2022 Offseason Plan Thread

[Chisoxfn]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

This might be the most depressing thing I've read the entire off season, and there's frankly a LOT to choose from.

But ESPECIALLY if it were to preclude addressing 2B and/or RF...his lingering presence on the payroll.

They should be able to at a minimum upgrade one of those spots and keep Kimbrel (not what I am advocating from - but if somehow they couldn't move him and hold tight, I'm just saying, it isn't the end of the world).  Want depressing - look at the Sox from 2010-2017, now that was depressing.  

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

They should be able to at a minimum upgrade one of those spots and keep Kimbrel (not what I am advocating from - but if somehow they couldn't move him and hold tight, I'm just saying, it isn't the end of the world).  Want depressing - look at the Sox from 2010-2017, now that was depressing.  

Don’t you dare talk smack about Brent Lillibridge!

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Patience. I really think he’s signing a 1 year deal. Look at all the guys in his mold who have bet on themselves and then got paid almost 10m more in AAV with more years.

Put yourself in the shoes of Conforto… he’s on a down year after being great for 5 of the previous 6 seasons. He’s 28 about to be 29.

Put yourself in the shoes of his agent. We all know he always wants to maximize his clients.

Take 5/100 now and become a free agent again at 34 years old…

Or take a pillow deal… hit the market again at 29 years old and potentially sign for 7/165.

185 > 100.

If Conforto is looking for a pillow deal the Sox are a bit fiddly fucked. 

[wegner]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

Don’t you dare talk smack about Brent Lillibridge!

I still remember that series he had in Yankee Stadium.....pure bliss.

[maloney.adam]

23 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Patience. I really think he’s signing a 1 year deal. Look at all the guys in his mold who have bet on themselves and then got paid almost 10m more in AAV with more years.

Put yourself in the shoes of Conforto… he’s on a down year after being great for 5 of the previous 6 seasons. He’s 28 about to be 29.

Put yourself in the shoes of his agent. We all know he always wants to maximize his clients.

Take 5/100 now and become a free agent again at 34 years old…

Or take a pillow deal… hit the market again at 29 years old and potentially sign for 7/165.

185 > 100.

Not in this market. He’s looking for a multi-year deal now and with Boras as his agent I don’t see him taking anything less. Boras is playing games here hence why Conforto is in no rush to make a decision in 24 hours. If they really want him, than they should do whatever it takes to get him but I don’t think they should lose sleep over it if another deal comes along that works better for them. It takes two sides to tango.

Edited November 30, 2021 by maloney.adam

[Chisoxfn]

Schwarber still intrigues me. Suck defense but I think his best offensive years are still ahead of him.  As a bat - way better than Conforto in my opinion.  It is too bad Eloy is so damn limited in the field, but shoot - would be kind of crazy fun seeing Schwarber and Eloy with Robert just covering insane ground. His peak might not be much different than Schwarber (to be honest)...just from the right side.  That said - Eloy has that potential to have multiple 1000 OPS type seasons and might even have some 50HR years in his future.  

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

They should be able to at a minimum upgrade one of those spots and keep Kimbrel (not what I am advocating from - but if somehow they couldn't move him and hold tight, I'm just saying, it isn't the end of the world).  Want depressing - look at the Sox from 2010-2017, now that was depressing.  

2010 and 2012 seasons (until final two weeks) were entertaining.

2014, you had Abreu added to the team and a breakout ROY/MVPish season.

2016 was nice for 33 games....and there's also the building excitement over those subsequent 3-4 years of rebuilding...to something much better than "mired in mediocrity."

Now you have kind of a sense of waiting for what's next, and the organization's progress being at something of a crossroads, especially with a manager of LaRussa's age and owner at Reinsdorf's.  If you're standing still this week, you're falling behind.   Fortunately, most of the real contenders in the AL still have mostly been sitting it out on the sidelines, but we still have some time remaining before everything gets frozen in place.

[Chisoxfn]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

2010 and 2012 seasons (until final two weeks) were entertaining.

2014, you had Abreu added to the team and a breakout ROY/MVPish season.

2016 was nice for 33 games....and there's also the building excitement over those subsequent 3-4 years of rebuilding...to something much better than "mired in mediocrity."

