2022 Offseason Plan Thread

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

In case I ever have the desire to type Hernandez' 1st name without you turning it into a Jewish joke how do u get the little thingy over the e ?

Just call him Enrique lol

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

23 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yes, I pointed out the falsehood.  Have you been on a message board before?

The rest of it also ignores the other part I pointed out in a different post WHICH YOU IGNORED in that this is a kid who essentially skipped the minor leagues and STILL managed to hold his own in the majors, despite having never played anything longer than a college baseball season + a bit of MiLB in his life, and not being conditioned for a 162 games yet.

He has a TON of upside as a hitter, and that hasn't changed, despite the effort to focus on a couple of small negatives over his first season in MLB.  I also think he may well play LF more than Eloy simply because Eloy is very regularly hurt from his incompetence in LF.  Its also worth noting that if we want to focus just on the small and bad things, Eloy wasn't exactly a superstar hitter last year with his big ol .740 OPS and OPS+ of 100.

Yes I have been on a message board with you and I know how you argue. I stick to the relevant parts of a post unlike you. Your argument about his being a rookie had nothing to do with the poster's and mines points about how much playing time he will get next year when he is behind Eloy in LF , Abreu at 1st and is the weak side of a platoon at DH , Of course I ignored your meaningless point about his backstory  . I know the story but it wasn't germain to the discussion about where Vaughn fits in now. He's going to be great. I get it. I also got it last year .Repeating it won't make his performance any better or help the Sox win. Only getting better with consistent plate appearance will help the Sox win.

The majority of people didn't think Eloy should ever play LF again when he was injured and were afraid he might hurt Robert. I was one of very few who looked at the situation objectively and said there was no way the Sox weren't going to play Eloy in LF when he returned.

Yes ton's of upside, who here doesn't get that ? You don't win banking on upside . The upside has to be realized or you take a seat when there is a lot of talent performing better vying for that playing time.

Edited November 15, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ron883]

33 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

In case I ever have the desire to type Hernandez' 1st name without you turning it into a Jewish joke how do u get the little thingy over the e ?

If on mobile, hold the "e" key and it'll bring up the option. If on a computer, easiest way IMO is to just Google his name and copy and paste the "é". 

I didn't turn it into a Jewish joke. @caulfield12 is the one that typed it. Why am I getting the blame? Smh

Edited November 15, 2021 by ron883

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

29 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Just call him Enrique lol

He goes by Kike right? I must've missed some argument somewhere loll

Edited November 15, 2021 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[southsider2k5]

16 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yes I have been on a message board with you and I know how you argue. I stick to the relevant parts of a post unlike you. Your argument about his being a rookie had nothing to do with the poster's and mines points about how much playing time he will get next year when he is behind Eloy in LF , Abreu and 1st and is the weak side of a platoon at DH , Of course I ignored your meaningless point about his backstory  . I know the story but it wasn't germain to the discussion about where Vaughn fits in now. He's going to be great. I get it. I also got it last year .Repeating it won't make his performance any better or help the Sox win. Only getting better with consistent plate appearance will help the Sox win.

The majority of people didn't think Eloy should ever play LF again when he was injured and were afraid he might hurt Robert. I was one of very few who looked at the situation objectively and said there was no way the Sox weren't going to play Eloy in LF when he returned.

Yes ton's of upside, who here doesn't get that ? You don't win banking on upside . The upside has to be realized or you take a seat when there is a lot of talent performing better vying for that playing time.

The irony is that this applies to Eloy as well.  You have to be healthy to take advantage of your upside, and he still hasn't proven he can do that.  Eloy repeating his 2021 performance doesn't help the team either.  We can't just bank on one of these guys exploding while assuming the other one won't. when there is a plenty of contradictory evidence to go around.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

If on mobile, hold the "e" key and it'll bring up the option. If on a computer, easiest way IMO is to just Google his name and copy and paste the "é". 

I didn't turn it into a Jewish joke. @caulfield12 is the one that typed it. Why am I getting the blame? Smh

Ron Ron Ron of course you turned it into a joke. That's how people took it judging by the laugh emoji. That's a lot of work just to type a player name on a non Spanish keyboard. I'm pretty sure his nickname has been typed dozens of times in the past on the board without anyone scolding someone for not taking the time to do what you suggest. Own up to it brother. It's just part of your running semi-feud with Caulfield.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He goes by Kike right? I must've missed some argument somewhere loll

You missed the part about Ron883 because Kike without the acute accent ( The acute accent (é) is by far the most common diacritic in the Spanish language. It can appear above all five vowels: á, é, í, ó, ú. ) is Kike which is a racist term for Jews which Ron883 pointed out to Caulfield because Ron gonna Ron.

Edited November 15, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Snopek]

Would y’all be happy with this offseason?

