2022 Offseason Plan Thread

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Yea I agree on all fronts.

Only possibility for extending the friendship bridge to Boras would be simple things like him prioritizing meetings for them with his free agents… or maybe he would sing the Sox praise if the offers were nearly the same… like we saw a couple years back with Wheeler.

If my pessimistic side really take hold of me what I see coming in the next couple of months is the Sox reducing their 40 man roster even more by doing their best to rid themselves of Keuchel and Kimbrel with guys like Lambert, Foster, Burger , Sheets, Romy Gonzalez, Zack Collins, Zavala, Mendick and Mercedes thus reducing the 40 even more looking to give up more players than they get back reducing payroll until things get resolved with the CBA. Jerry has never been know to be player friendly and if he continues this he will surely not care how it hurts the Sox chances to stay competitive just as he didn't care in 1994. Other teams may end up signing guys like Tepera while the Sox do close to nothing.

Supposedly Boras already has a meeting set with the Sox on his free agents according to the last tweet I saw above.

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

34 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I do too. They should have offered him the QO. I don't see any reason to try to get into Boras' good graces however. I'm not sure there is a way to do that. He's all business. At least offer the QO and get the draft pick. The Sox have to be all business too and get a draft pick when they can. It's not like helping Carlos's market by not attaching the draft pick compensation would get them in Boras' good graces.

On the other hand, my pessimistic side is telling me that the Sox were actually being all business and Rodon actually accepting the offer would've meant more guys on the payroll when they are bracing for a strike and probably prefer less players under contract. They just didn't want to take the chance he would accept. Isn't the 40 man roster at somewhere around 33 now when you count their 4 free agents and the guys they outrighted to the minors. I fear that all this was a precursor to how they will do business before and during a work stoppage.

Others here thought he'd accept it  and I would've been fine with that. Rodon pitched like a true ace for peanuts until he ran out of steam which most of us saw coming because of the limited innings he pitched in the previous 2 years.

There's always going to be questions about his health but his last game was encouraging and if he was just fatigued and not truly injured he showed me more than enough to think what he did is sustainable. One year of a true ace for $18.4M isn't much of a gamble financially especially after what he gave the Sox in 2021.

How many teams would rationalize losing a compensatory pick as "giving them some sort of home-field advantage with Boras," especially an organization that has rarely dealt with him until the last decade...and generally doesn't buy top-of-the-market superstar players anyway?

How many times has a player tied to Boras taken a less than market value contract to instead give a team the 'ole "hometown discount"?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

How many teams would rationalize losing a compensatory pick as "giving them some sort of home-field advantage with Boras," especially an organization that has rarely dealt with him until the last decade...and generally doesn't buy top-of-the-market superstar players anyway?

How many times has a player tied to Boras taken a less than market value contract to instead give a team the 'ole "hometown discount"?

Exactly which is why the Sox should've offered Rodon the QO and taken the draft pick when he refused it.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

26 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Exactly which is why the Sox should've offered Rodon the QO and taken the draft pick when he refused it.

Then throw in the Sox potentially losing a pick if they do in fact sign a QO guy such as Conforto. A bad farm with one less pick seems like recipe for drying up the length of the competitive window.

[hi8is]

47 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Exactly which is why the Sox should've offered Rodon the QO and taken the draft pick when he refused it.

I expected them to offer and Rodon to reject it as well… since it unfolded the way it has I’ve been trying to find rationalizations. These are the most likely I think:

1.) They didn’t want him to accept

2.) They could be concerned about his health

3.) They wanted to do Rodon a solid by allowing him to enter free agency without an attached compensation pick

4.) They want to sign a starting pitcher for more than a year

5.) They wanted to scratch the back of Boars 

[Chicago White Sox]

Guys, Boras wasn’t going to come out after the Sox didn’t offer the QO and say “thank god the Sox didn’t offer one or we would have accepted”.  And the best way for him to spin this is by saying the Sox are stupid, that they would have never accepted the QO, and that they want a multi-year deal because Carlos is 100% healthy (?).  It’s totally fine if you want to argue not extending a QO was stupid, but this certainly isn’t proof of anything.

