2022 Offseason Plan Thread

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Flash said:

When you say 'cost of talent' are you referring to the players we would have to send? Are you suggesting that the aforementioned players have more combined talent than Marte and Varsho or less control?

I'm saying the cost of Varsho's control will be more expensive than the impact of his talent. It makes trades like that too expensive for what you get back because you are "paying" for 5 years of cheap control.

I'd rather have a mega package for 2 or so years of a very talented player than 5 years of a good player, especially when the sox have not yet hit spending limits.

[Flash]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'm saying the cost of Varsho's control will be more expensive than the impact of his talent. It makes trades like that too expensive for what you get back because you are "paying" for 5 years of cheap control.

I'd rather have a mega package for 2 or so years of a very talented player than 5 years of a good player, especially when the sox have not yet hit spending limits.

Gotcha. I look at the fact that Varsho is under cheap control as a secondary benefit to his potential roster impact. For me, he would be the perfect addition but as I said earlier, I can't envision a talent package that would get D-backs excited, let alone adding Marte.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, Flash said:

Gotcha. I look at the fact that Varsho is under cheap control as a secondary benefit to his potential roster impact. For me, he would be the perfect addition but as I said earlier, I can't envision a talent package that would get D-backs excited, let alone adding Marte.

While I don’t think Varsho is realistic, I do like the outside the box thinking and feel like Hahn will need to be creative this offseason.

[South Side Hit Men]

Add the Reds to the current list (Miami and A’s) of tanking teams willing to pitch frontline pitching which may interest the White Sox.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I really don’t see how Vaughn survives the offseason with us unless we are going to sacrifice RF defense.  Hahn has continued to stress improving the defense is critical, but that’s going to be tough if your improvements are limited to 2B.  Something has got to give and I think Vaughn is the piece that gets moved because he’ll return the most value and will be attractive to the most teams.

[Y2Jimmy0]

10 hours ago, Flash said:

Just one mans opinion but Sox should do business with the Diamondbacks. As I've commented in previous posts, I'd keep our free agent powder focused on pitching and target Ketel Marte and Daulton Varsho through trade. Varsho can catch and play all 3 OF position well, not to mention tons of power from the left side of the plate. It might be the Sox don't have the trade chits to turn a deal for both but I'd be willing to part with all but all but a limited few if we could somehow pull it off.   

What are the Sox trading for Marte? Why would Arizona trade Varsho? 

[Y2Jimmy0]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I really don’t see how Vaughn survives the offseason with us unless we are going to sacrifice RF defense.  Hahn has continued to stress improving the defense is critical, but that’s going to be tough if your improvements are limited to 2B.  Something has got to give and I think Vaughn is the piece that gets moved because he’ll return the most value and will be attractive to the most teams.

It would be a short-sighted LaRussa led move if it happens. Trading Andrew Vaughn is stupid with an owner that doesn't play at the top of the free agent market. He's a cornerstone player. I would hate it. 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It would be a short-sighted LaRussa led move if it happens. Trading Andrew Vaughn is stupid with an owner that doesn't play at the top of the free agent market. He's a cornerstone player. I would hate it. 

Yep. There’s your DH/LF/very occasional RF. I feel like if that is your plan, you need to be left handed at 2B and RF. Conforto and Escobar. Just spend money please.

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It would be a short-sighted LaRussa led move if it happens. Trading Andrew Vaughn is stupid with an owner that doesn't play at the top of the free agent market. He's a cornerstone player. I would hate it. 

What if you’re getting another cornerstone type player in return, but one who provides more defensive utility?  I guess I struggle to see how we fill all our needs without moving one of our LF/1B/DH types.  Abreu is untradable, Eloy would be selling at his low point, and Sheets won’t get you that much in return.  Just feels like Vaughn is the one guy who you can legit get value and still have a solid DH option.

[Y2Jimmy0]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What if you’re getting another cornerstone type player in return, but one who provides more defensive utility?  I guess I struggle to see how we fill all our needs without moving one of our LF/1B/DH types.  Abreu is untradable, Eloy would be selling at his low point, and Sheets won’t get you that much in return.  Just feels like Vaughn is the one guy who you can legit get value and still have a solid DH option.

