Where could Kimbrel be traded, and for what?

[RTC]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

b****, please. 

That’s the first time I’ve actually witnessed someone being drawn and quartered.  Outstanding.

[Sambuca]

7 hours ago, tray said:

Sept 9. 2021 story about Sox playing at Oakland:

"(Vaughn)  greeted the Cal baseball team Wednesday night, still young enough to have played with some of its current members during his own college days. But mostly, he was thrilled to show the people he loves, in person, that his dream came true.

"They're proud of me," he said. "So many people had an impact on my career that were able to come out. Just to be able to thank them has been really special.

"They're my people, they're my favorite people, and it doesn't matter what level I'm at, it's just great to see them under any circumstance."

------------

Yea, Vaughn might not mind coming home to CA. Perhaps a package of Kimbrel plus Vaughn might net a few decent players from the Dodgers.

 

 

Was sure this was a Caulfield post until the bottom part. 

[Sambuca]

8 hours ago, tray said:

Yea, Vaughn might not mind coming home to CA. Perhaps a package of Kimbrel plus Vaughn might net a few decent players from the Dodgers.

As far as your signature part of the post, the Sox intention is to trade Kimbrel for a “few decent players.”

Suggesting they just casually throw in Vaughn alongside Kimbrel for a “few decent players” is honestly ridiculous.  

Your bias is so strong you’re literally ignoring the reality of Vaughn’s value, not only to the Sox, but to the rest of the league.

[Sarava]

On 12/18/2021 at 6:09 PM, poppysox said:

So he was overpaid and didn't produce...therefore cut.  The situations are the same but just don't fit your narrative.

The Eaton situation isn't exactly Jerry throwing money around. Quite the opposite actually. At the point he was cut - you're going to pay him the rest of his salary, whether he gets cuts or stays. There's no choice.

Where the choice was made, likely heavily influence by Jerry, was the previous winter when they decided to go dollar store shopping for a right fielder and signed Adam Eaton. Or you could go back a couple years before that when they decided to not sign Bryce Harper.

[tray]

On 12/18/2021 at 8:07 PM, Sambuca said:

As far as your signature part of the post, the Sox intention is to trade Kimbrel for a “few decent players.”

Suggesting they just casually throw in Vaughn alongside Kimbrel for a “few decent players” is honestly ridiculous.  

Your bias is so strong you’re literally ignoring the reality of Vaughn’s value, not only to the Sox, but to the rest of the league.

Your post is provocative, well off the mark, and unnecessary.  Your accusation of bias is based on false assumptions. I evaluate [players, including Vaughn, based on their statistics and what I see of them in person when I  attend games.

I posted  a link  where Vaughn discussed his closeness with his people, including old teammates at Cal. No surprise, Vaughn lived in California and may still live there.  If so, he would be no different that any other major league  player who wants to spend as much time with their friends and family as possible. Another fact: The NL could adopt the DH making  Vaughn a more valuable trade chip.

Players like Lux or Cody Bellinger could be trade targets. Both of them had up and down seasons with the Dodgers. They are both pretty decent.

Vaughn for Cody Bellinger?   I  would be pleased with that trade for several reasons having nothing to do with bias. Do you think Vaughn is better than Bellinger or that Vaughn would be a better fit in RF?

If Bellinger and/or Lux were on the table I would be pleased if the Sox included ( "threw in"  as you phrased it) Kimbrel.... provided that the Dodgers paid his 16 Million salary and included another player or a prospect.

I am just floating possible trade scenarios ... no different than any other fan does at this time of the year wishing to engage in friendly conversation.

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by tray

[tray]

Is Vaughn a player that  you think should be deemed off limits to any  team  that may want to make a trade for him ?

 

[Dick Allen]

5 hours ago, tray said:

Is Vaughn a player that  you think should be deemed off limits to any  team  that may want to make a trade for him ?

 

Vaughn shouldn't be traded for a guy who has hit under .200 the last 2 seasons combined, with 2 years of control at more than $15 million per year. If Bellinger was a White Sox, you would hate him, and would be whining why didn't Hahn trade him when he was MVP.

[bmags]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Vaughn shouldn't be traded for a guy who has hit under .200 the last 2 seasons combined, with 2 years of control at more than $15 million per year. If Bellinger was a White Sox, you would hate him, and would be whining why didn't Hahn trade him when he was MVP.

