bmags Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 My bad I fat fingered adding a player I didn’t mean so that is actually 175 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Tray has a very disturbing hatred for Vaughn and will use anything in his disposal to rip him accordingly. He much prefers his favorite young Cuban in Eloy Jimenez. Eloy is Cuban now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said: I don't hate Vaughn. He's an outstanding talent. It's not his fault that he was forced to play out of position. It's also not his fault that his skill set is incredibly similar to others on the team, most notably Eloy and Jose. That said, having Vaughn in the same lineup as Eloy and Jose is problematic. I'm not going to try and guess as to what's the best way out of that situation, but it's a reality that has to be dealt with somehow. It's really not problematic if they all play well. Eloy will be better. I think TA will be better. Moncada should be better. Vaughn should be better. This offense is potentially awesome . I would be more worried about 2B than RF. It's a far more important position defensively. The Sox will be fine in RF with what they have defensively in the OF with a little better luck health wise. They still have Robert who wasn't 100% when he came back. They can still throw Engel out there late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Ok this is my improbable All-In offseason 195M Add: Schwarber Scherzer Conforto Trade: Kimbrel to Phillies Keuchel (send Jose Rodriguez out) to a salary floored Pirates Trade Vaughn, Crochet, Jared Kelly, Wes Kath for Brandon Lowe The bullpen is a problem, sure. The rays would be saving…3.5 million shipping out Lowe now but DO have Vidal Brujam Lineup: Anderson Conforto Robert Grandal Abreu Lowe Moncada Eloy Sheets Pitching Scherzer Giolito Lynn Kopech uhhh shoot didn’t think this through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Eloy is Cuban now? I think you’re missing the context there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think you’re missing the context there Nothing caulfield loves more than correcting the spelling or nationality (I know you did that on purpose) of a player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 2 hours ago, bmags said: Ok this is my improbable All-In offseason 195M Add: Schwarber Scherzer Conforto Trade: Kimbrel to Phillies Keuchel (send Jose Rodriguez out) to a salary floored Pirates Trade Vaughn, Crochet, Jared Kelly, Wes Kath for Brandon Lowe The bullpen is a problem, sure. The rays would be saving…3.5 million shipping out Lowe now but DO have Vidal Brujam Lineup: Anderson Conforto Robert Grandal Abreu Lowe Moncada Eloy Sheets Pitching Scherzer Giolito Lynn Kopech uhhh shoot didn’t think this through Not sure you need a bullpen with lineup and rotation (assuming Cease is there). That being said, I’d take the $6M you were going to give to Leury and sign a reliever or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Not sure you need a bullpen with lineup and rotation (assuming Cease is there). That being said, I’d take the $6M you were going to give to Leury and sign a reliever or two. Lol I forgot Cease sorry Dylan. That lineup does not include Leury, so that really would need some rule 5/ roster invite guys to be meaningful bullpen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Also forgot that I signed Schwarber then didn’t even start him. Overall, a great post 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 How happy would people be if our big two offseason moves were Conforto and Verlander? That means dumpster diving at 2B, but it might be financially doable without having to find a taker for Keuchel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: How happy would people be if our big two offseason moves were Conforto and Verlander? That means dumpster diving at 2B, but it might be financially doable without having to find a taker for Keuchel. I'd almost prefer the Sox play it 'cheap' right now with 2B. I think RF is the more important glaring hole that needs to be addressed at this moment. Then focus on the bullpen and rotation depth. I feel like it will be much easier to add a 2B or MI that can play 2B via trade during the 2022 season. Go after guys like Kemp, Galvis, etc. for now. Edited November 14, 2021 by CWSpalehoseCWS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 8 hours ago, Kyyle23 said: Guys I think tray might not like Vaughn and might even want to trade him How about actually reading the post which, quite to to the contrary of your assertions, states that decisions should not be based on who likes or dislikes a player, but rather on objective measures (including those I listed). Vaughn has been hyped more than any prospect since Brian Anderson. This happens often with prospects like Mickey Moniak with the Phillies and Lux with the Dodgers. Sometimes prospects live up to the hype, other times they don't. So Vaughn is what he is, and that is not necessarily what some, including Steve Stone, want him to be. My opinion is that Abreu beats him out at 1B, Eloy beats him out in LF, and Sheets beats him out as DH. None of those decisions should have to do with whether one likes or dislike players. I admit that I have posted too frequently challenging contrary opinions about Vaughn, but it seemed to me that too many fans bought into into Steve Stone's hype about that guy. Maybe check back in a year or two here and let me know if Vaughn has hit more home runs than Eloy or has won a couple of gold gloves for his defense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, tray said: How about actually reading the post which, quite to to the contrary of your assertions, states that decisions should not be based on who likes or dislikes a player, but rather on objective measures (including those I listed). Vaughn has been hyped more than any prospect since Brian Anderson. This happens often with prospects like Mickey Moniak with the Phillies and Lux with the Dodgers. Sometimes prospects live up to the hype, other times they don't. So Vaughn is what he is, and that is not necessarily what some, including Steve Stone, want him to be. My opinion is that Abreu beats him out at 1B, Eloy beats him out in LF, and Sheets beats him out as DH. None of those decisions should have to do with whether one likes or dislike players. I admit that I have posted too frequently challenging contrary opinions about Vaughn, but it seemed to me that too many fans bought into into Steve Stone's hype about that guy. Maybe check back in a year or two here and let me know if Vaughn has hit more home runs than Eloy or has won a couple of gold gloves for his defense. I have read quite a bit of your posts that reveal how you feel. It is no secret to the board 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, tray said: 9 hours ago, Kyyle23 said: Guys I think tray might not like Vaughn and might even want to trade him "Guys"? At least the opinions I post are my own, I try to support them, and don't feel the need to be validated by having others join in disagreement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: I have read quite a bit of your posts that reveal how you feel. It is no secret to the board There you go again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 minute ago, tray