Kopech as a starter

[Chimpton]

Just interested to know what people think about Kopech as a starter for next season, as it seems that with the non-QO to Rodon this is the way the FO is going.

• Is Kopech ready to be a MLB starter? He was good and bad out of the pen last season but will he be better starting? Is it now or never for him as a starter?
• Should he have another season out of the pen? Is that worth it, if he is ever going to be a starter?
• Should he be traded while his value is still high-ish? If he isn't suited to starting for the Sox is it best to trade him for someone who is more able to help immediately?

In my opinion if he is ever going to make it as a starter then he needs to start next season, but my worry is that with Keuchal and Kopech would that leave the starting rotation too weak?

All opinions gratefully accepted!

[hi8is]

6 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Is Kopech ready to be a MLB starter? He was good and bad out of the pen last season but will he be better starting? Is it now or never for him as a starter?

Yes. He’ll be more valuable to us starting. No.

6 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Should he have another season out of the pen? Is that worth it, if he is ever going to be a starter?

No. No.

6 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Should he be traded while his value is still high-ish? If he isn't suited to starting for the Sox is it best to trade him for someone who is more able to help immediately?

No. No.

No further questions, Ton of Chimp poster guy.

Edited November 9, 2021 by hi8is

[Chimpton]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

Yes. He’ll be more valuable to us starting. No.

No. No.

No. No.

No further questions, Your Honor.

Thank you but no need to address me as 'your honour' I am not a Lord or anything! ?

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, Chimpton said:

Thank you but no need to address me as 'your honour' I am not a Lord or anything! ?

Fixed.

[Balta1701]

1. Kopech should be starting this year. He has a decent chance of being a better starter than reliever, he has the arm, the secondary stuff to succeed as a starter.

2. No, technically they could always wait another year and turn him into a starter, but whenever it is done they would have the same problem - the innings jump. 

3. Whenever Kopech is turned into a starter he will have an innings limit because it will be a big jump from his previous year. That means something like 130 - 150 innings, if reached, will see his arm hitting a wall and you don’t want to just push him through it without rest. So, if you do turn him into a starter, you will probably need someone to take 10 or more starts.

4. He does have an injury history, so there is need for caution. However, if he gets a minor injury you still have to try to work him back into the rotation afterwards, otherwise you really are giving up on him as a starter.

5. He could very well be a top of the rotation starter, but he should not be off limits in trade discussions. If you got a front line starter for him who was already stretched out, or an all star at a position of need with several years of control, there could be some benefit to moving him overall. It is unlikely there is a match out there for that, but worth checking on.

[ChiSox59]

I am extremely bullish on Kopech as a starter.  Truthfully, I think he can be one of the best in the game.

There will be some lumps in 2022, and you can't expect him to pitch more than 150 innings or so.  But its time.  He's going to be good.  Its just a damn shame we're already down to 4 years of control due to  complete mismanagement. 

I expect him to be one of our better SP next summer.  

Edited November 9, 2021 by ChiSox59

[Two-Gun Pete]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

There will be some lumps in 2022, and you can't expect him to pitch more than 150 innings or so.  But its time.  He's going to be good.  Its just a damn shame we're already down to 4 years of control due to  complete mismanagement. 

OMFG, this. Exactly this.

They had the cover needed to send Kopech down to start 2021, to wit, his injury recovery. All it would have cost was for them to sign an additional RP as a token to take Kopech's spot in the pen to start 2021.

But instead, those morons couldn't do what was necessary to protect the club's interests, while helping Kopech to transition to starting. Now, we're back into "wish-and-hope" mode, hoping that he can get stretched out during ST.

Now, I hope they've learned something, but I doubt it. I hope that they can find the what, ~$2-3MM to sign an additional RP, to let Crochet get stretched out in MiLB? If signing another RP for a paltry amount can help Crochet get stretched out to a cromulent starter, Crochet could easily recoup the value/dollars spent to let him go down to MiLB. 

[kleedawg]

1. Kopech should most definitely be a starter and the FO has stated as much. He has 4 quality pitches to throw.

2. No, he shouldn't be a pensman again.

3. I'm not currently worried about the strength of the starting rotation because its constituents are about to change. I think Keuchel will be traded and at least 1 FA pitcher will be acquired.

4. I think Lopez will be a longman/spot/6th man as the year progresses. Longman out of the pen in April when we have lots of off days. Spot starter through early part of season. Then 6th man. This will help limit inning s Kopech and keep other pitchers fresh for the playoffs. Acquiring a innings eating starter at the deadline or a vet that can come out of pen and spot start might also be a possibility. Maybe Keuchel's role if retained. Lots of possibilities here.

5. No, he should not be traded anytime soon.

[EloyJenkins]

39 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I am extremely bullish on Kopech as a starter.  Truthfully, I think he can be one of the best in the game.

