks, Rodon and Kimbrel with nothing much to show for it.

And then they really need to decide between Eloy and Vaughn (both are at less than peak value, so holding on makes sense, but it's hard to see how they can keep both with Abreu part of the picture for the foreseeable future), Sheets, Burger and Collins (part of DH platoon if you don't sign someone, PERHAPS).

 

Just can't see waiting another two years until Cespedes (25%???) and/or Colas (50/50???) are big-league ready.

(Yes, there are a LOT of names here, and obviously many angles to consider...and certainly no easy decisions to make at this critical/crucial point in the window.)

Edited November 3, 2021 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

[caulfield12]

45 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Just waiting for the panic to set in when we lose Conforto....what are options B/C/D for RF, actually?

[South Side Hit Men]

46 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Just waiting for the panic to set in when we lose Conforto....what are options B/C/D for RF, actually?

Executive of the Year Rick Hahn's Right Field Plans 1-5 and 1-11 the past two seasons.

(First Starting Game #)

2020

• A. Nicky Delmonico (Game 1)
• B. Adam Engel (4)
• C. Leury Garcia (5)
• D. Nomar Mazara (11)
• E. Jarrod Dyson (50)

2021

• A. Adam Eaton (Game 1)
• B. Billy Hamilton (5)
• C. Leury Garcia (9)
• D. Danny Mendick (31)
• E. Jake Lamb (45)
• F. Brian Goodwin (67)
• G. Luis Gonzalez (76)
• H. Gavin Sheets (78)
• I. Adam Engel (92)
• J. Andrew Vaughn (101)
• K. Romy Gonzalez (147)

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[hankchifan]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Obvious (initial) overreaction to a potential World Series-winning homer (and not going as far as arguing for Rosario/Joc/Duvall, haha)...

 

Jorge Soler to RF, screw the issues with hitting against RHP, just bomb other teams out of the park at home like the 2000 and 2006 first half offenses.

You can certainly dominate the AL Central again for at least one more season (barring catastrophic injuries again), then make another go at fixing weaknesses at the trade deadline (which is right back to classic KW philosophy, right?)

Will cost no more than $10-12 million for Soler, compared to Conforto's bigger ask per year and total numbers of years.

Plus, you'd have to think Soler would be motivated to play alongside countrymen, so you could get a slight discount if he's already won a WS with the Braves...plus, there's the whole ex-Cub/vanquished prospect angle to consider.

Won't go as far as Schwarber at DH (ex-Cubs theme again) and then adding the LHH/RHP-killing 2B with average to above average defense (Escobar, Segura, Didi, converting Andrelton Simmons if you want to shore up the defense and hope for an offensive rebound).   Or perhaps they can afford to give Romy a shot for 2-3 months and see what he can do...that's the other option, with Leury as the fallback.

 

I am thinking that they really need to start going 100% all-in over the next two years, because the future is never guaranteed...and we already "wasted" this year of Lynn, Grandal, Abreu, Hendriks, Rodon and Kimbrel with nothing much to show for it.

And then they really need to decide between Eloy and Vaughn (both are at less than peak value, so holding on makes sense, but it's hard to see how they can keep both with Abreu part of the picture for the foreseeable future), Sheets, Burger and Collins (part of DH platoon if you don't sign someone, PERHAPS).

 

Just can't see waiting another two years until Cespedes (25%???) and/or Colas (50/50???) are big-league ready.

(Yes, there are a LOT of names here, and obviously many angles to consider...and certainly no easy decisions to make at this critical/crucial point in the window.)

Right on,  if our FO would have gone for Soler or even Duvall, instead of Kimbrel, we probably move on to the WS.  Braves won scoring a lot runs and many homers, many from the newly acquired Soler, Duvall and Rosario.  Astros pitching turned out to be mediocre after all.  Kimbrel pitched one inning in the postseason.  Think we should go for the three headed monster of Eloy, Robert, and Soler in 2022.

