GM Meetings - Front Office Diversity

[maloney.adam]

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Just now, maloney.adam said:

 

I've never been a fan of hiring someone based on color, or forcing interviews based on color.  Hire the best person, whoever that may be. Wasn't Willie Harris interviewed last year here just because we HAD to interview a minority due to some rule?  Poor Willie, that would suck to be a "token interview", since they already made their horrible minds up with Larussa.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I've never been a fan of hiring someone based on color, or forcing interviews based on color.  Hire the best person, whoever that may be. Wasn't Willie Harris interviewed last year here just because we HAD to interview a minority due to some rule?  Poor Willie, that would suck to be a "token interview", since they already made their horrible minds up with Larussa.

Here's the thing.  If everyone looks exactly the same, they are either saying the best people for the job are all white males, or they are all saying they aren't hiring the best guys.

[bmags]

Notable: Kenny Williams in this says his current contract will be his last.

I feel for Williams, but it's hard not to look at the org underneath him and wonder what pipeline he is building. 

Hahn, Fabian, Haber, Hostetler, Shirley, Koenig. I do not know Zein well.

Paddy is excellent, and they did move Steverson into a role. But other than that, Kenny's son was hired. 

[South Side Hit Men]

Would like to see Kim Ng take over when Kenny's contract is over, have strong consideration for POC for the GM and managerial roles.

Also hope they reach out to Abreu to see if he is interested in a FO role, since he is young enough to make an impact. Could also be mentored under Paddy (promote him), if he would prefer spending more time overseas, or begin learning roles under the FO if he would like to stay in Chicago after his career. Nobody is more passionate about White Sox baseball.

Tim is very smart, may also be a great consideration when his career is over. Player "ambassadors" are nice if someone is looking for a paycheck and not much responsibility, but there are many out former players looking for a formal opportunity if only one was offered. Kenny Williams was one of Jerry Reinsdorf's greatest accomplishments in his 40 years of baseball, also giving Manuel, Ozzie and Ricky opportunities as well.

 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

From Ken's article.

Quote

The Royals’ Moore listened intently to Williams at the GM meetings, agreeing that teams need to increase the diversity in their front offices. But in Moore’s opinion, to attract more Black front-office talent, the sport needs more Black players. And from his perspective, MLB’s reduction of minor-league affiliates from 160 to 120 — a step the league took in 2021 to assume greater control over the minors and make player development more cost-effective — was a move in the wrong direction.

“It’s like I’ve said to (deputy commissioner) Dan Halem and everyone who wants to listen, when you round, reduce and contract minor-league teams, then you’re not drafting and signing African-American players, how are you ever going to get African-American scouts, coaches and executives? You need more opportunities for players to play. And then they naturally progress into getting jobs.”

 

[bmags]

And in support of Sox interviewing Harris, he became the Cubs 3rd base coach after that, when he was just a low-level minor league manager. Willie got that job, but it is a nice way to boost candidates. I thought it was nice of sox to do.

[southsider2k5]

26 minutes ago, bmags said:

Notable: Kenny Williams in this says his current contract will be his last.

I feel for Williams, but it's hard not to look at the org underneath him and wonder what pipeline he is building. 

Hahn, Fabian, Haber, Hostetler, Shirley, Koenig. I do not know Zein well.

Paddy is excellent, and they did move Steverson into a role. But other than that, Kenny's son was hired. 

This is huge.  I hadn't read the article,  but this is as big of a change as has happened with the Sox in a really, really long time.

[CentralChamps21]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Here's the thing.  If everyone looks exactly the same, they are either saying the best people for the job are all white males, or they are all saying they aren't hiring the best guys.

The best people for the job are white males because they aren't hiring the best people for the lower level jobs who work their way up to the top jobs.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is huge.  I hadn't read the article,  but this is as big of a change as has happened with the Sox in a really, really long time.

Well, depending on what JR does I wouldn't be shocked if Hahn bumps up and Haber takes over as GM.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well, depending on what JR does I wouldn't be shocked if Hahn bumps up and Haber takes over as GM.

I also can't help but think this is funny timing for it to come out after the TLR experience of JR going over all of their heads.  Typically I would expect them to promote Hahn, but I still wonder how good he is with getting usurped and embarrassed like that.

[chetkincaid]

If KW goes to another team, I will instantly become a fan of that team. 

[Chisoxfn]

When is KW's contract up? For all we know he has like a lifetime or 10+ year agreement with JR.  

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

When is KW's contract up? For all we know he has like a lifetime or 10+ year agreement with JR.  