[Chicago White Sox]

@Balta1701 - Let’s see your offseason plan!  Would drive some much needed conversation!

[Dick Allen]

It's easy for Boras to say he wouldn't have taken the QO now. To me it's simple, if he is healthy or can at least convince someone he is healthy, not offering it was dumb, but I don't think it was so cut and dried he wouldn't have taken it, and if he is healthy, he's worth it. If not, you were burned.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Guys, Boras wasn’t going to come out after the Sox didn’t offer the QO and say “thank god the Sox didn’t offer one or we would have accepted”.  And the best way for him to spin this is by saying the Sox are stupid, that they would have never accepted the QO, and that they want a multi-year deal because Carlos is 100% healthy (?).  It’s totally fine if you want to argue not extending a QO was stupid, but this certainly isn’t proof of anything.

This exactly.  Dude is going to paint anything as a win, even if it wasn't.  Its quite literally his job.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Guys, Boras wasn’t going to come out after the Sox didn’t offer the QO and say “thank god the Sox didn’t offer one or we would have accepted”.  And the best way for him to spin this is by saying the Sox are stupid, that they would have never accepted the QO, and that they want a multi-year deal because Carlos is 100% healthy (?).  It’s totally fine if you want to argue not extending a QO was stupid, but this certainly isn’t proof of anything.

I don't think anyone is saying it's proof ,it's just more in line with the side other than yours that the Sox should've extended the QO, Carlos has to prove to other teams he's healthy . It's as simple as that. Some of us think he very well may be healthy enough to have made the offer.  A lot of other teams are making offers to guys who didn't throw 99 in their last game or didn't even have a last game in 2021. Sure those guys have better track records than Los. Big deal. The track record you should be concerned about is 2021 when Los looked like the best pitcher in baseball for 1/2 a season and did not end the year on any kind of injured list.

That's enough of a track record to make the QO. What is this the little league ? Real MLB teams do it.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Then throw in the Sox potentially losing a pick if they do in fact sign a QO guy such as Conforto. A bad farm with one less pick seems like recipe for drying up the length of the competitive window.

Yea I'm at a loss here. Any confirmation that the Sox were at the Verlander showcase. I mean why wouldn't they be?

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yea I'm at a loss here. Any confirmation that the Sox were at the Verlander showcase. I mean why wouldn't they be?

I did not see their names on any posts, but there was only about a half of a dozen teams I saw named.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

It's easy for Boras to say he wouldn't have taken the QO now. To me it's simple, if he is healthy or can at least convince someone he is healthy, not offering it was dumb, but I don't think it was so cut and dried he wouldn't have taken it, and if he is healthy, he's worth it. If not, you were burned.

The Sox also want you as a fan to rationalize that the Sox know more than us about his season ending medicals and they were afraid he would accept the QO knowing that he is unhealthy. There's posturing  going on with both sides. The Sox dug themselves a hole with the Kimbrel salary and they are at 33 on the 40 man roster. Looks to me like a lot of salary concerns .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I did not see their names on any posts, but there was only about a half of a dozen teams I saw named.

This is my thinking from the MLBTR article:

Of course, given the stage of the offseason we’re at, it’s safe to assume that virtually any team with a modicum of 2022 postseason hope and/or any actual money to spent this offseason was at least present to gauge Verlander’s readiness. As Red Sox chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom asked rhetorically when confirming his club’s presence at the showcase (link via Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe? “Age might affect the term you consider, but if the present ability is there, why wouldn’t you be interested?”

If the Sox were there you would think it would get out in the press. That's how big league teams do things to let their fans know they are still interested in winning. So far I haven't seen any signs they are interested in anything .

[Jack Parkman]

In my humble opinion the targets for RF/2B should hit L or S. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I wonder what a Syndergaard contract would look like should he reject the QO.