There will be some lumps in 2022, and you can't expect him to pitch more than 150 innings or so.  But its time.  He's going to be good.  Its just a damn shame we're already down to 4 years of control due to  complete mismanagement. 

I expect him to be one of our better SP next summer.  

They also can use the fact that they didnt play games with him as an extension tactic...one that has a strong chance this season or next. Sox have done amazing work Not F'ing prospects over and offering meaningful, discounted extensions when it feels right for both.

[Chicago White Sox]

We have two more years of control of Giolito and three more years of Lynn.  We’re going to need Kopech to assume one of the top two spots in the rotation for the 2024 & 2025 seasons.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We have two more years of control of Giolito and three more years of Lynn.  We’re going to need Kopech to assume one of the top two spots in the rotation for the 2024 & 2025 seasons.

Only 2 more years of Gio and Lynn, each. 

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Only 2 more years of Gio and Lynn, each. 

We have an option on Lynn for 2024.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We have an option on Lynn for 2024.

Thanks, completely forgot about that.  Appreciate reminder. 

[MEANS]

Just not sold on him being a starter. He's more of a Thrower than a Pitcher right now.

[FoxForce2]

7 minutes ago, MEANS said:

Just not sold on him being a starter. He's more of a Thrower than a Pitcher right now.

A young guy going as a reliever will do that to him. As a starter he'll be using more pitches and have a different mindset about the game. It might take awhile to get into the flow.

[Green Line]

Disaster.

[NWINFan]

10 hours ago, MEANS said:

Just not sold on him being a starter. He's more of a Thrower than a Pitcher right now.

I am not sold on this either and have never bought the Kopech hype. His development has been delayed by the injury and his sitting out the COVID year. He may still be an excellent pitcher, but he, like Cease, needs the learning that comes from experience. In any event, he needs to log in some innings if he is truly to become a major league pitcher. He will have some bad starts to do this.

[Chimpton]

4 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

I am not sold on this either and have never bought the Kopech hype. His development has been delayed by the injury and his sitting out the COVID year. He may still be an excellent pitcher, but he, like Cease, needs the learning that comes from experience. In any event, he needs to log in some innings if he is truly to become a major league pitcher. He will have some bad starts to do this.

Does he have to 'log some innings' as a starter at MLB level now? I would be less worried if I thought Keuchel was going to be any good in 2022. 

It does of course beg the next question which is what to do with Crochet next season, does he spend another season in the pen at MLB level or would a year or a significant part of a year at MiLB as a starter be better for him.

[SouthSideGeorgia]

My concern is this coaching staff “managing” Kopech’s innings next year. Seems like it would behoove the Sox to take a calculated risk and manage his early workload, so there is a better chance for Kopech to make it to the ‘22 playoffs strong.
 

Obviously, the risks being that he definitely needs the experience as a starter early to prove himself, the Sox may need the wins early in the standings to make it to the playoffs, etc. But as we saw with Rodon, it seems the Sox coaches may likely just throw him every fifth day leading up to the ASG and then start managing it there after. I’m not sure this is the best approach, since Kopech has top of the rotation potential, and you may want him in a best of 5 or 7 game playoff series. 
 

Keuchel, Lopez and maybe a free agent addition as starter may be key for the Sox to spell Kopech during the early season. However, Keuchel needs to be managed below 160-innings unless he returns to form early, sInce it will kick off an expensive additional year in 2023. Lots of dynamics to how the Sox manage the starters. 
 

They may go through the same challenges in 2023 with ramping up Crochet as starter. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by SouthSideGeorgia

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, SouthSideGeorgia said:

My concern is this coaching staff “managing” Kopech’s innings next year. Seems like it would behoove the Sox to take a calculated risk and manage his early workload, so there is a better chance for Kopech to make it to the ‘22 playoffs strong.
 

Obviously, the risks being that he definitely needs the experience as a starter early to prove himself, the Sox may need the wins early in the standings to make it to the playoffs, etc. But as we saw with Rodon, it seems the Sox coaches may likely just throw him every fifth day leading up to the ASG and then start managing it there after. I’m not sure this is the best approach, since Kopech has top of the rotation potential, and you may want him in a best of 5 or 7 game playoff series. 
 

Keuchel, Lopez and maybe a free agent addition as starter may be key for the Sox to spell Kopech during the early season. However, Keuchel needs to be managed below 160-innings unless he returns to form early, sInce it will kick off an expensive additional year in 2023. Lots of dynamics to how the Sox manage the starters. 
 

They may go through the same challenges in 2023 with ramping up Crochet as starter. 

I know there is a lot of discussion about this that references Carlos Rodon, but let's not forget that Dylan Cease just made a similar leap and seemingly did it pretty flawlessly.  Rodon gets more attention because of his higher achievements plus his fall off at the last month of the season, but Cease had just up a big ramp up.