Depends on the player. The issue is Jose Abreu though and it always will be. Vaughn should be the 1B for the next decade. 

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Depends on the player. The issue is Jose Abreu though and it always will be. Vaughn should be the 1B for the next decade. 

Fully agree.  I love Jose so much, but having $18M to address other needs and then being able to start Vaughn at 1B, Sheets at DH, and with Grandal & Burger in the mix as needed makes it so much easier to build a compete roster.

[ChiSox59]

48 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I really don’t see how Vaughn survives the offseason with us unless we are going to sacrifice RF defense.  Hahn has continued to stress improving the defense is critical, but that’s going to be tough if your improvements are limited to 2B.  Something has got to give and I think Vaughn is the piece that gets moved because he’ll return the most value and will be attractive to the most teams.

Why can’t Vaughn play LF and Eloy DH? Seems easy enough to me. Sheets is solid and all and I am not saying we get rid of him, but also don’t think we need to hand him the DH job. Trading AV would suck. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by ChiSox59

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Why can’t Vaughn play LF and Eloy DH? Seems easy enough to me. Sheets is solid and all and I am not saying we get rid of him, but also don’t think we need to hand him the DH job. Trading AV would suck. 

Yeah it seems to be the best idea unless they’re too cheap to sign anyone of substance and need to use Vaughn to get cheaper talent.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Yeah it seems to be the best idea unless they’re too cheap to sign anyone of substance and need to use Vaughn to get cheaper talent.

Vaughn is cheap talent. Trading him to make room for Gavin fuckin Sheets is a fireable offense. No one thinks we need more left handed sticks than I do, but just acquire RF and 2B that fill those needs. If you need to trade, don’t trade cornerstone guys. 

I will be so god damn mad I’d they trade AV - he’s going to be special. Gavin is just a guy that had a solid debut. He’s nice to have around and fills a few needs, but let’s not jam a square peg into a round hole here. 

[tray]

Home runs win games and burnish the credentials of players.  Soler put himself on the map again with 48 HR is 2019 and once again with a few key HR in this year's playoffs. Vaughn could have increased his trade value as a DH if he hit more HR.  15 HR over 417 AB did not seem like much, especially after Sheets pounded 11 in just 160 AB.   I think Sheets can possibly put up 30 HR if he is the full time DH next season. Quick bat and great plate coverage on outside pitches.

 

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Home runs win games and burnish the credentials of players.  Soler put himself on the map again with 48 HR is 2019 and once again with a few key HR in this year's playoffs. Vaughn could have increased his trade value as a DH if he hit more HR.  15 HR over 417 AB did not seem like much, especially after Sheets pounded 11 in just 160 AB.   I think Sheets can possibly put up 30 HR if he is the full time DH next season. Quick bat and great plate coverage on outside pitches.

 

I want to believe too

[kleedawg]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Vaughn is cheap talent. Trading him to make room for Gavin fuckin Sheets is a fireable offense. No one thinks we need more left handed sticks than I do, but just acquire RF and 2B that fill those needs. If you need to trade, don’t trade cornerstone guys. 

I will be so god damn mad I’d they trade AV - he’s going to be special. Gavin is just a guy that had a solid debut. He’s nice to have around and fills a few needs, but let’s not jam a square peg into a round hole here. 

1of 3 overused phrases I hate seeing on this board.

1. Its a fire-able offense... no it isn't

2. trade player x for player y, who says no? Probably most people.

3. trade this for that,  prove me wrong. I have better things to do with me life and you can't prove or disprove hypotheticals that won't happen, just express my opinion.

That being said, I don't think we should be trading Vaughn.

[kleedawg]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Home runs win games and burnish the credentials of players.  Soler put himself on the map again with 48 HR is 2019 and once again with a few key HR in this year's playoffs. Vaughn could have increased his trade value as a DH if he hit more HR.  15 HR over 417 AB did not seem like much, especially after Sheets pounded 11 in just 160 AB.   I think Sheets can possibly put up 30 HR if he is the full time DH next season. Quick bat and great plate coverage on outside pitches.

 

lots of things win games. The Royals won a ws with speed and defense.

