Lance Lynn Cy Young Finalist

[southsider2k5]

 

[EloyJenkins]

Good for him. With a slightly stronger 2nd half he would have nailed this. Robby Ray is a lock here. 

[southsider2k5]

Ray wins.

Sox place 4 pitchers in the top 11, including Lynn 3rd.  2 of the four were acquired this year in Lynn and Hendriks. 

[wegner]

Good luck, ya big bastard!!

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Burnes won in the NL. Remember when people didn't want the Sox to trade for him because he wasn't established or whatever the reasoning was.  A player isn't last years WAR number or slash line.  They get better.

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Burnes won in the NL. Remember when people didn't want the Sox to trade for him because he wasn't established or whatever the reasoning was.  A player isn't last years WAR number or slash line.  They get better.

Burnes' inning count was significantly lower than Wheeler, who many thought would win based on "overall" performance across a number of statistical categories, but the playoff-bound Brewers must have factored in.  Some thought Scherzer, part of that was obviously based on name/reputation, but he had a really solid year, obviously.

In the NL MVP, none of the three favorites were in the post-season.

 

Montas being in the Top 10 of the Cy voting being another reminder of how badly that trade went awry, along with Semien's current asking price this off-season and Bassitt's playoff start against the White Sox in 2020.

[Chicago White Sox]

16 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Burnes' inning count was significantly lower than Wheeler, who many thought would win based on "overall" performance across a number of statistical categories, but the playoff-bound Brewers must have factored in.  Some thought Scherzer, part of that was obviously based on name/reputation, but he had a really solid year, obviously.

In the NL MVP, none of the three favorites were in the post-season.

 

Montas being in the Top 10 of the Cy voting being another reminder of how badly that trade went awry, along with Semien's current asking price this off-season and Bassitt's playoff start against the White Sox in 2020.

Montas was in the Todd Frazier trade and not the Shark deal.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Montas was in the Todd Frazier trade and not the Shark deal.

"Montas wasn’t directly traded from Chicago to Oakland like Bassitt was, but he was dealt to the Los Angeles Dodgers as part of a three-team deal with Cincinnati that netted Chicago third baseman Todd Frazier. Montas would later be traded to Oakland, along with Jharel Cotton, for Rich Hill and Josh Reddick."

 

I guess both teams came out okay because Hill was solid for the Dodgers, but LA would have been better off holding on to the much cheaper Montas.

Frazier and company netted us a return that looked okay on paper but clearly didn't turn out that way.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

"Montas wasn’t directly traded from Chicago to Oakland like Bassitt was, but he was dealt to the Los Angeles Dodgers as part of a three-team deal with Cincinnati that netted Chicago third baseman Todd Frazier. Montas would later be traded to Oakland, along with Jharel Cotton, for Rich Hill and Josh Reddick."

 

I guess both teams came out okay because Hill was solid for the Dodgers, but LA would have been better off holding on to the much cheaper Montas.

Frazier and company netted us a return that looked okay on paper but clearly didn't turn out that way.

Frazier wasn’t as good as advertised (too many IFBs), but I’m not losing sleep over that trade.  It made sense at the time and he still gave us ~3 wins a season.

[South Side Hit Men]

Indeed, this is the proper take.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

49 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Burnes' inning count was significantly lower than Wheeler, who many thought would win based on "overall" performance across a number of statistical categories, but the playoff-bound Brewers must have factored in.  Some thought Scherzer, part of that was obviously based on name/reputation, but he had a really solid year, obviously.

In the NL MVP, none of the three favorites were in the post-season.

 

Montas being in the Top 10 of the Cy voting being another reminder of how badly that trade went awry, along with Semien's current asking price this off-season and Bassitt's playoff start against the White Sox in 2020.

Buehler and Urias had damn good years with the Dodgers maybe not Burnes, Scherzer, Wheeler type years but not far off either.

