2022 Offseason Plan Thread

[TheFutureIsNear]

Kimbrel and Vaughn for Aaron Nola…would anyone do it? Nola coming off a down year and there was talk at 1 point of the Phillies using Nola to improve the rest of the team 

[Sambuca]

21 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Kimbrel and Vaughn for Aaron Nola…would anyone do it? Nola coming off a down year and there was talk at 1 point of the Phillies using Nola to improve the rest of the team 

Vaughn is worth much more than 1 or 2 years of Nola.  If they aren’t getting a cheap and controllable SP for Vaughn, I hope they’d just shell out the cash in free agency.   

[Jack Parkman]

5 hours ago, Sambuca said:

Vaughn is worth much more than 1 or 2 years of Nola.  If they aren’t getting a cheap and controllable SP for Vaughn, I hope they’d just shell out the cash in free agency.   

I have no problems cashing in on Vaughn this winter. If they want to grab a controllable SP or RF for him I'm fine with it. 

Players come and go, championship flags fly forever. 

It's time to not gaf about the future. You have 2-3 years to win. Go maximize it. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Chimpton]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I have no problems cashing in on Vaughn this winter. If they want to grab a controllable SP or RF for him I'm fine with it. 

Players come and go, championship flags fly forever. 

It's time to not gaf about the future. You have 2-3 years to win. Go maximize it. 

I would rather do it now in a proper trade than do a 'Madrigal' half way through the season and lose him for under value.

[Jack Parkman]

4 hours ago, Chimpton said:

I would rather do it now in a proper trade than do a 'Madrigal' half way through the season and lose him for under value.

Absolutely. 

[Chicago White Sox]

With James saying he could see payroll going up to $200M, I've gone ahead and created a revised offseason plan.  Without going into much deal, I'd go all-in on on Scherzer and Conforto and go cheap everywhere else.  Payroll would come in just shy of $200M and I think it would be the best roster in the AL.  I think every free agent contract is fair, I think the trades are realistic, and I'm even eating $7M of Dallas' salary to move him.  Tell me where I'm wrong or what you dislike about the plan?

Edited November 20, 2021 by Chicago White Sox

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

With James saying he could see payroll going up to $200M, I've gone ahead and created a revised offseason plan.  Without going into much deal, I'd go all-in on on Scherzer and Conforto and go cheap everywhere else.  Payroll would come in just shy of $200M and I think it would be the best roster in the AL.  I think every free agent contract is fair, I think the trades are realistic, and I'm even eating $7M of Dallas' salary to move him.  Tell me where I'm wrong or what you dislike about the plan?

Yep, let’s go ahead and move forward with this one. Well done.

[hi8is]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

With James saying he could see payroll going up to $200M, I've gone ahead and created a revised offseason plan.  Without going into much deal, I'd go all-in on on Scherzer and Conforto and go cheap everywhere else.  Payroll would come in just shy of $200M and I think it would be the best roster in the AL.  I think every free agent contract is fair, I think the trades are realistic, and I'm even eating $7M of Dallas' salary to move him.  Tell me where I'm wrong or what you dislike about the plan?

It’s a fantastic plan… too bad Mad Max will never sign here.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

With James saying he could see payroll going up to $200M, I've gone ahead and created a revised offseason plan.  Without going into much deal, I'd go all-in on on Scherzer and Conforto and go cheap everywhere else.  Payroll would come in just shy of $200M and I think it would be the best roster in the AL.  I think every free agent contract is fair, I think the trades are realistic, and I'm even eating $7M of Dallas' salary to move him.  Tell me where I'm wrong or what you dislike about the plan?

I was wondering how you see the Kimbrel for Dominguez trade. Do the Sox eat any salary? It doesn't seem like much of a return but maybe you can enlighten me on Dominguez. On the surface the return seems pretty light.

Sosa for Kemp also seems pretty light . Sox would have to give up more. Kemp had a career year and has just become arb. eligible so has some eligibility left albeit entering his 30's.Kemp's been rumored to be on the block so Oakland wants to cash in on the year he had and I'm thinking  L. Sosa isn't quite enough.

Edited November 20, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I was wondering how you see the Kimbrel for Dominguez trade. Do the Sox eat any salary? It doesn't seem like much of a return but maybe you can enlighten me on Dominguez. On the surface the return seems pretty light.

Sosa for Kemp also seems pretty light . Sox would have to give up more. Kemp had a career year and has just become arb. eligible so has some eligibility left albeit entering his 30's.Kemp's been rumored to be on the block so Oakland wants to cash in on the year he had and I'm thinking  L. Sosa isn't quite enough.