It's also one of those things where the dodgers being willing to trade bellinger would mean they don't think he's bouncing back either (normal bellinger with his versatility and bat >> even a very good outcome for Vaughn), so you should think twice anyway.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

It's funny no one brings up the fact Vaughn was a 0.3 WAR player in 127 games.  If he wore different laundry it would be evidence that he sucks but he wears White Sox laundry so it gets explained away. The truth is he's a limited player.  He's a right handed hitting 1B.  He's a bad outfielder and just because he didn't end up like a  flounder in a net doesn't make him good.  He's slow, he gets bad jumps, takes poor routes and his arm is well below avg. He's a bat only player.  Now it's a really good bat but there are other players with really good bats who also provide positional value so proposing they trade Vaughn isn't some crazy off the wall suggestion and it's not like people didn't say this situation could occur when he was drafted. 

[Tony]

1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's funny no one brings up the fact Vaughn was a 0.3 WAR player in 127 games.  If he wore different laundry it would be evidence that he sucks but he wears White Sox laundry so it gets explained away. The truth is he's a limited player.  He's a right handed hitting 1B.  He's a bad outfielder and just because he didn't end up like a  flounder in a net doesn't make him good.  He's slow, he gets bad jumps, takes poor routes and his arm is well below avg. He's a bat only player.  Now it's a really good bat but there are other players with really good bats who also provide positional value so proposing they trade Vaughn isn't some crazy off the wall suggestion and it's not like people didn't say this situation could occur when he was drafted. 

Who is saying that it is? There is a difference in not wanting to trade Vaughn because you believe in him, and thinking trading him for anything is a "crazy off the wall suggestion" 

[Quin]

9 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's funny no one brings up the fact Vaughn was a 0.3 WAR player in 127 games.  If he wore different laundry it would be evidence that he sucks but he wears White Sox laundry so it gets explained away. The truth is he's a limited player.  He's a right handed hitting 1B.  He's a bad outfielder and just because he didn't end up like a  flounder in a net doesn't make him good.  He's slow, he gets bad jumps, takes poor routes and his arm is well below avg. He's a bat only player.  Now it's a really good bat but there are other players with really good bats who also provide positional value so proposing they trade Vaughn isn't some crazy off the wall suggestion and it's not like people didn't say this situation could occur when he was drafted. 

So about Kelenic's -0.7 WAR in 93 games...?

[Harold's Leg Lift]

20 minutes ago, Quin said:

So about Kelenic's -0.7 WAR in 93 games...?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

33 minutes ago, Quin said:

So about Kelenic's -0.7 WAR in 93 games...?

hey hey hey.. Be nice to Harry

[hi8is]

This sucks.

[White Owl Wallop]

Imagine the White Sox beginning the 2022 season with Madrigal as the starting 2nd baseman and Kimbrel off the roster. Oh well.

[hi8is]

3 minutes ago, White Owl Wallop said:

Imagine the White Sox beginning the 2022 season with Madrigal as the starting 2nd baseman and Kimbrel off the roster. Oh well.

No.

Welcome to Soxtalk!

[poppysox]

9 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's funny no one brings up the fact Vaughn was a 0.3 WAR player in 127 games.  If he wore different laundry it would be evidence that he sucks but he wears White Sox laundry so it gets explained away. The truth is he's a limited player.  He's a right handed hitting 1B.  He's a bad outfielder and just because he didn't end up like a  flounder in a net doesn't make him good.  He's slow, he gets bad jumps, takes poor routes and his arm is well below avg. He's a bat only player.  Now it's a really good bat but there are other players with really good bats who also provide positional value so proposing they trade Vaughn isn't some crazy off the wall suggestion and it's not like people didn't say this situation could occur when he was drafted. 

FYI it is not easy to get a flounder in a net.

[Sambuca]

21 hours ago, tray said:

Is Vaughn a player that  you think should be deemed off limits to any  team  that may want to make a trade for him ?

 

No, I don’t think that at all.  But damn, this question is provocative.

[Sambuca]

11 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's funny no one brings up the fact Vaughn was a 0.3 WAR player in 127 games.  If he wore different laundry it would be evidence that he sucks but he wears White Sox laundry so it gets explained away. The truth is he's a limited player.  He's a right handed hitting 1B.  He's a bad outfielder and just because he didn't end up like a  flounder in a net doesn't make him good.  He's slow, he gets bad jumps, takes poor routes and his arm is well below avg. He's a bat only player.  Now it's a really good bat but there are other players with really good bats who also provide positional value so proposing they trade Vaughn isn't some crazy off the wall suggestion and it's not like people didn't say this situation could occur when he was drafted. 