1) RF: Conforto

2) 2B: Escobar

3) Backup catcher: Manny Piña

4) SP: Alex Wood (incentive based contract for IP)

5) RP: Resign Tepera

And for those of you that have a better feel for budget and contract expectations, is this even in the ballpark of being realistic? Would these moves require offloading most of Kimbrel and/or Keuchel’s contracts?
 

I think it’s hard to effectively fill all holes in an offseason, so there are definite flaws here (SP and RP depth).

Edited November 15, 2021 by Snopek

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

2 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Would y’all be happy with this offseason?

1) RF: Conforto

2) 2B: Escobar

3) Backup catcher: Manny Piña

4) SP: Alex Wood (incentive based contract for IP)

5) RP: Resign Tepera

And for those of you that have a better feel for budget and contract expectations, is this even in the ballpark of being realistic? Would these moves require offloading most of Kimbrel and/or Keuchel’s contracts?
 

I think it’s hard to effectively fill all holes in an offseason, so there are definite flaws here (SP and RP depth).

Absolutely seem realistic to me and I don't think you'd need to dump any of the guys to be able to do this. I would like this offseason but would wish they could do better than Wood and would dump Keuchel to do so.  I do like that Wood has been successful in both the rotation and bullpen though.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Would y’all be happy with this offseason?

1) RF: Conforto

2) 2B: Escobar

3) Backup catcher: Manny Piña

4) SP: Alex Wood (incentive based contract for IP)

5) RP: Resign Tepera

And for those of you that have a better feel for budget and contract expectations, is this even in the ballpark of being realistic? Would these moves require offloading most of Kimbrel and/or Keuchel’s contracts?
 

I think it’s hard to effectively fill all holes in an offseason, so there are definite flaws here (SP and RP depth).

I'd be ok with it, it generally seems realistic, it probably puts the White Sox in the neighborhood of $185 million if they don't get rid of Kimbrel so whether or not they are forced to move one of those contracts depends on what the White Sox's payroll limit is (and I still am not going to make a guess at that before we see a CBA finalized).

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Would y’all be happy with this offseason?

1) RF: Conforto

2) 2B: Escobar

3) Backup catcher: Manny Piña

4) SP: Alex Wood (incentive based contract for IP)

5) RP: Resign Tepera

And for those of you that have a better feel for budget and contract expectations, is this even in the ballpark of being realistic? Would these moves require offloading most of Kimbrel and/or Keuchel’s contracts?
 

I think it’s hard to effectively fill all holes in an offseason, so there are definite flaws here (SP and RP depth).

My take is that in february people will be yearning for an offseason this good

 

[bmags]

for catcher, I think we'll get "competition". I'd like to throw a ST invite to Robinson Chirinos.

[Flash]

5 hours ago, kleedawg said:

Moose is shift reliant as he has little range at 2b, castillo would be nice. Winker hits a quality lh bat, but he is bad defensively...another DH type. In fact, CBS sportsline had a recent article stating he should be a DH, skewered his defense.

Yep. Agree with your assessment. Would prefer not taking on Moose' contract but guessing that would be the motivating factor for Reds to consider moving Castillo (although rumor mill is alive with Castillo trade talk) and for me, Winker over Jimenez is an easy one, their relative defensive shortcomings notwithstanding. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

Would y’all be happy with this offseason?

1) RF: Conforto

2) 2B: Escobar

3) Backup catcher: Manny Piña

4) SP: Alex Wood (incentive based contract for IP)

5) RP: Resign Tepera

And for those of you that have a better feel for budget and contract expectations, is this even in the ballpark of being realistic? Would these moves require offloading most of Kimbrel and/or Keuchel’s contracts?
 

I think it’s hard to effectively fill all holes in an offseason, so there are definite flaws here (SP and RP depth).

I think it’s possible if you trade Kimbrel.  But then you probably need another reliever or two to fill in the gaps.  Regardless, I’d rather go cheap at 2B and pursue a starting pitcher with a bit more upside than Wood.

[Chicago White Sox]

55 minutes ago, bmags said:

My take is that in february people will be yearning for an offseason this good

 

?

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, Snopek said:

3) Backup catcher: Manny Piña

Your plan sucks

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think it’s possible if you trade Kimbrel.  But then you probably need another reliever or two to fill in the gaps.  Regardless, I’d rather go cheap at 2B and pursue a starting pitcher with a bit more upside than Wood.

They pretty much already need one reliever to replace Kopech and another to replace Tepera (unless they re-sign him). Trading Kimbrel (unless you get a younger reliever or two in the deal that you can plug into the bullpen) makes 3.

[South Side Hit Men]

7 hours ago, FoxForce2 said:

 Not even 'essentially'. The time he did at Schaumberg doesn't count as day-in day-out play in competition: on the road, differing ballparks, differing pitchers etc. He went from College to an extended training camp and then into major league ball and at a new position to boot. One giant step for anyone.