[MackowiakYakYak]

I’d say it’s worth using a fancy stats ERA equivalent and innings pitched as what a voter looks at first. ERA misses out on defense and luck a bit too much. I still don’t think I’d give a 1st place vote to someone with a mediocre ERA if the fancy stats are great, but the focus should be on how effective the pitcher was at doing what he could control.

[southsider2k5]

16 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Burnes won in the NL. Remember when people didn't want the Sox to trade for him because he wasn't established or whatever the reasoning was.  A player isn't last years WAR number or slash line.  They get better.

But the Sox can't evaluate MLB talent.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

But the Sox can't evaluate MLB talent.

So a trade that never happened is a way to prove the Sox can evaluate talent ?

Pretty funny and ironic, that you said this in response to the Corbin Burnes trade to the Sox rumor which you were 100% against in many posts and turned out to be 100% wrong in everything you were afraid of. You and I had a discourse in that thread also and you rebuked everything I said yet I turned out right and you were wrong.

Yet the Sox, in your book, get credit for being great talent evaluators when they couldn't make the trade, most likely because they offered too little.

Then they turn around and trade the rumored centerpieces of that rumored trade, Madrigal and Heuer, for a relief pitcher Kimbrel who failed miserably .Then trade for a 2nd basement who also failed  for one of the only minor league pitchers the Sox had showing any progress during the season.

That's some mighty fine talent evaluation right there by the Sox and yourself !

Edited November 18, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So a trade that never happened is a way to prove the Sox can evaluate talent ?

Pretty funny and ironic, that you said this in response to the Corbin Burnes trade to the Sox rumor which you were 100% against in many posts and turned out to be 100% wrong in everything you were afraid of. You and I had a discourse in that thread also and you rebuked everything I said yet I turned out right and you were wrong.

Yet the Sox, in your book, get credit for being great talent evaluators when they couldn't make the trade, most likely because they offered too little.

Then they turn around and trade the rumored centerpieces of that rumored trade, Madrigal and Heuer, for a relief pitcher Kimbrel who failed miserably .Then trade for a 2nd basement who also failed  for one of the only minor league pitchers the Sox had showing any progress during the season.

That's some mighty fine talent evaluation right there by the Sox and yourself !

I will say three things here.

#1 the Sox apparently don't get credit for targeting Burnes in your world.

#2, My ability to evaluate talent and the Sox ability to evaluate talent are two different subjects, and shouldn't be falsely equated.  As you probably know, I am not being paid by the White Sox to bring in talent.

#3, if you are still that upset over an internet discussion from a year ago, that's too bad.  Personally I had forgotten about it.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will say three things here.

#1 the Sox apparently don't get credit for targeting Burnes in your world.

#2, My ability to evaluate talent and the Sox ability to evaluate talent are two different subjects, and shouldn't be falsely equated.  As you probably know, I am not being paid by the White Sox to bring in talent.

#3, if you are still that upset over an internet discussion from a year ago, that's too bad.  Personally I had forgotten about it.

Not upset in the least. You are pretty full of yourself . There was no false equating. I merely pointed out you both suck at it .  Targeting good players while not offering enough in trade for them or offering them or offering enough money to sign them apparently means a lot more to you than it does to me.

They were so good at evaluating talent that they thought he was worth a 2nd baseman and a relief pitcher that they then traded for a relief pitcher. Young starter with Cy Young ability making peanuts was worth an old relief pitcher making $16M a year who pitched so poorly they decided that Rodon wasn't worth a QO but kept Kimbrel and announced to the world they intend to trade him.

If they never win a championship that kind of talent evaluating will likely be remembered as the deal that sunk the Sox.

Offer enough for Burnes and they could have won the World Series this year if Milwaukee bit.

Make decent trades at the deadline they could've won the World Series like Atlanta did. Keep carrying that water.

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Not upset in the least. You are pretty full of yourself . There was no false equating. I merely pointed out you both suck at it .  Targeting good players while not offering enough in trade for them or offering them or offering enough money to sign them apparently means a lot more to you than it does to me.