said: "Guys"? At least the opinions I post are my own, I try to support them, and don't feel the need to be validated by having others join in disagreement. Sure man, that's why we are both on a messageboard. my opinion of Vaughn is that he was forced early into a couple positions he hasn't played before and despite his learning on the job, performed quite well. He slumped at the end of the year like many rookies have done, and I look forward to Abreu passing him the torch. you, on the other hand, seem to feel that he is what he is, and have been bitching about him since like august when his slump began. and here we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, tray said: There you go again. Got me. It me, gotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 22 minutes ago, tray said: How about actually reading the post which, quite to to the contrary of your assertions, states that decisions should not be based on who likes or dislikes a player, but rather on objective measures (including those I listed). Vaughn has been hyped more than any prospect since Brian Anderson. This happens often with prospects like Mickey Moniak with the Phillies and Lux with the Dodgers. Sometimes prospects live up to the hype, other times they don't. So Vaughn is what he is, and that is not necessarily what some, including Steve Stone, want him to be. My opinion is that Abreu beats him out at 1B, Eloy beats him out in LF, and Sheets beats him out as DH. None of those decisions should have to do with whether one likes or dislike players. I admit that I have posted too frequently challenging contrary opinions about Vaughn, but it seemed to me that too many fans bought into into Steve Stone's hype about that guy. Maybe check back in a year or two here and let me know if Vaughn has hit more home runs than Eloy or has won a couple of gold gloves for his defense. The reason people don’t take your opinion seriously is because you ignore the fact that Andrew Vaughn was a consensus top 20 prospect across all majors publications (so not just a Steve Stone take) and act like a 23 year old who basically skipped all of the minors is somehow a finished product. Also, home runs aren’t the end-all-be-all. Vaughn is going to be a high BA, high OBP, plus power hitter. Maybe he only hits around 30 each year, but that will likely come with a fuckton of doubles. He could be our best hitter within the next two years or so if he reaches his offensive potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: How happy would people be if our big two offseason moves were Conforto and Verlander? That means dumpster diving at 2B, but it might be financially doable without having to find a taker for Keuchel. Would that mean no bullpen and bench help or minor help to both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: The reason people don’t take your opinion seriously is because you ignore the fact that Andrew Vaughn was a consensus top 20 prospect across all majors publications (so not just a Steve Stone take) and act like a 23 year old who basically skipped all of the minors is somehow a finished product. Also, home runs aren’t the end-all-be-all. Vaughn is going to be a high BA, high OBP, plus power hitter. Maybe he only hits around 30 each year, but that will likely come with a fuckton of doubles. He could be our best hitter within the next two years or so if he reaches his offensive potential. I think if the Sox find Vaughn's best position and play him there on a regular basis, I agree with your assessment. But unfortunately, next year may be worse playing musical positions w him. Maybe the juggling doesn't affect him but many young hitters struggle w lack of consistency. I hope the FO decides on IB and start cutting Abreu's games there by moving him to DH. Might help Andrew feel more comfortable and save some mileage on Jose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, SCCWS said: I think if the Sox find Vaughn's best position and play him there on a regular basis, I agree with your assessment. But unfortunately, next year may be worse playing musical positions w him. Maybe the juggling doesn't affect him but many young hitters struggle w lack of consistency. I hope the FO decides on IB and start cutting Abreu's games there by moving him to DH. Might help Andrew feel more comfortable and save some mileage on Jose. I am not sure the "Front Office" has any say in that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 5 hours ago, ron883 said: Nothing caulfield loves more than correcting the spelling or nationality (I know you did that on purpose) of a player. Kind of like the time in the last 24 hours when you acted offended when I wrote Kike (undoubtedly resulting in another timely board infractions report) because you didn't realize it was referring to Hernandez on the Red Sox...or perhaps simply there was nothing about Jose Abreu to respond to? At least you got two likes emojis out of that exchange, so congrats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 54 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Would that mean no bullpen and bench help or minor help to both? A few bullpen arms, but little bench help other than maybe a backup catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: A few bullpen arms, but little bench help other than maybe a backup catcher. I need more on the bench than that. Romy taking over 2nd with no utility player/no backup option - I hope I've made it clear that I have a problem with that. You at least have to give me a utility guy or two in that format. Add in that, and I can't really be that angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dick Allen said: I think the irrational hate anyone has for Vaugn is hysterical. The guy hardly got any minor league time in 2019, played at the alternate site in 2020 and had to mostly play a defensive position he had never played before all while making his major league debut. He held his own and until he either hit a wall or his back was bothering him, was starting to shine at the plate. If the Sox trade him, they will regret it. Saying a player was bad is not hate. It's perceived as hate when so many fall in love with a player before he ever accomplished anything except being a great college hitter. He is slow and gets bad jumps. Sure he catches most everything he gets to but that doesn't make him a good outfielder. That's where everyone who thinks he passes the eye test screws up and he gets bad jumps so it never looks like his routes are bad . His future is not in the OF. I want him to reach his potential and be the special bat that so many think he is but how do you give him enough playing time for him to do that when the Sox probably will be looking for more LHH and Sheets hits RHP way better than Vaughn. Winning games is the priority . I don't know what your definition of holding your own is but on a team gunning for a Championship the Sox need more than what he produced last year and better defense. He had 1 very good month offensively after he was abysmal for the 1st 2.5 months then finished just as bad as he started. So he was bad 75% of the time and got tired at the end when everyone was upset he wasn't getting enough playing time ? Edited November 14, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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