Now you have kind of a sense of waiting for what's next, and the organization's progress being at something of a crossroads, especially with a manager of LaRussa's age and owner at Reinsdorf's.  If you're standing still this week, you're falling behind.   Fortunately, most of the real contenders in the AL still have mostly been sitting it out on the sidelines, but we still have some time remaining before everything gets frozen in place.

No - I might not love the offseason so far, but the winner of the offseason doesn't always correlate to the season and we still have months to go. And - this is still a 90+ win team that lost a lot of its top talent due to injury last year with more players than not having arrows still pointing up (vs. down), including a number who are widely considered elite talents in this league. The major loss they have is Rodon - which is huge - but they still have good starting pitching and a deep pen and reasons to be optimistic with some of their young pitchers (Cease - another step forward? Gio - is this the year he fully breaks out?  Kopech/Crochet - do they each take steps forward?).  And quite frankly Keuchel has some reason to be optimistic for some reversion back to being a quality starter - not the guy who was stellar in the COVID shortened 2020 but certainly better than the guy who was  dumpster fire the 2nd half of the year as he struggled through some back issues + having an inability to deal without being able to put anything on the ball.  

Robert / Eloy / Vaughn / Moncada / Timmy / Grandal / Abreu - That is a lot of reasons to be happy.  7 players who are either already real good or have all the potential to take steps forward to that and more.  Abreu / Grandal being the only 2 who I would say are on the downside(s) of their career - but both of which are still clearly very good players, especially at their respective positions.  And Grandal technically put up the best WAR of his career in '21. (and in just 90 games).  

Oh and the rest of the teams in the division - they would all be envious of the list of players I just outlined.  

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Schwarber still intrigues me. Suck defense but I think his best offensive years are still ahead of him.  As a bat - way better than Conforto in my opinion.  It is too bad Eloy is so damn limited in the field, but shoot - would be kind of crazy fun seeing Schwarber and Eloy with Robert just covering insane ground. His peak might not be much different than Schwarber (to be honest)...just from the right side.  That said - Eloy has that potential to have multiple 1000 OPS type seasons and might even have some 50HR years in his future.  

Why do you think Schwarber is a way better bat than Conforto?  Michael has a career 124 wRC+ while Kyle is at 118.  You ripped Conforto’s batting average, but ignore Schwarber’s?  And prior to this year Conforto had a career wRC+ 128 to Kyle’s 112.  Schwarber has never had a season like he did in 2021 and you’d be paying him off a career year.  On top of that, Kyle hasn’t been able to hit LHP prior to this year and had a wRC+ of 75.  Conforto had a 97 wRC+ against LHP leading up to season, making him more than a pure platoon guy.  I think people greatly overrate Schwarber because of “The Babe” image and are ignoring the fact Conforto has a much better track record prior to 2021 and can actually play a solid RF.

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why do you think Schwarber is a way better bat than Conforto?  Michael has a career 124 wRC+ while Kyle is at 118.  You ripped Conforto’s batting average, but ignore Schwarber’s?  And prior to this year Conforto had a career wRC+ 128 to Kyle’s 112.  Schwarber has never had a season like he did in 2021 and you’d be paying him off a career year.  On top of that, Kyle hasn’t been able to hit LHP prior to this year and had a wRC+ of 75.  Conforto had a 97 wRC+ against LHP leading up to season, making him more than a pure platoon guy.  I think people greatly overrate Schwarber because of “The Babe” image and are ignoring the fact Conforto has a much better track record prior to 2021 and can actually play a solid RF.

The idea is that Schwarber finally tapped his potential and the results of last season demonstrate signs of what is to come.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, hi8is said:

The idea is that Schwarber finally tapped his potential and the results of last season demonstrate signs of what is to come.

He may have, but people rip Conforto for a lack of consistency, poor batting average, poor platoon splits, and shitty defense and I’m sitting thinking that is Schwarber to a T.  Again, I think people are greatly overreacting to one single year.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why do you think Schwarber is a way better bat than Conforto?  Michael has a career 124 wRC+ while Kyle is at 118.  You ripped Conforto’s batting average, but ignore Schwarber’s?  And prior to this year Conforto had a career wRC+ 128 to Kyle’s 112.  Schwarber has never had a season like he did in 2021 and you’d be paying him off a career year.  On top of that, Kyle hasn’t been able to hit LHP prior to this year and had a wRC+ of 75.  Conforto had a 97 wRC+ against LHP leading up to season, making him more than a pure platoon guy.  I think people greatly overrate Schwarber because of “The Babe” image and are ignoring the fact Conforto has a much better track record prior to 2021 and can actually play a solid RF.