[chw42]

1 minute ago, hankchifan said:

Right on,  if our FO would have gone for Soler or even Duvall, instead of Kimbrel, we probably move on to the WS.  Braves won scoring a lot runs and many homers, many from the newly acquired Soler, Duvall and Rosario.  Astros pitching turned out to be mediocre after all.  Kimbrel pitched one inning in the postseason.  Think we should go for the three headed monster of Eloy, Robert, and Soler in 2022.

I think this was pretty evident after they lost McCullers. We even hit Garcia and Valdez pretty hard. We really did end up facing the best version of the Astros. 

[hankchifan]

10 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Executive of the Year Rick Hahn's Right Field Plans 1-5 and 1-11 the past two seasons.

(First Starting Game #)

2020

• A. Nicky Delmonico (Game 1)
• B. Adam Engel (4)
• C. Leury Garcia (5)
• D. Nomar Mazara (11)
• E. Jarrod Dyson (50)

2021

• A. Adam Eaton (Game 1)
• B. Billy Hamilton (5)
• C. Leury Garcia (9)
• D. Danny Mendick (31)
• E. Jake Lamb (45)
• F. Brian Goodwin (67)
• G. Luis Gonzalez (76)
• H. Gavin Sheets (78)
• I. Adam Engel (92)
• J. Andrew Vaughn (101)
• K. Romy Gonzalez (147)

 

Hahn gets an F on RF.  Soler, Duvall, Rosario andPerderson, all acquired by Atlanta mid season can play RF are better than all on the list above.  They were all obtained on the cheap.

[caulfield12]

24 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I think this was pretty evident after they lost McCullers. We even hit Garcia and Valdez pretty hard. We really did end up facing the best version of the Astros. 

Plus, no Verlander and Greinke 2-3 years since he was still really effective...

[Chicago White Sox]

22 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Hahn gets an F on RF.  Soler, Duvall, Rosario andPerderson, all acquired by Atlanta mid season can play RF are better than all on the list above.  They were all obtained on the cheap.

We offered Joc more than the Cubs in the offseason and he turned it down.  He then went on to put up 0.1 fWAR prior to being acquired by the Braves?  You really think he was a guy we should have acquired to start over Vaughn, who posted a 134 wRC+ in July.

Rosario had put up 0.3 fWAR at the trade deadline and isn’t really a RF.  Soler had put up -1.1 fWAR at the trade deadline and is a absolutely horrific defensive outfielder.  Neither guy was the answer to what we were looking for at the deadline no matter how hot they got during the postseason.

Maybe you could of made a case for Duvall as a depth piece simply because he can actually play some defense, but he’s a low BA / OBP right handed bat with poor plate discipline who would have been more of what we already have and not a profile that typically does well in the post-season.

It’s very clear that you’re using hindsight to suggest we should have made all these moves, when in reality a mix of Vaughn, Sheets, & Engel was probably more attractive than all of those options with the possible exception of Duvall.  If the Sox were going to add a RF at the deadline, it should have been an impactful one like Marte or Bryant and not the scrap heap guys the Braves picked up since they needed to replace their entire outfield.

[hankchifan]

The scrap heap Braves outfielders led the Braves to a World Series win.  Duvall had the highest fly ball hitting rate in the majors plus 38 homers, a great need for the Sox.  He was traded by the Marlins for a journeyman catcher. Soler had 48 homers two seasons ago. Rosario can play RF and is a lefty.  The Braves scrap heap outfielders defense can’t be much worse than Goodwin, Sheets or Vaughn’s  defense. The cost of these outfielders were lower than Bryant or Marte.

[SoxSteve]

1 hour ago, hankchifan said:

Hahn gets an F on RF.  Soler, Duvall, Rosario andPerderson, all acquired by Atlanta mid season can play RF are better than all on the list above.  They were all obtained on the cheap.

Did you ever watch Pederaon throw? No fucking way that guy can play right. He stinks!!!! 

[tray]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

And then they really need to decide between Eloy and Vaughn (both are at less than peak value, so holding on makes sense, but it's hard to see how they can keep both with Abreu part of the picture for the foreseeable future),

Vaughn? Dude is the most hyped White Sox prospect in decades. He should hire Steve Stone as his agent.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, SoxSteve said:

Did you ever watch Pederaon throw? No fucking way that guy can play right. He stinks!!!! 