Vaughn and sheets were both rookies. Vaughn will likely hit more homeruns. I like both players. I would not say Sheets is the better prospect.

[Flash]

2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

What are the Sox trading for Marte? Why would Arizona trade Varsho? 

I could see a combo platter of Sox assets led by Crochet being of interest to D-backs in exchange for Marte although my guess is if put to bid, we would come up short. Its highly unlikely they would trade Varsho unless overwhelmed by value. I mention him only because I am trying to 'talk it into happening.' I would also posit another potential trade target that, while less a fit but much more doable is Ian Happ (SH, versatile defender, 25 HRs in '21).

[tray]

5 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

Vaughn and sheets were both rookies. Vaughn will likely hit more homeruns. I like both players. I would not say Sheets is the better prospect.

I am projecting the number of home runs Sheets might hit primarily  based on 2021 stats and also my own take on his swing and plate coverage.  Jim Thome has to be given some credit for Sheets adjustments to major league pitching and his ability to hit home runs in clutch situations. I see some of Thome's style  in Sheets swing and in his approach.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Vaughn is cheap talent. Trading him to make room for Gavin fuckin Sheets is a fireable offense. No one thinks we need more left handed sticks than I do, but just acquire RF and 2B that fill those needs. If you need to trade, don’t trade cornerstone guys. 

I will be so god damn mad I’d they trade AV - he’s going to be special. Gavin is just a guy that had a solid debut. He’s nice to have around and fills a few needs, but let’s not jam a square peg into a round hole here. 

It’s not trading Vaughn to make room for Gavin.  It’s trading Vaughn to add a cornerstone guy at a greater position of need.  I get it’s easy to say “just go spend money” to fill all our holes, but that’s not remotely realistic with Jerry as owner.  We desperately need another high-end pitcher and a left-handed bat of some sorts at minimum plus multiple bullpen arms.  Once we run out of money, it’s going to be near impossible for us to continuing adding without subtracting from the major league roster.  Again, I just don’t see how we address all our needs without tapping into our LF/1B/DH glut.  Hopefully I’m wrong and Hahn finds a way to make it all work.

[SCCWS]

4 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It would be a short-sighted LaRussa led move if it happens. Trading Andrew Vaughn is stupid with an owner that doesn't play at the top of the free agent market. He's a cornerstone player. I would hate it. 

He is major league ready to be on a roster offensively but unfortunately he really is not defensively. Now if he is destined to be a career DH that works. Otherwise he needs to play a regular position, good or bad , until he improves . Maybe that is LF or IB. But I don't think he is a cornerstone player if he is only a DH. More like another piece

Edited November 12, 2021 by SCCWS

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yep. There’s your DH/LF/very occasional RF. I feel like if that is your plan, you need to be left handed at 2B and RF. Conforto and Escobar. Just spend money please.

I don't think the Sox are going to spend very much. I really think we see trades. I also think they will keep a close eye on Rodon.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Call me crazy, but I don’t think we need as much offensive upgrades as people are saying. A full season of Robert, Eloy and Yaz will have a gigantic impact. Sheets and Vaughn should only get better and there’s a decent shot Burger can be a useful utility guy.  Something like Eddie Rosario and Eduardo Escobar would be more than enough to make me happy with the offense of this team. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, fathom said:

Yeah it seems to be the best idea unless they’re too cheap to sign anyone of substance and need to use Vaughn to get cheaper talent.

We could obviously go round and round with these discussions involving, Vaughn, Sheets, Eloy and Burger. They all are potentially very good hitters who are lacking defensively. How much of the future do the Sox sacrifice for the present because of payroll ? Vaughn lost AB's to Sheets because of his struggles with RHP. How often can they play Vaughn unless he improves significantly against RHP when you have a bat like Sheets. Gavin's stats hitting against RHP are almost as good as Vaughn's against LHP in just about the same amount of AB's. Vaughn is 2 years younger than Gavin but in order to make the playoffs again how do you play Vaughn more than Gavin against RHP when Vaughn had a .618 OPS and Sheets .900 ?

How do you play Vaughn more than Eloy in the LF ? It seemed pretty obvious that the Sox will play Eloy in left despite his injury history there. We can debate all day who is better defensively in LF and not come to any definitive conclusion.