I agree with everything you said, but Schwarber has a huge advantage in ISO and SLG when compared to Conforto. If you are looking for a lefty masher, Schwarber is the historical better bet. But for obvious reasons, Conforto is the better fit on this team due to his position.

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He may have, but people rip Conforto for a lack of consistency, poor batting average, poor platoon splits, and shitty defense and I’m sitting thinking that is Schwarber to a T.  Again, I think people are greatly overreacting to one single year.

Well - directly comparing them further - Schwarber has more home runs in 92 less games played over their careers.

They both have cases which can be made.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I agree with everything you said, but Schwarber has a huge advantage in ISO and SLG when compared to Conforto. If you are looking for a lefty masher, Schwarber is the historical better bet. But for obvious reasons, Conforto is the better fit on this team due to his position.

I’m not against Schwarber and the power would be nice, but Conforto is such a perfect fit for what this team needs.  Signing Kyle requires you to go with shitty OF defense or trade Vaughn / Sheets for a legit RF.

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

No - I might not love the offseason so far, but the winner of the offseason doesn't always correlate to the season and we still have months to go. And - this is still a 90+ win team that lost a lot of its top talent due to injury last year with more players than not having arrows still pointing up (vs. down), including a number who are widely considered elite talents in this league. The major loss they have is Rodon - which is huge - but they still have good starting pitching and a deep pen and reasons to be optimistic with some of their young pitchers (Cease - another step forward? Gio - is this the year he fully breaks out?  Kopech/Crochet - do they each take steps forward?).  And quite frankly Keuchel has some reason to be optimistic for some reversion back to being a quality starter - not the guy who was stellar in the COVID shortened 2020 but certainly better than the guy who was  dumpster fire the 2nd half of the year as he struggled through some back issues + having an inability to deal without being able to put anything on the ball.  

Robert / Eloy / Vaughn / Moncada / Timmy / Grandal / Abreu - That is a lot of reasons to be happy.  7 players who are either already real good or have all the potential to take steps forward to that and more.  Abreu / Grandal being the only 2 who I would say are on the downside(s) of their career - but both of which are still clearly very good players, especially at their respective positions.  And Grandal technically put up the best WAR of his career in '21. (and in just 90 games).  

Oh and the rest of the teams in the division - they would all be envious of the list of players I just outlined.  

It has been pretty rare for young hitters to come up and dominate since Covid...but if Torkelson and Greene are as good as advertised and Correa signs (and stays healthy), they can put a scare into the White Sox.

A lot depends on the continued progress of Manning and Casey Mize.

That's quite a bit to go right, and they're still relying on a number of complementary pieces like Candelario, Baddoo and whoever they have catching, but you just never know.

They're the kind of team who could pick up the same sort of big bopper OF/DH guys like a Hunter Renfroe/F.Reyes and all the guys the Braves brought in for the second half and suddenly have a pretty decent defense.

Just depends on Correa liking Detroit and Hinch enough...AND $$$$$.

The son has never opened the financial spigots like the father.

[Chisoxfn]

15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not against Schwarber and the power would be nice, but Conforto is such a perfect fit for what this team needs.  Signing Kyle requires you to go with shitty OF defense or trade Vaughn / Sheets for a legit RF.

If Conforto wants to sign for $100M or less - than sure. I am thinking Schwarber goes for less years and money but I am probably wrong on that front.  Conforto isn't bad - I just think he's the type of guy you roll your eyes at if they really need to go 6 years.  But you know what - it isn't my money - and I will say this - if they got Segura and Conforto - that is a really deep lineup top to bottom. Defensively it might be meh - but that lineup will be able to hit with anyone in baseball. And you can replace Segura with countless other 2B options.

The lineup would also have some depth with people like Sheets, Burger, Romy, and potentially Leury (if they bring him back).  I will assume at this point the Sox get Segura and a back-up catcher they like for Kimbrel.  