No money going out, so not expecting a ton for Kimbrel.  A bullpen arm with upside and options is more than sufficient for me if we don’t have to eat any cash.  Dominguez is coming back from injury, but has a pretty highly ceiling.

And yes Kemp has a nice year, but the dude literally has zero power and little track record of plus offensive performance.  I doubt he costs too much, but perhaps Sosa is too light (I actually really like Sosa though).  I’d be willing to throw another prospect in if need be.

[bmags]

Having learned Kelly is expected back for spring training, Joe Kelly enters as my #1A bullpen target

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

53 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

No money going out, so not expecting a ton for Kimbrel.  A bullpen arm with upside and options is more than sufficient for me if we don’t have to eat any cash.  Dominguez is coming back from injury, but has a pretty highly ceiling.

And yes Kemp has a nice year, but the dude literally has zero power and little track record of plus offensive performance.  I doubt he costs too much, but perhaps Sosa is too light (I actually really like Sosa though).  I’d be willing to throw another prospect in if need be.

But what if you could get Segura  for Kimbrel ? The salary's  equal out and you kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I know Segura has an extra yr. but its a club option (1M buyout) so I'm not really counting the 2nd yr.

I know Kemp has zero track record offensively but he had a strong year but that year was last year and combined with his fielding and baserunning made him pretty valuable. Segura has a much better track record. Save the prospect by not trading for him or whatever Oakland asks for him

The Sox absolutely have to get more for Kimbrel. Dominguez has been an upside bullpen  arm for a while and if the Phillies take on Kimbrel why give up Dominguez ?

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

With James saying he could see payroll going up to $200M, I've gone ahead and created a revised offseason plan.  Without going into much deal, I'd go all-in on on Scherzer and Conforto and go cheap everywhere else.  Payroll would come in just shy of $200M and I think it would be the best roster in the AL.  I think every free agent contract is fair, I think the trades are realistic, and I'm even eating $7M of Dallas' salary to move him.  Tell me where I'm wrong or what you dislike about the plan?

If the Sox do actually set a budget at $200, that would certainly help out my off-season plan by keeping Keuchel and then bumping up the contracts on Starling Marte and Collin McHugh up a few million to where I originally had them pegged before I had to goose the numbers down to fit $175M. 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

But what if you could get Segura  for Kimbrel ? The salary's  equal out and you kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I know Segura has an extra yr. but its a club option (1M buyout) so I'm not really counting the 2nd yr.

I know Kemp has zero track record offensively but he had a strong year but that year was last year and combined with his fielding and baserunning made him pretty valuable. Segura has a much better track record. Save the prospect by not trading for him or whatever Oakland asks for him

The Sox absolutely have to get more for Kimbrel. Dominguez has been an upside bullpen  arm for a while and if the Phillies take on Kimbrel why give up Dominguez ?

 

I’d simply rather prioritize resources towards RF & SP.  I’m not a huge Kemp fan by any means, but if I can get Conforto and a legit SP I will happily go cheap elsewhere.  That’s why I’d rather move Kimbrel for a cheap controllable reliever than take on a bunch of salary.

And why do they have to get more than Dominguez if they eat no money?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

49 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’d simply rather prioritize resources towards RF & SP.  I’m not a huge Kemp fan by any means, but if I can get Conforto and a legit SP I will happily go cheap elsewhere.  That’s why I’d rather move Kimbrel for a cheap controllable reliever than take on a bunch of salary.

And why do they have to get more than Dominguez if they eat no money?

Well 1st, not sure any team wants to take on the whole contract and then give up a piece in the area they want to improve. Phillies spend a lot of money but maybe they rather give up Segura and his salary. They get their relief pitcher , they keep Dominguez, we get our 2nd baseman.

Edit I forgot to add: 2nd, Do you really want the final trade for Kimbrel to look like this : Nick Madrigal and Codi Heuer + whatever we paid him to shit the bed ,  for  a 27 yr old relief pitcher who has pitched 1 inning in the big league for the last 2 years with 3 yrs. of eligibility ? That ends up looking so so sooooo bad. If the trade was going to end up that bad why even pick up Kimbrel's option for 2022 ?

I know trading Kimbrel for Segura doesn't get you the payroll savings but it may save you a prospect that you traded for Kemp (whoever that would turn out to be) who might be a 2nd piece in a bigger trade. A big trade is one thing you left out unless you count Keuchel. I know you dumped salary in both Kimbrel and Keuchel trades to make room for Scherzer and Conforto . I haven't crunched the numbers like you have so I know I haven't thought this through like you have and for that I apologize.