I am not saying he’s a good OF, but using his OF skills to diminish his value is not fair.  

He was drafted to be a 1B, was expected play 1B exclusively, and literally learned how to play OF on the fly, in his first season in MLB.  Not to mention, his time in the minors to hone his hitting craft was non-existent.  The fact that he had to learn how to hit MLB pitching, essentially skipping the minors, while playing a position nothing remotely close to the 1B tells me how much better he might been offensively last season if he could have just concentrated more on hitting.  Or you know, spent a full year in the minors above A ball, to concentrate on hitting.  It also tells me what kind of hitter he can become in the following seasons.  The fact that he’s a hard worker and seems to have decent baseball intelligence also bodes well.  I know this stuff has been repeated a lot in his defense, but it shouldn’t be understated.  

Three of the best hitters in White Sox history have been RH 1B/DH types.  If the guy can hit like many believe he can, no one will be complaining about his position or handedness. 

A lot of White Sox and fans of other teams are clamoring to give Castellanos contracts up to 5/100.  Castellanos realistically shouldn’t be classified any differently than a slow RH 1B/DH type.  And at age 23, posted a “pathetic” .721 OPS and 1.3 bWAR.  Vaughn is under control for the next 5 years for pennies.  Trading him and not getting another cost controlled elite talent that fills a hole (SP) is pointless, short sighted and will be a mistake.  Maybe trading him at all will be a mistake.

I just don’t agree at all that Vaughn’s rookie season revealed anything negative about the dude’s talent or value.  

Again, he’s not untouchable by any means, but the way some posters are just casually throwing his name around in trades just for the hell of it is odd.

And for Tray’s question, no, I would not trade him for Bellinger.  That’s silly.  

 

[caulfield12]

12 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's funny no one brings up the fact Vaughn was a 0.3 WAR player in 127 games.  If he wore different laundry it would be evidence that he sucks but he wears White Sox laundry so it gets explained away. The truth is he's a limited player.  He's a right handed hitting 1B.  He's a bad outfielder and just because he didn't end up like a  flounder in a net doesn't make him good.  He's slow, he gets bad jumps, takes poor routes and his arm is well below avg. He's a bat only player.  Now it's a really good bat but there are other players with really good bats who also provide positional value so proposing they trade Vaughn isn't some crazy off the wall suggestion and it's not like people didn't say this situation could occur when he was drafted. 

He has a very solid arm for LF.

RF, below average....usually throws in the 84-86 MPH range.

He generally throws to the correct base and hits the cutoff men, which makes a huge step up from Leury's much better arm but inability usually to take advantage of it.

 

Trading him NOW makes little to no sense, because you're not valuing him as a 3-4 or even 5ish fWAR bat, same with Jimenez.  Of course, that would require putting up Yordan Alvarez or healthy/peak JD Martinez types of numbers.  The big question is how close he could come to doing that in 2023-25.

[tray]

On 12/20/2021 at 9:37 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's funny no one brings up the fact Vaughn was a 0.3 WAR player in 127 games.  If he wore different laundry it would be evidence that he sucks but he wears White Sox laundry so it gets explained away. The truth is he's a limited player.  He's a right handed hitting 1B.  He's a bad outfielder and just because he didn't end up like a  flounder in a net doesn't make him good.  He's slow, he gets bad jumps, takes poor routes and his arm is well below avg. He's a bat only player.  Now it's a really good bat but there are other players with really good bats who also provide positional value so proposing they trade Vaughn isn't some crazy off the wall suggestion and it's not like people didn't say this situation could occur when he was drafted. 

Well stated.

 

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We don't need to package Vaughn with Kimbrel. That would be dumb.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

We don't need to package Vaughn with Kimbrel. That would be dumb.

Well stated.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

We don't need to package trade Vaughn with Kimbrel. That would be dumb.

FIFY

[ron883]

On 12/18/2021 at 6:48 PM, RTC said:

That’s the first time I’ve actually witnessed someone being drawn and quartered.  Outstanding.

 

On 12/20/2021 at 9:47 AM, Quin said:

So about Kelenic's -0.7 WAR in 93 games...?

Here is your second time. Who woulda thunk you'd witness it again so soon!

Edited December 21, 2021 by ron883