Note: I like Schwarber's ascension and think he has made the adjustments needed to fully unlock what I think is a pretty special bat. But yes - Conforto is the better fit for the Sox roster and probably why he will ultimately be who they sign.  

[ron883]

24 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

If Conforto wants to sign for $100M or less - than sure. I am thinking Schwarber goes for less years and money but I am probably wrong on that front.  Conforto isn't bad - I just think he's the type of guy you roll your eyes at if they really need to go 6 years.  But you know what - it isn't my money - and I will say this - if they got Segura and Conforto - that is a really deep lineup top to bottom. Defensively it might be meh - but that lineup will be able to hit with anyone in baseball. And you can replace Segura with countless other 2B options.

The lineup would also have some depth with people like Sheets, Burger, Romy, and potentially Leury (if they bring him back).  I will assume at this point the Sox get Segura and a back-up catcher they like for Kimbrel.  

Note: I like Schwarber's ascension and think he has made the adjustments needed to fully unlock what I think is a pretty special bat. But yes - Conforto is the better fit for the Sox roster and probably why he will ultimately be who they sign.  

Can you create Cubstalk.com for those of us that are disgusted with this team (because of this offseason and their typical failure to spend on the team) and will be rooting for the Northside next year? Thank you. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by ron883

[hi8is]

12 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Can you create Cubstalk.com for those of us that are disgusted with this team (because of this offseason and their typical failure to spend on the team) and will be rooting for the Northside next year? Thank you. 

Have at it:

https://instantdomainsearch.com/?q=cubstalk

[FoxForce2]

53 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

If Conforto wants to sign for $100M or less - than sure. I am thinking Schwarber goes for less years and money but I am probably wrong on that front.  Conforto isn't bad - I just think he's the type of guy you roll your eyes at if they really need to go 6 years.  But you know what - it isn't my money - and I will say this - if they got Segura and Conforto - that is a really deep lineup top to bottom. Defensively it might be meh - but that lineup will be able to hit with anyone in baseball. And you can replace Segura with countless other 2B options.

The lineup would also have some depth with people like Sheets, Burger, Romy, and potentially Leury (if they bring him back).  I will assume at this point the Sox get Segura and a back-up catcher they like for Kimbrel.  

Note: I like Schwarber's ascension and think he has made the adjustments needed to fully unlock what I think is a pretty special bat. But yes - Conforto is the better fit for the Sox roster and probably why he will ultimately be who they sign.  

Too sensible - which is why it probably won't happen.

[hi8is]

17 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Too sensible - which is why it probably won't happen.

It’s always been too sensible that they’re likely to sign a right fielder like Conforto, trade for a starting pitcher or resign Rodon, and trade Kimbrel for a second baseman or sign a lower tier option.

That is what has always been most sensible and it’s still what is most likely to happen.

Conforto + Gausmann was the pie in the sky option IMO. All of this other nonsense has been just that.

Scherzer and Semien… sure. ?

[ShoeLessRob]

“Our Biggest free agent signing was actually extending Lance Lynn during the season, which tied up a lot of resources. we were in on every free agent, but didn’t want the market to dictate our actions”. - RIck Hahn in the near future 

[hi8is]

18 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

“Our Biggest free agent signing was actually extending Lance Lynn during the season, which tied up a lot of resources. we were in on every free agent, but didn’t want the market to dictate our actions”. - RIck Hahn in the near future 

Nope.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, ron883 said:

Can you create Cubstalk.com for those of us that are disgusted with this team (because of this offseason and their typical failure to spend on the team) and will be rooting for the Northside next year? Thank you. 

Why would you want to cheer for one of the worst teams in baseball the next 3-4 seasons?  To further punish yourself for being a White Sox fan, and basically enduring ten lost years on baseball....to another lost half decade of the Cubs?

Not the most logical bandwagon switch.

Maybe try USC football, or something.  LSU, if you're a Kelly fan.

[joejoesox]

Imo Kris Bryant makes too much sense for the Sox, he's just an upgraded version of Leury Garcia and would fit perfectly due to his versatility

[joejoesox]

https://stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?player_id2=bryankr01&type=b&player_id1=confomi01&sum=0&request=1