Not to mention learning a new, more challenging position (LF > 1B) on the fly and acclimating well from Opening Day.

[Chicago White Sox]

30 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

They pretty much already need one reliever to replace Kopech and another to replace Tepera (unless they re-sign him). Trading Kimbrel (unless you get a younger reliever or two in the deal that you can plug into the bullpen) makes 3.

Fully agree and Hahn has alluded to as much.

[maloney.adam]

 

[FoxForce2]

I liked Pina at catch and most FA evaluations had him at $2 - 2.5 mil/yr. The Braves signed him today at $8 mil/2yr.  No mention of conditions or incentives. Early guess is that the market is going to revv more than most have been estimating.

[joejoesox]

is Zack Collins the 2022 backup?

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

is Zack Collins the 2022 backup?

I doubt it.  I think he gets moved to a team that thinks he might be able to hit RHP if he abandons catching altogether or he ends up as our #3 catcher down in AAA.  He simply didn’t show enough potential defensively to be anything more than that.

[bmags]

So I exported the BP Catcher Stats and sorted them by the Free agent catchers.

Here's some good-to-knows (this is 2021 only)

Best FA catchers rated at blocking:

Yan Gomez (.4 Blocking Runs)
Roberto Peres (.2 Blocking Runs)
Alex Avila (.2 Blocking runs)
Austin Romine (.1 Blocking runs)
Sandy Leon (.1 Blocking Runs

For Context:
Yaz 0.0 so...uh err
Seby -0.2
Zack -0.6

Best rated at Throwing out runners
Kurt Suzuki - 0.3
Wilson Ramos - 0.1
Stephen Vogt - 0.1
Jose Lobaton - 0.1

For Context:
Zack Collins - 0.4
Yaz - 0.1
Seby - 0.0
(BP takes into account

Best rated at Framing
Maldonado - 2.3
Vogt - 1.7
Knapp - 1.2
Mathis - 0.7
Vaille - 0.1

For Context:
Yaz - 3.1
Seby - 0.7
Zack - -10.1

Overall Defensive Adjustment
Maldonado - 1.8
Vogt - 1.8
Knapp - 0.4

(Yaz was 3.2, Seby 0.0)

Offensive wRC+ for those catchers:
Maldonado - 63 (steamer projection - 73)
Vogt - 64 (steamer projection - 83)
Knapp - 17 (steamer projection - 72)

(Seby - 66 with steamer projection of 60)

Robinson Chirinos has a negative CDA of 0.3 (essentially he is completely average in all categories) with a wRC last year of 108 and a steamer of 85.

I think looking at this, you are probably best off throwing ST invites at Chirinos, but maybe a ML deal to Vogt.

There would be good reason to go after Yan Gomez, he provides nearly average offense and good blocking, but BP hates his framing and throwing, which could be an issue.

 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

34 minutes ago, bmags said:

So I exported the BP Catcher Stats and sorted them by the Free agent catchers.

Here's some good-to-knows (this is 2021 only)

Best FA catchers rated at blocking:

Yan Gomez (.4 Blocking Runs)
Roberto Peres (.2 Blocking Runs)
Alex Avila (.2 Blocking runs)
Austin Romine (.1 Blocking runs)
Sandy Leon (.1 Blocking Runs

For Context:
Yaz 0.0 so...uh err
Seby -0.2
Zack -0.6

Best rated at Throwing out runners
Kurt Suzuki - 0.3
Wilson Ramos - 0.1
Stephen Vogt - 0.1
Jose Lobaton - 0.1

For Context:
Zack Collins - 0.4
Yaz - 0.1
Seby - 0.0
(BP takes into account

Best rated at Framing
Maldonado - 2.3
Vogt - 1.7
Knapp - 1.2
Mathis - 0.7
Vaille - 0.1

For Context:
Yaz - 3.1
Seby - 0.7
Zack - -10.1

Overall Defensive Adjustment
Maldonado - 1.8
Vogt - 1.8
Knapp - 0.4

(Yaz was 3.2, Seby 0.0)

Offensive wRC+ for those catchers:
Maldonado - 63 (steamer projection - 73)
Vogt - 64 (steamer projection - 83)
Knapp - 17 (steamer projection - 72)

(Seby - 66 with steamer projection of 60)

Robinson Chirinos has a negative CDA of 0.3 (essentially he is completely average in all categories) with a wRC last year of 108 and a steamer of 85.

I think looking at this, you are probably best off throwing ST invites at Chirinos, but maybe a ML deal to Vogt.

There would be good reason to go after Yan Gomez, he provides nearly average offense and good blocking, but BP hates his framing and throwing, which could be an issue.

 

 

I would expect Yan Gomes to get a starting job.