Yet he used to be able to play CF pretty regularly...I think Vaughn's highest throwing velocity this season was around the mid 80's.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Vaughn? Dude is the most hyped White Sox prospect in decades. He should hire Steve Stone as his agent.

That's ALWAYS the reality for pretty much any TOP 3 or TOP 5 June amateur draft pick for the following five seasons...until they become more suspect than prospect.

[chetkincaid]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We offered Joc more than the Cubs in the offseason and he turned it down.  He then went on to put up 0.1 fWAR prior to being acquired by the Braves?  You really think he was a guy we should have acquired to start over Vaughn, who posted a 134 wRC+ in July.

Rosario had put up 0.3 fWAR at the trade deadline and isn’t really a RF.  Soler had put up -1.1 fWAR at the trade deadline and is a absolutely horrific defensive outfielder.  Neither guy was the answer to what we were looking for at the deadline no matter how hot they got during the postseason.

Maybe you could of made a case for Duvall as a depth piece simply because he can actually play some defense, but he’s a low BA / OBP right handed bat with poor plate discipline who would have been more of what we already have and not a profile that typically does well in the post-season.

It’s very clear that you’re using hindsight to suggest we should have made all these moves, when in reality a mix of Vaughn, Sheets, & Engel was probably more attractive than all of those options with the possible exception of Duvall.  If the Sox were going to add a RF at the deadline, it should have been an impactful one like Marte or Bryant and not the scrap heap guys the Braves picked up since they needed to replace their entire outfield.

This post is spot on and speaks of the randomness of baseball. Rosario, Soler and Duvall look like superstars in the playoffs but they were just random players during the regular season. It’s like if Nomar Mazara and Adam Engel would have had a hot streak during last year’s playoffs. 

[bmags]

Maybe Soxtalk shouldn’t be allowed to watch the World Series.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, chetkincaid said:

This post is spot on and speaks of the randomness of baseball. Rosario, Soler and Duvall look like superstars in the playoffs but they were just random players during the regular season. It’s like if Nomar Mazara and Adam Engel would have had a hot streak during last year’s playoffs. 

What’s Mazara’s average fWAR the last 4-5 seasons?

The three Braves’ players have had legit seasons.  Soler led the AL in homers two years ago.

Mazara might not lead the the AL in homers even if you placed the ball on a tee.

[Kyyle23]

49 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

What’s Mazara’s average fWAR the last 4-5 seasons?

The three Braves’ players have had legit seasons.  Soler led the AL in homers two years ago.

Mazara might not lead the the AL in homers even if you placed the ball on a tee.

Dude he said "it's like if Mazara and Engel had hot streaks" he didn't say Mazara and Engel are the leading all outfielders in WAR the last 5 years.  And Soler and Joc were NOT having legit seasons until they got to the Braves

[RibbieRubarb]

11 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Obvious (initial) overreaction to a potential World Series-winning homer (and not going as far as arguing for Rosario/Joc/Duvall, haha)...

 

Jorge Soler to RF, screw the issues with hitting against RHP, just bomb other teams out of the park at home like the 2000 and 2006 first half offenses.

You can certainly dominate the AL Central again for at least one more season (barring catastrophic injuries again), then make another go at fixing weaknesses at the trade deadline (which is right back to classic KW philosophy, right?)

Will cost no more than $10-12 million for Soler, compared to Conforto's bigger ask per year and total numbers of years.

Plus, you'd have to think Soler would be motivated to play alongside countrymen, so you could get a slight discount if he's already won a WS with the Braves...plus, there's the whole ex-Cub/vanquished prospect angle to consider.

Won't go as far as Schwarber at DH (ex-Cubs theme again) and then adding the LHH/RHP-killing 2B with average to above average defense (Escobar, Segura, Didi, converting Andrelton Simmons if you want to shore up the defense and hope for an offensive rebound).   Or perhaps they can afford to give Romy a shot for 2-3 months and see what he can do...that's the other option, with Leury as the fallback.

