fathom Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Chris Taylor has remarkably even splits against RH and LH pitchers and would fit in very nicely with this team…as one option. I didn’t say I was against acquiring a RH hitting 2B. But just because someone doesn’t want to use Kimbrel to acquire Jean Segura doesn’t mean “they expect superstars at every position.” Segura as a 9th hitter is pretty good. I wish Kimbrel could have brought back someone more exciting but if it’s for him, it’s ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, fathom said: Kemp is not good. Not sure why so many want him. Because he makes $12M less than Segura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, fathom said: Segura as a 9th hitter is pretty good. I wish Kimbrel could have brought back someone more exciting but if it’s for him, it’s ok You’re ok blowing $14.5M on a right-handed groundball pummeling 2B? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 I didn't think the market for Kimbrel would amount to much, but it looks like they will get something. If it's the Phillies, send us Eflin. Still young, has been pretty good, but not great; I think he's sitting on a big season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: You’re ok blowing $14.5M on a right-handed groundball pummeling 2B? I would prefer not but I haven’t heard anything yet to make me think they still won’t go after a RF and SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Could this be a possibility, Rick Hahn asks for some cash back in whatever deal they make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) Is this you @Chicago White Sox? Edited November 24, 2021 by maloney.adam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: Could this be a possibility, Rick Hahn asks for some cash back in whatever deal they make? It really depends on what they get back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: You’re ok blowing $14.5M on a right-handed groundball pummeling 2B? See this is what I’m objecting to. Couple things: love @fathom resisting narrative that it has to be a binary. Though it probably IS a binary decision. Next - I’ve mentioned Seguras GB% rate from the beginning. Between that and avg splits, it’s not getting Marcus Semien. But he has great contact rates - career of14% k rate. That matters too, and also balances out a weakness. Hes not amazing. He’s not great, but he is good, and his defense and contact are important and helpful. And so the idea he’s specifically shitty for this team holds zero water with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 I'm guessing Kimbrel for Segura plus $2-3 million in cash? Something like that? Still think they're better off with a Kemp or McMahon (Tier B/C prospects) than spending $10-15 million on declining veterans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: I'm guessing Kimbrel for Segura plus $2-3 million in cash? Something like that? Still think they're better off with a Kemp or McMahon (Tier B/C prospects) than spending $10-15 million on declining veterans. Rockies aren’t trading McMahon it sounds like 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, bmags said: See this is what I’m objecting to. Couple things: love @fathom resisting narrative that it has to be a binary. Though it probably IS a binary decision. Next - I’ve mentioned Seguras GB% rate from the beginning. Between that and avg splits, it’s not getting Marcus Semien. But he has great contact rates - career of14% k rate. That matters too, and also balances out a weakness. Hes not amazing. He’s not great, but he is good, and his defense and contact are important and helpful. And so the idea he’s specifically shitty for this team holds zero water with me. Who is the better fit for this offense? Segura or Escobar? IMO, Escobar would be the much more valuable 9th hitter in the lineup than the guy who further compounds our groundball problems. Segura is a nice player and the K rate is good, but he’s not worth $14.5M given this team’s specific needs. Just sign Escobar for $10M/year and reallocate the extra $4.5M elsewhere. Trading Kimbrel for Segura would be Hahn trying to save face IMO. Edited November 24, 2021 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: I'm guessing Kimbrel for Segura plus $2-3 million in cash? Something like that? Still think they're better off with a Kemp or McMahon (Tier B/C prospects) than spending $10-15 million on declining veterans. McMahon will cost legitimate prospect capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) Segura is going to be 32 at the beginning of next season and will give you a 2ish fWAR at second. Now is that really worth $12-14 million to the White Sox? Maybe. The problem is that that spot would have provided the same production, roughly, and maybe even more, for a FRACTION of the price had we kept Madrigal. Which, once again, is all fine and good at $190-200 million, but it really starts to sting in the $170-175 million payroll range. It means you're losing out on a starting pitcher, Marte/Conforto, etc. The real comparison should be 2/$20 for Escobar (roughly the same age, a bit older) versus slightly more for Segura AND basically getting nothing in return for Kimbrel that couldn't have been purchased on the open market (at even less $$$ per fWAR). Which ends up being a pretty negligible return for Kimbrel. Edited November 24, 2021 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Who is the better fit for this