All the Cubans....again?

[southsider2k5]

7 hours ago, tray said:

Vaughn? Dude is the most hyped White Sox prospect in decades. He should hire Steve Stone as his agent.

On a team with Eloy, Yoan, and Robert, this isn't even remotely true.

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We offered Joc more than the Cubs in the offseason and he turned it down.  He then went on to put up 0.1 fWAR prior to being acquired by the Braves?  You really think he was a guy we should have acquired to start over Vaughn, who posted a 134 wRC+ in July.

Rosario had put up 0.3 fWAR at the trade deadline and isn’t really a RF.  Soler had put up -1.1 fWAR at the trade deadline and is a absolutely horrific defensive outfielder.  Neither guy was the answer to what we were looking for at the deadline no matter how hot they got during the postseason.

Maybe you could of made a case for Duvall as a depth piece simply because he can actually play some defense, but he’s a low BA / OBP right handed bat with poor plate discipline who would have been more of what we already have and not a profile that typically does well in the post-season.

It’s very clear that you’re using hindsight to suggest we should have made all these moves, when in reality a mix of Vaughn, Sheets, & Engel was probably more attractive than all of those options with the possible exception of Duvall.  If the Sox were going to add a RF at the deadline, it should have been an impactful one like Marte or Bryant and not the scrap heap guys the Braves picked up since they needed to replace their entire outfield.

Thank you.  Look a LOT of people hated the Kimbrel deal when it happened, so I can handle that.  But NO ONE was talking about getting Soler, Duvall, or any of these guys when those deals happened.  There are deadline deals that made sense, and then the Brave hit the freaking powerball with theirs.  It is 125% hindsight to pretend we should have done what the Braves did.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

10 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Right on,  if our FO would have gone for Soler or even Duvall, instead of Kimbrel, we probably move on to the WS.  Braves won scoring a lot runs and many homers, many from the newly acquired Soler, Duvall and Rosario.  Astros pitching turned out to be mediocre after all.  Kimbrel pitched one inning in the postseason.  Think we should go for the three headed monster of Eloy, Robert, and Soler in 2022.

Braves gave up 2 er or less in 10 post season games.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[wegner]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Braves gave up 2 er or less in all but 2 postseason  games.

Get outta here with that pitching wins Championships BS you seem to be hinting at, Ray.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, wegner said:

Get outta here with that pitching wins Championships BS you seem to be hinting at, Ray.

I misstated that, it was in 10 of 16 games. Still pretty good.

[wegner]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I misstated that, it was in 10 of 16 games. Still pretty good.

Manipulating statistics to prove your point again, Ray?  That's just sad. 

[fathom]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So your argument is the Sox should have acquired a bunch of garbage outfielders at the trade deadline because they happened to get hot in the playoffs.  And the only one who wasn’t garbage (Duvall) has a profile that doesn’t typically do well against elite pitching in the playoffs and sure enough did not do well.  But hey, if you’ve got a way to see into the future and tell which bad players will randomly start hitting in October then please share with our front office so they proactively add these “impact” players on the cheap.

I advocated getting Soler because he looked amazing against the Sox a few days before the deadline and thought it might be worth the Sox getting him and seeing if he could get hot for them.  I get why they didn’t go after him though.

[Quin]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

On a team with Eloy, Yoan, and Robert, this isn't even remotely true.

You forget that Tray hates Vaughn with a firey, white hot passion of 1,000 suns.

[kleedawg]

46 minutes ago, fathom said:

I advocated getting Soler because he looked amazing against the Sox a few days before the deadline and thought it might be worth the Sox getting him and seeing if he could get hot for them.  I get why they didn’t go after him though.

Ryan Rayburn looked amazing against the sox his whole career, but he sucked non the less.

[fathom]

45 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

Ryan Rayburn looked amazing against the sox his whole career, but he sucked non the less.

Or he’s a proven power hitter that had an awful start to the season and was showing signs of breaking out of it.  He was basically the anti-Adam Frazier.

[kleedawg]

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Or he’s a proven power hitter that had an awful start to the season and was showing signs of breaking out of it.  He was basically the anti-Adam Frazier.

I think you missed my point.

[KipWellsFan]

This is silly.

The sample sizes are so small. Take for example, Jorge Soler. He actually had a poor NLDS. He went 1/13. If you port that result over to the ALDS, we would have done even worse against the Astros!

Simply put, we lost in the playoffs cause our starting pitching was poor. The ERA of our starters was 10.22. Sure it would have been nice to have a better person to stick in RF and 2B the whole time. But it wouldn't have really mattered.

Maybe having a few better players to fill in at RF and 2B after the trade deadline could have pushed us over the top to get home-field advantage. But I doubt it. And it's not like we didn't try. All of those Braves players, except for Duvall, actually had a lower OPS than Cesar Hernandes when they were traded. We had rotten luck with Cesar.

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, Quin said:

You forget that Tray hates Vaughn with a firey, white hot passion of 1,000 suns.

So to make him look bad he is lying to hype him up?  That is dedication to a craft.

[hi8is]

7 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

On a team with Eloy, Yoan, and Robert, this isn't even remotely true.

Consider who you’re speaking to.

[macsandz]

17 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Right on,  if our FO would have gone for Soler or even Duvall, instead of Kimbrel, we probably move on to the WS.  Braves won scoring a lot runs and many homers, many from the newly acquired Soler, Duvall and Rosario.  Astros pitching turned out to be mediocre after all.  Kimbrel pitched one inning in the postseason.  Think we should go for the three headed monster of Eloy, Robert, and Soler in 2022.