Would love Scherzer but damn that's a lot to shell out for an old dude . Hard to speculate what he gets but I guess you are going off of somebody's projection. I do agree Sox need a TOR arm and one so reliable like Scherzer is hard to find. Just hard to imagine the Sox shopping in that stratosphere  . I think if they sign Conforto, use Kimbrel's salary on Segura  they'd circle back to Rodon and see what he costs. Don't know how that translates to our new payroll according to James.

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chicago White Sox]

With Thanksgiving right around the corner, I think we see some action before the holiday and another big wave of moves leading up to the 1st.  Based on what insiders have been saying, the Sox are looking to strike early with an impact piece and if I had to guess that player will be Michael Conforto.

Adding Conforto as our first big move does several things for us.  First, it addresses the need for a left-handed power bat and improved lineup balance, which takes pressure off having to address those things with our 2B addition.  Second, it theoretically makes Sheets or Vaughn expendable via trade if need be.  I’m not looking to move either guy necessarily, but if there’s a potential star that can be had at 2B or in the rotation you can now consider it.  Finally, it allows us to spend the next couple months focusing on a smaller subset of needs with a reduced scope of options (less focus on free agents, more focus on trades), then having to come out of the lockout with a completely empty canvas.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

With Thanksgiving right around the corner, I think we see some action before the holiday and another big wave of moves leading up to the 1st.  Based on what insiders have been saying, the Sox are looking to strike early with an impact piece and if I had to guess that player will be Michael Conforto.

Adding Conforto as our first big move does several things for us.  First, it addresses the need for a left-handed power bat and improved lineup balance, which takes pressure off having to address those things with our 2B addition.  Second, it theoretically makes Sheets or Vaughn expendable via trade if need be.  I’m not looking to move either guy necessarily, but if there’s a potential star that can be had at 2B or in the rotation you can now consider it.  Finally, it allows us to spend the next couple months focusing on a smaller subset of needs with a reduced scope of options (less focus on free agents, more focus on trades), then having to come out of the lockout with a completely empty canvas.

I’m going to guess if we see a move before Thursday, it’s a trade. I’d love to see Conforto locked up but I just don’t see Boras clients making any quick decisions.

[Chicago White Sox]

White initial ZiPS projections.  I think some of these are way too low and it’s clear that ZiPS is not projecting the rebounds / development I’m expecting from Eloy & Vaughn.  That being said, our needs are very clear from the chart below.  We all know the big three (2B, RF, & SP), but we’re definitely going to need a ton of RH relief help (especially if we trade Kimbrel) and a backup catcher.  Regarding the latter, I just don’t think Zavala or Collins are major league backup catchers and we should target a defensive oriented vet towards the end of the offseason.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I’m going to guess if we see a move before Thursday, it’s a trade. I’d love to see Conforto locked up but I just don’t see Boras clients making any quick decisions.

There have already been rumors that Semien wants a deal before the 1st.  And I think Conforto is polarizing enough of a free agent that if the right offer is made he’d potentially jump quickly on that.  Also, Boras isn’t going to want all his guys out there post lockout as you typically want a phasing of these things.  I think guys pursuing massive contracts will wait things out, but I expect a couple of his guys signing before that 1st.

[bmags]

Hmm, interesting enough I think ZiPs will see any offseason moves as mostly neutral.

It clearly likes Kimbrel still, and 2 for Keuchel is pretty good. I think it will be hard to get more than 2.5 projected WAR at 2nd base, which is only a modest improvement. And I'd bet Conforto is projected in the 2.5 range as well.

Get a Scherzer and its a big bump but only a bump on 2 WAR not 1.6. And with the likely just net loss of Kimbrel, it may not get much brighter on the ZiPs front.

[Chicago White Sox]

Take Alcantara off your offseason plans:

 

[hi8is]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Take Alcantara off your offseason plans:

 

Damn it… that’s going to be a flipping steal.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

Damn it… that’s going to be a flipping steal.

Yup.  We should be looking to extend Cease and/or Kopech if prices are that reasonable and we can buy out a couple free agent years.

[chw42]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

White initial ZiPS projections.  I think some of these are way too low and it’s clear that ZiPS is not projecting the rebounds / development I’m expecting from Eloy & Vaughn.  That being said, our needs are very clear from the chart below.  We all know the big three (2B, RF, & SP), but we’re definitely going to need a ton of RH relief help (especially if we trade Kimbrel) and a backup catcher.  Regarding the latter, I just don’t think Zavala or Collins are major league backup catchers and we should target a defensive oriented vet towards the end of the offseason.

 

3 WAR for Anderson and Moncada is pretty low considering both had meh years on offense last year and still ended up at 4.5 WAR. 

[Chicago White Sox]

18 minutes ago, chw42 said:

3 WAR for Anderson and Moncada is pretty low considering both had meh years on offense last year and still ended up at 4.5 WAR. 

Fully agree