offense? Segura or Escobar? IMO, Escobar would be the much more valuable 9th hitter in the lineup than the guy who further compounds our groundball problems. Segura is a nice player and the K rate is good, but he’s not worth $14.5M given this team’s specific needs. Just sign Escobar for $10M/year and reallocate the extra $4.5M elsewhere. Trading Kimbrel for Segura would be Hahn trying to save face IMO. Wouldn't we be better off with Escobar AND Leury/back-up veteran catcher VERSUS $14.5 alone (basically a wash) with Kimbrel's salary? Not sure what argument there is there, other than about Hahn's ego needing to be massaged...he just better hope that Rodon doesn't repeat 2021 next year. If so, he needs to come up with the equivalent starter, because Kopech's results seem like they are about as predictable as Dylan Cease's, except far fewer innings, K's, etc. Can count on those two to destroy most of the AL Central, but against top teams, no idea what will happen. Edited November 24, 2021 by caulfield12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Who is the better fit for this offense? Segura or Escobar? IMO, Escobar would be the much more valuable 9th hitter in the lineup than the guy who further compounds our groundball problems. Segura is a nice player and the K rate is good, but he’s not worth $14.5M given this team’s specific needs. Just sign Escobar for $10M/year and reallocate the extra $4.5M elsewhere. Trading Kimbrel for Segura would be Hahn trying to save face IMO. It’s really not that clear cut to me, because for for Escobar I don’t know that it’s a 1 year 10 mill deal. And it really isn’t clear to me if he is a good defender anymore, and whether on a 2-3 year deal if that continues to drop off. He’s also pretty power dependent. I get that there is a scenario where it’s like Segura and Pederson or Conforto and Escobar, and like, gross. But if we are just collecting good players where we can, it’d 55/45 I’d take Segura over EE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Who is the better fit for this offense? Segura or Escobar? IMO, Escobar would be the much more valuable 9th hitter in the lineup than the guy who further compounds our groundball problems. Segura is a nice player and the K rate is good, but he’s not worth $14.5M given this team’s specific needs. Just sign Escobar for $10M/year and reallocate the extra $4.5M elsewhere. Trading Kimbrel for Segura would be Hahn trying to save face IMO. Those medicals for Escobar though. Very scary. Too scary for Hahn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 5 hours ago, ron883 said: Those medicals for Escobar though. Very scary. Too scary for Hahn. Then if he reversed track (signing Escobar), it would be a bit difficult to explain to fans in terms of what changed/improved exactly without raising some red flags. “They all but agreed to the trade about three weeks ago, but then Escobar hurt his quadriceps. Then the reliever the Diamondbacks were going to get back; he had a little problem, had to get a cortisone shot.” https://southsideshowdown.com/2021/07/19/chicago-white-sox-escobar-deal-was-place-fell-through/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnooch Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Would Giants give up Tommy LaStella for Kimbrel? Tommy is due 16 million over next 2 seasons and hits well from left side? Giants have some money coming off payroll after 2022 ….thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 11 hours ago, bmags said: I was going to cali-clap for myself thinking I originated pointing out Kimbrel for segura but it was our @Squirmin' for Yermin congrats ? Thank you, thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 12 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said: With *this* move, I'd like to see a package that adds more pieces to help us in the future, and then our "win now" moves are big FAs. We can achieve both our goals through different mechanisms. I agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Fake Twitter insiders really pushing this Kimbrel for Segura narrative pretty hard. I really don’t see that happening unless they’ve added a left-handed RF already. If the Sox trade Kimbrel as their next move, I’d assume it’s for prospects and role players (lesser reliever, backup catcher, etc) and not a guy like Segura who will limit their flexibility going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Fake Twitter insiders really pushing this Kimbrel for Segura narrative pretty hard. I really don’t see that happening unless they’ve added a left-handed RF already. If the Sox trade Kimbrel as their next move, I’d assume it’s for prospects and role players (lesser reliever, backup catcher, etc) and not a guy like Segura who will limit their flexibility going forward. I was thinking it would’ve happened already like yesterday or last night but nothing. Edited November 24, 2021 by maloney.adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Cool story on Bailey Falter https://blogs.fangraphs.com/when-92-is-actually-95-bailey-falters-extension-adds-meaningful-velocity/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 1 minute ago, bmags said: Cool story on Bailey Falter https://blogs.fangraphs.com/when-92-is-actually-95-bailey-falters-extension-adds-meaningful-velocity/ That’s a pitching name that writes its own headlines if he takes a loss… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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