 

I am thinking that they really need to start going 100% all-in over the next two years, because the future is never guaranteed...and we already "wasted" this year of Lynn, Grandal, Abreu, Hendriks, Rodon and Kimbrel with nothing much to show for it.

And then they really need to decide between Eloy and Vaughn (both are at less than peak value, so holding on makes sense, but it's hard to see how they can keep both with Abreu part of the picture for the foreseeable future), Sheets, Burger and Collins (part of DH platoon if you don't sign someone, PERHAPS).

 

Just can't see waiting another two years until Cespedes (25%???) and/or Colas (50/50???) are big-league ready.

(Yes, there are a LOT of names here, and obviously many angles to consider...and certainly no easy decisions to make at this critical/crucial point in the window.)

Why don't we just sign all the Braves FAs and trade for the rest?

[Bunt Ritual]

The Braves should really sign all 3 of those guys and trade Acuna Jr. to us for Dallas Keuchel. 

That's the conclusion I'm coming away with from this thread.

 

[Kyyle23]

16 minutes ago, Bunt Ritual said:

The Braves should really sign all 3 of those guys and trade Acuna Jr. to us for Dallas Keuchel. 

That's the conclusion I'm coming away with from this thread.

 

I like your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter 

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, RibbieRubarb said:

Why don't we just sign all the Braves FAs and trade for the rest?

Because we only need one, perhaps?

In fact, that’s all we needed since TWO years ago, when Mazara and then Eaton and then Leury/Engel/Goodwin/Vaughn/Sheets were the best answers they could come up with.

We simply needed one 2.5 fWAR outfielder.

Not four.

[MiddleCoastBias]

34 minutes ago, RibbieRubarb said:

Why don't we just sign all the Braves FAs and trade for the rest?

Actual thought - let's just sign the Braves hitting coach(es) that can turn scrap into gold.

We tend to get in this rut of trying to find the players that we can turn around. Why don't we spend more energy getting the *coaches and personnel* that can actually turn the player into something.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 hours ago, hankchifan said:

The scrap heap Braves outfielders led the Braves to a World Series win.  Duvall had the highest fly ball hitting rate in the majors plus 38 homers, a great need for the Sox.  He was traded by the Marlins for a journeyman catcher. Soler had 48 homers two seasons ago. Rosario can play RF and is a lefty.  The Braves scrap heap outfielders defense can’t be much worse than Goodwin, Sheets or Vaughn’s  defense. The cost of these outfielders were lower than Bryant or Marte.

So your argument is the Sox should have acquired a bunch of garbage outfielders at the trade deadline because they happened to get hot in the playoffs.  And the only one who wasn’t garbage (Duvall) has a profile that doesn’t typically do well against elite pitching in the playoffs and sure enough did not do well.  But hey, if you’ve got a way to see into the future and tell which bad players will randomly start hitting in October then please share with our front office so they proactively add these “impact” players on the cheap.

[bmags]

as one of the only and early advocates for acquiring duvall, I have the authority to say this post-hoc whining to be embarrassing. The braves shift stuff, I get. But it doesn't take watching more than a week of baseball to admire and admit the braves got extremely lucky on some guys that were just intended to shore them up in a completely terrible division.

On 3/26/2021 at 9:55 AM, bmags said:

They probably would, otoh, they have a salary of like less than bryce harper this year, so they may be getting pressure. He's pretty bad now.

I would rather Duvall over Polanco. Now, there is a reason that Miami signed Duvall, so this is where it sucks. It would probably be bullpen.

 

On 12/9/2020 at 1:50 PM, bmags said:

Absolutely. And he has some positional flexibility.

BUT, depending on how things go we could also take a flyer on Adam Duvall. Though doesn't help our issue vs lefties he'd add good power and plays an ok outfield if he replicates the slugging he had last year.

 

On 10/17/2020 at 8:55 AM, bmags said:

I wonder about the braves and intentions with a player like Duvall. Pache has arrived, and Waters isn’t far behind. 
 

Duvall isn’t expensive if our pitching acquisitions are. OTOH, he is pretty all or nothing but the power is crazy. More of a backup acquisition if we do well with FA pitching.