Can we change the name of the thread to "Recency Bias" ?

[kitekrazy]

They'll probably go for more veteran NL talent that doesn't produce for them.

How a MLB team pans out in the end of a season is the least predictable in pro sports.

No one was gung ho over the 2004 offseason acquisitions.  Another WS was in the bag after getting Thome.

There's plenty of coulda, woulda, shoulda, when it comes to the trade deadline.  The Sox didn't have much to trade and some teams probably avoided trading with them for competitive reasons.

 I think this organization is back to thinking they can out hit their deficiencies.

[hi8is]

3 hours ago, KipWellsFan said:

If you port that result over to the ALDS, we would have done even worse against the Astros!

Comparing results from hitting against the Dodgers pitching staff vs the BitchAsstros seems silly.

[hankchifan]

16 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So your argument is the Sox should have acquired a bunch of garbage outfielders at the trade deadline because they happened to get hot in the playoffs.  And the only one who wasn’t garbage (Duvall) has a profile that doesn’t typically do well against elite pitching in the playoffs and sure enough did not do well.  But hey, if you’ve got a way to see into the future and tell which bad players will randomly start hitting in October then please share with our front office so they proactively add these “impact” players on the cheap.

I was only arguing for only one of the three (Duvall, Rosario or Soler) for RF mid season acquisition to add more pop and stabilize our RF merry go round.

[hankchifan]

On 11/2/2021 at 9:56 PM, caulfield12 said:

Obvious (initial) overreaction to a potential World Series-winning homer (and not going as far as arguing for Rosario/Joc/Duvall, haha)...

 

Jorge Soler to RF, screw the issues with hitting against RHP, just bomb other teams out of the park at home like the 2000 and 2006 first half offenses.

You can certainly dominate the AL Central again for at least one more season (barring catastrophic injuries again), then make another go at fixing weaknesses at the trade deadline (which is right back to classic KW philosophy, right?)

Will cost no more than $10-12 million for Soler, compared to Conforto's bigger ask per year and total numbers of years.

Plus, you'd have to think Soler would be motivated to play alongside countrymen, so you could get a slight discount if he's already won a WS with the Braves...plus, there's the whole ex-Cub/vanquished prospect angle to consider.

Won't go as far as Schwarber at DH (ex-Cubs theme again) and then adding the LHH/RHP-killing 2B with average to above average defense (Escobar, Segura, Didi, converting Andrelton Simmons if you want to shore up the defense and hope for an offensive rebound).   Or perhaps they can afford to give Romy a shot for 2-3 months and see what he can do...that's the other option, with Leury as the fallback.

 

I am thinking that they really need to start going 100% all-in over the next two years, because the future is never guaranteed...and we already "wasted" this year of Lynn, Grandal, Abreu, Hendriks, Rodon and Kimbrel with nothing much to show for it.

And then they really need to decide between Eloy and Vaughn (both are at less than peak value, so holding on makes sense, but it's hard to see how they can keep both with Abreu part of the picture for the foreseeable future), Sheets, Burger and Collins (part of DH platoon if you don't sign someone, PERHAPS).

 

Just can't see waiting another two years until Cespedes (25%???) and/or Colas (50/50???) are big-league ready.

(Yes, there are a LOT of names here, and obviously many angles to consider...and certainly no easy decisions to make at this critical/crucial point in the window.)

Should we change the name of the team to the Chicago Cuban Sox?  If we add Soler to Abreu, Moncada, Grandal and Robert, we would have a majority of 5 Cubans in our starting line up.⚾️????

Edited November 4, 2021 by hankchifan

[caulfield12]

6 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Should we change the name of the team to the Chicago Cuban Sox?  If we add Soler to Abreu, Moncada, Grandal and Robert, we would have a majority of 5 Cubans in our starting line up.⚾️????

Don’t forget Cespedes and Colas…

[poppysox]

17 hours ago, KipWellsFan said:

This is silly.

The sample sizes are so small. Take for example, Jorge Soler. He actually had a poor NLDS. He went 1/13. If you port that result over to the ALDS, we would have done even worse against the Astros!

Simply put, we lost in the playoffs cause our starting pitching was poor. The ERA of our starters was 10.22. Sure it would have been nice to have a better person to stick in RF and 2B the whole time. But it wouldn't have really mattered.

Maybe having a few better players to fill in at RF and 2B after the trade deadline could have pushed us over the top to get home-field advantage. But I doubt it. And it's not like we didn't try. All of those Braves players, except for Duvall, actually had a lower OPS than Cesar Hernandes when they were traded. We had rotten luck with Cesar.

I agree with you. Good post.

[KipWellsFan]

14 hours ago, hi8is said:

Comparing results from hitting against the Dodgers pitching staff vs the BitchAsstros seems silly.

That's kind of my point!

[South Side Hit Men]

13 hours ago, hankchifan said:

Should we change the name of the team to the Chicago Cuban Sox?  If we add Soler to Abreu, Moncada, Grandal and Robert, we would have a majority of 5 Cubans in our starting line up.⚾️????

Acquire Yordan Alvarez, Randy Arozarena, Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Raisel Iglesias.

Replace Reinsdorf with Cuban billionaire brothers who own Miami’s MLS team.

Now we’re talkin’.

[Texsox]

I much as I don't like to believe it, it seems like what we learned is get to October and hope like hell your back end players catch fire.