They were so good at evaluating talent that they thought he was worth a 2nd baseman and a relief pitcher that they then traded for a relief pitcher. Young starter with Cy Young ability making peanuts was worth an old relief pitcher making $16M a year who pitched so poorly they decided that Rodon wasn't worth a QO but kept Kimbrel and announced to the world they intend to trade him.

If they never win a championship that kind of talent evaluating will likely be remembered as the deal that sunk the Sox.

Offer enough for Burnes and they could have won the World Series this year if Milwaukee bit.

Make decent trades at the deadline they could've won the World Series like Atlanta did. Keep carrying that water.

The Sox suck at it, while you excel, and yet you both wanted to trade for the same player.  Sounds like bitterness to me.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

28 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox suck at it, while you excel, and yet you both wanted to trade for the same player.  Sounds like bitterness to me.

You are so good at projecting how others feel . I'm so bitter and upset. ?.

I don't believe for a minute that you had forgotten about your takes in that Burnes thread. That thread was reopened in September and I pointed out some good and bad takes including yours  . The thread was then locked. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were the one who locked itbecause you looked so foolish.

Edited November 19, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You are so good at projecting how others feel . I'm so bitter and upset. ?.

I don't believe for a minute that you had forgotten about your takes in that Burnes thread. That thread was reopened in September and I pointed out some good and bad takes including yours  . The thread was then locked. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you were the one who locked it.

Yes you are so not upset, you are still bringing it up, after bringing it up again about it two months ago.  Plus still upset about it being locked that you need to project on that as well.

Sounds exactly like someone who isn't holding on to bitterness.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yes you are so not upset, you are still bringing it up, after bringing it up again about it two months ago.  Plus still upset about it being locked that you need to project on that as well.

Sounds exactly like someone who isn't holding on to bitterness.

Hey let's keep this dialogue going . Remember when you wanted Garrett Richards instead of trading better prospects for Corbin Burnes ? Good times ! Keep those psych evaluations coming ?.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Hey let's keep this dialogue going . Remember when you wanted Garrett Richards instead of trading better prospects for Corbin Burnes ? Good times ! Keep those psych evaluations coming ?.

Yep, keep telling me how this doesn't bother you.  Move on man.  Let it go.

[kleedawg]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Hey let's keep this dialogue going . Remember when you wanted Garrett Richards instead of trading better prospects for Corbin Burnes ? Good times ! Keep those psych evaluations coming ?.

 

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Yep, keep telling me how this doesn't bother you.  Move on man.  Let it go.

Have you guys heard that Lance Lynne was nominated for a Cy Young? I love how he text Hahn message board quality off season transaction suggestions.

[caulfield12]

On the possibility of Burnes being traded…seems majority of Brewers’ fans were against it, some wanted Hader finally dealt, others preferred Houser.  Pretty clear that many could see the outlines of that dominant rotation forming, with the idea of dealing surplus only to get a true haul back on the offensive side of things.  Stearns is one of the best GM’s out there, full stop.

 

They didn’t get a good enough offer

“Their ask was really high and it didn’t match up. Only a few teams can or will actually trade for him. A bunch of teams don’t even try to compete (like the Pirates) and rival execs according to Passan called it too much. Eventually the value (control years) will go down where it will match up and hopefully he can be dominant for our favorite team until that happens.”

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2020/11/18/21573332/milwaukee-brewers-are-calling-other-teams-as-they-look-to-add-hitters-per-report

 

 

Also found this little gem from Jesse Rogers.

Is it possible (for the Cubs) to compete this year and retool for the future at the same time?

Rogers: Absolutely. The best way to do that would be to trade closer Craig Kimbrel. That's one guy out of 26 who impacts games every few days. It would be a loss, but righty Ryan Tepera was just named reliever of the month in May; perhaps he could step up for a two-month run as closer. Either way, Kimbrel could bring back a few good prospects while the Cubs continue on their winning ways. Competing doesn't necessarily mean winning it all. The Cubs could definitely do both -- even if they trade more than just Kimbrel.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31565787/the-cubs-actually-good-they-do-trade-deadline

Edited November 19, 2021 by caulfield12