2022 Offseason Plan Thread

[SCCWS]

26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I am not sure the "Front Office" has any say in that matter.

Balta: You could be right but many FO call the shots for the manager not the other way around.  In fact many FO choose the coaching staff for the manager and give him one spot of his choice

Edited November 14, 2021 by SCCWS

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Saying a player was bad is not hate. It's perceived as hate when so many fall in love with a player before he ever accomplished anything except being a great college hitter. Is he slow and gets bad jumps. Sure he catches most everything he gets to but that doesn't make him a good outfielder. That's where everyone who thinks he passes the eye test screws up and he gets bad jumps so it never looks like his routes are bad . His future is not in the OF.

I want him to reach his potential and be the special bat that so many think he is but how do you give him enough playing time for him to do that when the Sox probably will be looking for more LHH and Sheets hits RHP way better than Vaughn. Winning games is the priority . I don't know what your definition of holding your own is but on a team gunning for a Championship the Sox need more than what he produced last year and better defense. He had 1 very good month offensively after he was abysmal for the 1st 2.5 months then finished just as bad as he started. So he was bad 75% of the time and got tired at the end when everyone was upset he wasn't getting enough playing time ?

You must have really hated Robin Ventura. Similar college profile.  Started off really slow, but became really good his second year. This guy was going to have growing pains. You'll see.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

Balta: You could be right but many FO call the shots for the manager not the other way around.  In fact many FO choose the coaching staff for the manager and give him one spot of his choice

I don’t believe at all that if Jose Abreu wanted in the lineup at 1b 155 games this year and Rick Hahn disagreed that anything would happen other than Abreu at 1b everyday, with his manager’s strong support.

[ron883]

46 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Kind of like the time in the last 24 hours when you acted offended when I wrote Kike (undoubtedly resulting in another timely board infractions report) because you didn't realize it was referring to Hernandez on the Red Sox...or perhaps simply there was nothing about Jose Abreu to respond to?

At least you got two likes emojis out of that exchange, so congrats?

For somebody that loves correcting posters anytime they misspell a player's name, it is shameful you didn't type it correctly. "Kiké"

[Flash]

Sox lack realistic, high-value trade assets (Vaughn, Crochet, Jimenez, ?). Could use 2B, LH corner bat, rotation help. Reds make for an interesting one-stop trade partner...Castillo, Winker and Moustakas (w/2 more years of expensive contract). Sox take on Moustakas' deal plus Jimenez, Crochet and a couple minor league assets and solve for LH corner bat (Winker), elite rotation help (Castillo) and, if Moose still has anything left, LH hitting 2B. Of course payroll would increase $25M plus but who's counting?    
  

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I need more on the bench than that. Romy taking over 2nd with no utility player/no backup option - I hope I've made it clear that I have a problem with that. You at least have to give me a utility guy or two in that format. Add in that, and I can't really be that angry.

This hypothetical would include a Cesar Hernandez type at 2B (think $4M to $5M), but with Romy as the backup infielder.

[hi8is]

2 hours ago, ron883 said:

For somebody that loves correcting posters anytime they misspell a player's name, it is shameful you didn't type it correctly. "Kiké"

You forgot to correctly punctuate your sentence.

[southsider2k5]

20 hours ago, tray said:

How about actually reading the post which, quite to  to the contrary of your assertions, states that decisions should not be based on who likes or dislikes a player, but rather on objective measures (including those I listed).

Vaughn has been hyped more than any prospect since Brian Anderson. This happens often with prospects like Mickey Moniak with the Phillies and Lux with the Dodgers. Sometimes prospects live up to the hype, other times they don't.  So Vaughn is what he is, and that is not necessarily what some, including Steve Stone, want him to be.

My opinion is that Abreu beats him out at 1B, Eloy beats him out in LF, and Sheets beats him out as DH. None of those decisions should have to do with whether one likes or dislike players.

I admit that I have posted too frequently  challenging contrary opinions about Vaughn, but it seemed to me that too many fans bought into into Steve Stone's hype about that guy. Maybe check back in a year or two here and  let me know if Vaughn has hit more home runs than Eloy or has won a couple of gold gloves for his defense.

 

 

This is so wrong, it is hilarious.  The amount of hype around the guys on this team like Carlos Rodon, Yoan Moncada, and Luis Robert to start with, blow away anything Andrew Vaughn has seen.  Hell the Sox created a freaking T-shit with most of those guys on it before they even hit the majors.  Vaughn has actually become extremely underrated and understated precisely because of the hype around the rest of the better known guys.

