2022 Offseason Plan Thread

[Chicago White Sox]

40 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Sign Conforto, sign Tepera, trade Kimbrel for whatever clears his salary, sign a 2B, bring back sleeveless jersey as an alternate.

Add a SP and we looking damn good.

[greg775]

I've been thinking about this as far as offseason plan thread ... the Sox need to move Eloy out of LF and make a decision. Either he's DH or trade him in a blockbuster. Look, the guy is not an outfielder. He's going to get hurt out there. He just is. 

That leaves DH or 1B. I can't imagine Eloy even being 1/2 as good as Jose as a defender at first. If I thought he could play first effectively at this time I "might" even suggest Jose be the new DH the rest of his career. But I truly think Jose is a better option at 1B.

As much as it pains me to say, Sox need to convince Eloy it's in his best interest for a long, long, lucrative career to be DH. l ask the stat lovers on here and the eye testers both ... I think we would HAVE to agree Eloy should not see the outfield again.

I love having Eloy on the team but it's silly to trot him out to the OF where he will get hurt and cost the Sox a lot of runs when heathy. He's not an outfielder as much as it pains me to admit.

Edited March 7, 2022 by greg775

[fathom]

5 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I've been thinking about this as far as offseason plan thread ... the Sox need to move Eloy out of LF and make a decision. Either he's DH or trade him in a blockbuster. Look, the guy is not an outfielder. He's going to get hurt out there. He just is. 

That leaves DH or 1B. I can't imagine Eloy even being 1/2 as good as Jose as a defender at first. If I thought he could play first effectively at this time I "might" even suggest Jose be the new DH the rest of his career. But I truly think Jose is a better option at 1B.

As much as it pains me to say, Sox need to convince Eloy it's in his best interest for a long, long, lucrative career to be DH. l ask the stat lovers on here and the eye testers both ... I think we would HAVE to agree Eloy should not see the outfield again.

I love having Eloy on the team but it's silly to trot him out to the OF where he will get hurt and cost the Sox a lot of runs when heathy. He's not an outfielder as much as it pains me to admit.

Maybe your best post ever

[ChiSox59]

9 hours ago, fathom said:

Maybe your best post ever

He's right though. Eloy needs to be the primary DH.  Good thing is, we don't have a primary DH and Vaughn is a comparable OF to Eloy and isn't a risk to hurt himself, Luis, Yoan and TA on every play that goes to LF.  Vaughn should be the primary LF moving forward.  This also assumes the Sox sign a real RF, which I fully expect them to do. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

He's right though. Eloy needs to be the primary DH.  Good thing is, we don't have a primary DH and Vaughn is a comparable OF to Eloy and isn't a risk to hurt himself, Luis, Yoan and TA on every play that goes to LF.  Vaughn should be the primary LF moving forward.  This also assumes the Sox sign a real RF, which I fully expect them to do. 

Sox are too big of pussies to tell Eloy he will be permanent DH.  They're worried about his feelings. 

[flavum]

4 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Sox are too big of pussies to tell Eloy he will be permanent DH.  They're worried about his feelings. 

When David Ortiz got in the Hall and I was looking at his stats, the thought crossed my mind that it’s too bad Eloy doesn’t want to just play “bad ass hitter” until he’s 40. He’d probably hit 600 homers and be sitting on stage with him someday.

[ChiSox59]

8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Sox are too big of pussies to tell Eloy he will be permanent DH.  They're worried about his feelings. 

Perhaps.  I fully expect him to play some LF.  Just hope they don't run him out there everyday.  I certainly wouldn't.  I get the angle of keeping him somewhat fresh out there for interleague games and to keep his spirits up.  But yeah, he needs to DH.  He does no good for anybody, himself included, if he's on the IL. 

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Perhaps.  I fully expect him to play some LF.  Just hope they don't run him out there everyday.  I certainly wouldn't.  I get the angle of keeping him somewhat fresh out there for interleague games and to keep his spirits up.  But yeah, he needs to DH.  He does no good for anybody, himself included, if he's on the IL. 

Looks like they will lose this angle at least.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Looks like they will lose this angle at least.

Did I miss something? DOH!  DH rule...gonna take a bit for that to become commonplace in my head. 

All the more reason to park his ass as the primary DH. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by ChiSox59

[Chicago White Sox]

I think people assume that everyone can DH when in reality many players struggle when they don’t play the field and only bat a handful of times a game.  While an incredibly small sample size, Eloy has a 61 wRC+ as a DH over 115 PAs while has a 125 wRC+ when playing LF over 846 PAs.  And for additional context, his wRC+ was 70 when DHing last year in 77 plate appearances and 117 when playing LF over 154 PAs.

This doesn’t mean Eloy wouldn’t be successful as a full-time DH, but I’m not sure it’s as simple as everyone is making it out to be.  There is real risk that he struggles with a DH role.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think people assume that everyone can DH when in reality many players struggle when they don’t play the field and only bat a handful of times a game.  While an incredibly small sample size, Eloy has a 61 wRC+ as a DH over 115 PAs while has a 125 wRC+ when playing LF over 846 PAs.  And for additional context, his wRC+ was 70 when DHing last year in 77 plate appearances and 117 when playing LF over 154 PAs.

This doesn’t mean Eloy wouldn’t be successful as a full-time DH, but I’m not sure it’s as simple as everyone is making it out to be.  There is real risk that he struggles with a DH role.

The obvious issue with this stat is that it's likely biased by injury - when he was feeling healthy they'd put him in the OF,  when he wasn't feeling right or was coming back from a previous injury, those were the days when he was selectively put at DH.