[zisk]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:57 PM, FoxForce2 said:

Sox = Stroman and/or Matz. And I like this option - for '22-23 anyway.

Is Stroman destined to be the next Jose Quintana?

[bmags]

1 hour ago, zisk said:

Is Stroman destined to be the next Jose Quintana?

they aren't similar pitchers. Stroman has very good stuff.

[Flash]

Just one mans opinion but Sox should do business with the Diamondbacks. As I've commented in previous posts, I'd keep our free agent powder focused on pitching and target Ketel Marte and Daulton Varsho through trade. Varsho can catch and play all 3 OF position well, not to mention tons of power from the left side of the plate. It might be the Sox don't have the trade chits to turn a deal for both but I'd be willing to part with all but all but a limited few if we could somehow pull it off.   

[hi8is]

7 minutes ago, Flash said:

Daulton Varsho

I don’t know much about him other than what you stated and a general glance at his stat line… don’t you think it would be better to find a more established player for a shorter term so that our internal options can take over in another couple years?

[Flash]

12 minutes ago, hi8is said:

I don’t know much about him other than what you stated and a general glance at his stat line… don’t you think it would be better to find a more established player for a shorter term so that our internal options can take over in another couple years?

Varsho is 25 and under control for another 5 yrs. I doubt we will develop better internal options. For me he checks all the boxes, especially with his catching ability but he won't come cheaply. 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, Flash said:

Varsho is 25 and under control for another 5 yrs. I doubt we will develop better internal options. For me he checks all the boxes, especially with his catching ability but he won't come cheaply. 

I’m still just not sure why the Dbacks would trade him given his age / control.  Marte is a much more realistic target for us.  The challenge there is the only piece we have that gets you in the conversation is Vaughn and they already have a few 1B/DH types in Smith and Beer.  Maybe they can be convinced Vaughn can play a passable LF long-term.  Regardless, Marte is the guy we should pursuing if we’re looking for an impact player via trade.

[Flash]

46 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m still just not sure why the Dbacks would trade him given his age / control.  Marte is a much more realistic target for us.  The challenge there is the only piece we have that gets you in the conversation is Vaughn and they already have a few 1B/DH types in Smith and Beer.  Maybe they can be convinced Vaughn can play a passable LF long-term.  Regardless, Marte is the guy we should pursuing if we’re looking for an impact player via trade.

Such a trade would require parting with a significant haul, the likes of which I don't believe we could pull off. D-backs unlikely to assign much value to Eloy and Vaughn is someone we should try to retain (although I would include him if absolutely necessary). Guessing D-backs would want young, controllable players such as Crochet, Kelley, Burger, Collins although those 4 wouldn't be nearly enough. I agree we should pursue Marte but, to me, Varsho is the better fit if I had to choose because of his handedness and defensive versatility. He is an immediate upgrade at catcher (frees up Grandal to DH) and provides a primary option for either corner OF spot and backup to Robert in CF.

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, Flash said:

Such a trade would require parting with a significant haul, the likes of which I don't believe we could pull off. D-backs unlikely to assign much value to Eloy and Vaughn is someone we should try to retain (although I would include him if absolutely necessary). Guessing D-backs would want young, controllable players such as Crochet, Kelley, Burger, Collins although those 4 wouldn't be nearly enough. I agree we should pursue Marte but, to me, Varsho is the better fit if I had to choose because of his handedness and defensive versatility. He is an immediate upgrade at catcher (frees up Grandal to DH) and provides a primary option for either corner OF spot and backup to Robert in CF.

I understand the interest, but those types of trades are my least favorite. I don't like where the cost for control starts to exceed the cost of talent. 

[Flash]

27 minutes ago, bmags said:

I understand the interest, but those types of trades are my least favorite. I don't like where the cost for control starts to exceed the cost of talent. 

When you say 'cost of talent' are you referring to the players we would have to send? Are you suggesting that the aforementioned players have more combined talent than Marte and Varsho or less control?