[southsider2k5]

17 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

You must have really hated Robin Ventura. Similar college profile.  Started off really slow, but became really good his second year. This guy was going to have growing pains. You'll see.

All with essentially zero minor league time.

[FoxForce2]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

All with essentially zero minor league time.

 Not even 'essentially'. The time he did at Schaumberg doesn't count as day-in day-out play in competition: on the road, differing ballparks, differing pitchers etc. He went from College to an extended training camp and then into major league ball and at a new position to boot. One giant step for anyone.

[kleedawg]

17 hours ago, Flash said:

Sox lack realistic, high-value trade assets (Vaughn, Crochet, Jimenez, ?). Could use 2B, LH corner bat, rotation help. Reds make for an interesting one-stop trade partner...Castillo, Winker and Moustakas (w/2 more years of expensive contract). Sox take on Moustakas' deal plus Jimenez, Crochet and a couple minor league assets and solve for LH corner bat (Winker), elite rotation help (Castillo) and, if Moose still has anything left, LH hitting 2B. Of course payroll would increase $25M plus but who's counting?    
  

Moose is shift reliant as he has little range at 2b, castillo would be nice. Winker hits a quality lh bat, but he is bad defensively...another DH type. In fact, CBS sportsline had a recent article stating he should be a DH, skewered his defense.

[bmags]

Sorry for derailing but I'm still laughing at forgetting I signed schwarber but I am still pleased that I got 195 million to this:

Anderson R

Lowe L

Robert R

Grandal S

Abreu R

Schwarber L

Eloy R

Conforto L

Moncada S

Very pleased with the balance AND would put TWO .375 OBP guys AHEAD of Anderson. With Schwarber and Eloy you have extreme power to help clear the bases of Abreu/Grandal's slowness.

I'm fairly certain I recreated the 27 yankees.

However, yeah, yeah "the rays aren't trading lowe" ok sure and "you forgot several important players even existed" okay Pal. And sure, there is no minors system to speak of. 

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Sorry for derailing but I'm still laughing at forgetting I signed schwarber but I am still pleased that I got 195 million to this:

Anderson R

Lowe L

Robert R

Grandal S

Abreu R

Schwarber L

Eloy R

Conforto L

Moncada S

Very pleased with the balance AND would put TWO .375 OBP guys AHEAD of Anderson. With Schwarber and Eloy you have extreme power to help clear the bases of Abreu/Grandal's slowness.

I'm fairly certain I recreated the 27 yankees.

However, yeah, yeah "the rays aren't trading lowe" ok sure and "you forgot several important players even existed" okay Pal. And sure, there is no minors system to speak of. 

 

I'd be furious is Gradal is batting any higher than #8 in that lineup.  Note: I am a grandal fan lol

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

 Not even 'essentially'. The time he did at Schaumberg doesn't count as day-in day-out play in competition: on the road, differing ballparks, differing pitchers etc. He went from College to an extended training camp and then into major league ball and at a new position to boot. One giant step for anyone.

He got 60 MiLB games in 2019.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I'd be furious is Gradal is batting any higher than #8 in that lineup.  Note: I am a grandal fan lol

OBP of that team, so fun

.340

.340

.380

.420

.350

.374

.303

.345

.374

Good pop on bench of Romy, Sheets, Engel.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

You must have really hated Robin Ventura. Similar college profile.  Started off really slow, but became really good his second year. This guy was going to have growing pains. You'll see.

My whole point was the Sox don't have time to screw around with Vaughn's growing pains when there are currently stronger options. It's not about thinking how great he will be it's about how good is he now when it comes to winning games. I want to keep him but right now I have no idea if Jerry is going to keep opening up the wallet unless the Sox rid themselves of Kimbrel and Keuchel or even Grandal as shocking as that might sound.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

My whole point was the Sox don't have time to screw around with Vaughn's growing pains when there are currently stronger options. It's not about thinking how great he will be it's about how good is he now when it comes to winning games. I want to keep him but right now I have no idea if Jerry is going to keep opening up the wallet unless the Sox rid themselves of Kimbrel and Keuchel or even Grandal as shocking as that might sound.