[SCCWS]

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think people assume that everyone can DH when in reality many players struggle when they don’t play the field and only bat a handful of times a game.  While an incredibly small sample size, Eloy has a 61 wRC+ as a DH over 115 PAs while has a 125 wRC+ when playing LF over 846 PAs.  And for additional context, his wRC+ was 70 when DHing last year in 77 plate appearances and 117 when playing LF over 154 PAs.

This doesn’t mean Eloy wouldn’t be successful as a full-time DH, but I’m not sure it’s as simple as everyone is making it out to be.  There is real risk that he struggles with a DH role.

Good point. I think Grandal as a DH has much lower wRc+ than as a C. 

[ChiSox59]

23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think people assume that everyone can DH when in reality many players struggle when they don’t play the field and only bat a handful of times a game.  While an incredibly small sample size, Eloy has a 61 wRC+ as a DH over 115 PAs while has a 125 wRC+ when playing LF over 846 PAs.  And for additional context, his wRC+ was 70 when DHing last year in 77 plate appearances and 117 when playing LF over 154 PAs.

This doesn’t mean Eloy wouldn’t be successful as a full-time DH, but I’m not sure it’s as simple as everyone is making it out to be.  There is real risk that he struggles with a DH role.

Eloy is a hitter. He'll figure it out.  I don't doubt that he prefers to play LF. But frankly, IMO, he's removed the ability to make that choice by continually hurting himself while playing horrible defense.  He has zero redeeming qualities in LF. 

Its not some foreign concept that most guys who have always played the field don't enjoy DHing.  But tough fucking luck.  Eloy has negative value when he's on the IL.  He's only valuable when he is in the lineup. DHing him gives him a far better chance to stay in the lineup. 

[southsider2k5]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think people assume that everyone can DH when in reality many players struggle when they don’t play the field and only bat a handful of times a game.  While an incredibly small sample size, Eloy has a 61 wRC+ as a DH over 115 PAs while has a 125 wRC+ when playing LF over 846 PAs.  And for additional context, his wRC+ was 70 when DHing last year in 77 plate appearances and 117 when playing LF over 154 PAs.

This doesn’t mean Eloy wouldn’t be successful as a full-time DH, but I’m not sure it’s as simple as everyone is making it out to be.  There is real risk that he struggles with a DH role.

The problem is that he had a zero OPS when he was out for 100 games this past season because he hurt himself in LF.

[ChiSox59]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The problem is that he had a zero OPS when he was out for 100 games this past season because he hurt himself in LF.

THIS!!!!!!

[Two-Gun Pete]

Yeah, I don't like the idea of blowing a hole in the roster to "make a trade." Trading away Eloy, or moving him off LF without a proper replacement is bad business. (And no, neither Vaughn, nor Sheets are OFers.)

They've already done this at another position, and we'll all feast our eyes on shitty/more expensive 2B play this season.

 

Also, I hate the idea of trusting this FO to not get robbed in trade to begin with. YMMV.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[Tony]

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yeah, I don't like the idea of blowing a hole in the roster to "make a trade." Trading away Eloy, or moving him off LF without a proper replacement is bad business. (And no, neither Vaughn, nor Sheets are OFers.)

They've already done this at another position, and we'll all feast our eyes on shitty/more expensive 2B play this season.

 

Also, I hate the idea of trusting this FO to not get robbed in trade to begin with. YMMV.

Yeah, Dane Dunning for Lance Lynn should give every Sox fan SERIOUS concern the Sox simply can't "win" trades. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

5 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yeah, I don't like the idea of blowing a hole in the roster to "make a trade." Trading away Eloy, or moving him off LF without a proper replacement is bad business. (And no, neither Vaughn, nor Sheets are OFers.)

They've already done this at another position, and we'll all feast our eyes on shitty/more expensive 2B play this season.

 

Also, I hate the idea of trusting this FO to not get robbed in trade to begin with. YMMV.

Vaughn is absolutely a reason to remove Eloy from LF.  Eloy can't not get hurt.  Vaughn is just as good (if not better) in the field already.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Vaughn is absolutely a reason to remove Eloy from LF.  Eloy can't not get hurt.  Vaughn is just as good (if not better) in the field already.

Don't bother discussing Andrew Vaughn with two gun pete.  

[Two-Gun Pete]

13 minutes ago, Tony said:

Yeah, Dane Dunning for Lance Lynn should give every Sox fan SERIOUS concern the Sox simply can't "win" trades. 

Blind squirrel, meet nut.

 

Also: Kimbrel, Shields, Samardzija, Mazara, Durham, and many others, too!

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Don't bother discussing Andrew Vaughn with two gun pete.  

 

[Tnetennba]

Moving Eloy to full time DH would require him to adjust, but plenty of hitters have.  He’d be on a very short leash in LF if it were up to me.  1 to 2 starts a week in LF max.  His bat is just too damned valuable for his fielding shenanigans.  

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

That too, really.  But he's especially anti-Andrew Vaughn.   For some reason.  Seems personal, haven't quite figured it out. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

12 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Vaughn is absolutely a reason to remove Eloy from LF.  Eloy can't not get hurt.  Vaughn is just as good (if not better) in the field already.

Vaughn is yet another non-OFer that they hide by playing him inches away from the warning track. He may or may not be better than Jimenez.

Also, SSS, but Vaughn's wRC+ v RHP is in the 60s; Eloy's at least league-average. 

But Vaughn's questionable range and questionable bat v RHP are absolutely not solutions to replace Eloy.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

That too, really.  But he's especially anti-Andrew Vaughn.   For some reason.  Seems personal, haven't quite figured it out. 

This is silly. No one is "anti Andrew Vaughn."

He simply hasn't been good v RHP yet, and he isn't an OFer. There's nothing "anti" anyone about that statement.