They better have time. Unless you like short windows.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is so wrong, it is hilarious.  The amount of hype around the guys on this team like Carlos Rodon, Yoan Moncada, and Luis Robert to start with, blow away anything Andrew Vaughn has seen.  Hell the Sox created a freaking T-shit with most of those guys on it before they even hit the majors.  Vaughn has actually become extremely underrated and understated precisely because of the hype around the rest of the better known guys.

It's not wrong. You picked out one little thing he said about the hype and ignored his other points  that are right. He won't play more than Eloy in left. He won't play more than Abreu at first and if he continues to hit RHP badly he's the weak side of a platoon at DH. Can you dispute that ? There is a lot of hype here on Soxtalk especially last year. It's gotten to be a little less now that more people are more aware how bad his defense is and his late year slump combined with how he hit in RBI situations made people a little more critical of him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They better have time. Unless you like short windows.

I try to stay optimistic on the window because I am not always right . However I have never seen it lasting as long as Hahn's "decade of dominance" and multiple championships" BS he throws out there. Sox are gonna Sox this up. Covid, bad trades, work stoppage , front office , owner or w/e other natural disasters happen.

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's not wrong. You picked out one little thing he said about the hype and ignored his other points  that are right. He won't play more than Eloy in left. He won't play more than Abreu at first and if he continues to hit RHP badly he's the weak side of a platoon at DH. Can you dispute that ? There is a lot of hype here on Soxtalk especially last year. It's gotten to be a little less now that more people are more aware how bad his defense is and his late year slump combined with how he hit in RBI situations made people a little more critical of him.

It is 100% wrong.  Andrew Vaughn is NOT the most hyped prospect since Brian Anderson. That is ridiculous.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is 100% wrong.  Andrew Vaughn is NOT the most hyped prospect since Brian Anderson. That is ridiculous.

Still focused on the hype. You bolded that part of his post and I mentioned his other points and you continue to ignore them lol. You are a piece of work.

[Dick Allen]

30 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I try to stay optimistic on the window because I am not always right . However I have never seen it lasting as long as Hahn's "decade of dominance" and multiple championships" BS he throws out there. Sox are gonna Sox this up. Covid, bad trades, work stoppage , front office , owner or w/e other natural disasters happen.

Soxing it up would be getting rid of all the guys you sucked for years to get, so you can get more expensive guys who will suck eventually. They messed up with Madrigal, now will have to spend a ton to make it up. I;d be fine with an Engel/Sheets/Vaughn split in RF for now. Abreu won't be around forever. It's a crapshoot whether Engel can stay healthy, but with the lack of contact and hopefully a 100% healthy Robert in CF, you don't need + defense in RF, especially when you can always go to Engel with the lead. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Soxing it up would be getting rid of all the guys you sucked for years to get, so you can get more expensive guys who will suck eventually. They messed up with Madrigal, now will have to spend a ton to make it up. I;d be fine with an Engel/Sheets/Vaughn split in RF for now. Abreu won't be around forever. It's a crapshoot whether Engel can stay healthy, but with the lack of contact and hopefully a 100% healthy Robert in CF, you don't need + defense in RF, especially when you can always go to Engel with the lead. 

My opinion of Soxing it up is much more broad. More like Murphy's Law  with Murphy in charge.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Still focused on the hype. You bolded that part of his post and I mentioned his other points and you continue to ignore them lol. You are a piece of work.

Yes, I pointed out the falsehood.  Have you been on a message board before?

The rest of it also ignores the other part I pointed out in a different post WHICH YOU IGNORED in that this is a kid who essentially skipped the minor leagues and STILL managed to hold his own in the majors, despite having never played anything longer than a college baseball season + a bit of MiLB in his life, and not being conditioned for a 162 games yet.

He has a TON of upside as a hitter, and that hasn't changed, despite the effort to focus on a couple of small negatives over his first season in MLB.  I also think he may well play LF more than Eloy simply because Eloy is very regularly hurt from his incompetence in LF.  Its also worth noting that if we want to focus just on the small and bad things, Eloy wasn't exactly a superstar hitter last year with his big ol .740 OPS and OPS+ of 100.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

21 hours ago, ron883 said:

For somebody that loves correcting posters anytime they misspell a player's name, it is shameful you didn't type it correctly. "Kiké"

In case I ever have the desire to type Hernandez' 1st name without you turning it into a Jewish joke how do u get the little thingy over the e ?