He wouldn't say.

[bmags]

11 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

When is KW's contract up? For all we know he has like a lifetime or 10+ year agreement with JR.  

Definitely possible, didn't come across that way though. I can't believe KW is in his 60s!

[ron883]

5 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Would like to see Kim Ng take over when Kenny's contract is over, have strong consideration for POC for the GM and managerial roles.

Also hope they reach out to Abreu to see if he is interested in a FO role, since he is young enough to make an impact. Could also be mentored under Paddy (promote him), if he would prefer spending more time overseas, or begin learning roles under the FO if he would like to stay in Chicago after his career. Nobody is more passionate about White Sox baseball.

Tim is very smart, may also be a great consideration when his career is over. Player "ambassadors" are nice if someone is looking for a paycheck and not much responsibility, but there are many out former players looking for a formal opportunity if only one was offered. Kenny Williams was one of Jerry Reinsdorf's greatest accomplishments in his 40 years of baseball, also giving Manuel, Ozzie and Ricky opportunities as well.

 

 

I can't imagine Jose negotiating with that gigantic chaw in his lower lip

[Dick Allen]

46 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

When is KW's contract up? For all we know he has like a lifetime or 10+ year agreement with JR.  

The last I read JR said he gave long term extensions to KW and RH 4 years ago. I have mentioned this before, KWs wife recently quit her job at NBC Chicago. They could be looking at taking it easy pretty soon.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The last I read JR said he gave long term extensions to KW and RH 4 years ago. I have mentioned this before, KWs wife recently quit her job at NBC Chicago. They could be looking at taking it easy pretty soon.

The article mentions he just signed an extension in 2020.

[South Side Hit Men]

Not surprised by the three ratings suggesting the Sox hire people having a vast experience with, and passion for, the Chicago White Sox. It’s a reflection of how far a substantial portion of MLB (called out by KW) and society still needs to move for the sport to become attractive to the society at large. The owner’s representative spent World Series week defending racist imagery and chanting. No wonder Kenny wants nothing to do with these people after observing them in action for decades.

[ron883]

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Not surprised by the three ratings suggesting the Sox hire people having a vast experience with, and passion for, the Chicago White Sox. It’s a reflection of how far a substantial portion of MLB (called out by KW) and society still needs to move for the sport to become attractive to the society at large. The owner’s representative spent World Series week defending racist imagery and chanting. No wonder Kenny wants nothing to do with these people after observing them in action for decades.

The three ratings? 

[Soxfest]

Leave today Kenny, I’m sure he has 6 to 10 years left on current deal unfortunately. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Soxfest

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

8 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I've never been a fan of hiring someone based on color, or forcing interviews based on color.  Hire the best person, whoever that may be. Wasn't Willie Harris interviewed last year here just because we HAD to interview a minority due to some rule?  Poor Willie, that would suck to be a "token interview", since they already made their horrible minds up with Larussa.

So, this is great in a vacuum but it's also a very white thing to say.

Fact is, you (just like most) have inherent biases and those biases easily infiltrate the concept of "best hire" to be one of someone who looks most like you. There have been tons of studies done on this.

I think Williams brings up a great point; for minority candidates they are often times discredited for not having enough experience, but a ton of white people get a shot with very little experience at all. Executive level positions in this country, in general (beyond just baseball) do not break down racially or gender-wise with either general population racial/gender identities or college education racial/gender identities. That alone should tell you that the "best candidate" is passed over time and time again.

Hell, women are still under paid, as are many minorities, in comparison to their equal-footed peers.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, Soxfest said:

Leave today Kenny, I’m sure he has 6 to 10 years left on current deal unfortunately. 

Why?

[South Side Hit Men]

The changes are effective immediately and are made to enhance diversity in future leadership of the sport. The modifications require several stipulations. 

*Any club making an internal promotion for a senior baseball operations position must provide the Commissioner’s Office with a succession plan for all of the club’s senior baseball operations positions. That plan requires the club to include diverse individuals for future leadership positions.

*In the event of a non-diverse internal promotion, it’s the Commissioner’s expectation that a diverse individual will be promoted, or hired, to a vacancy created by the promotion.

*A club must provide the Commissioner’s Office with notice of the internal promotion and the rationale for not conducting an external or internal interview process.

[Dominikk85]

Keith law ranted about that topic in a podcast recently. 

The Sabermetric movement actually made the situation for POC front office personnel worse. It was always a white world in front offices but at least there were a few black guys like Michael Hill, Dave Stewart etc because back then front offices were recruited from baseball lifers and usually former players. 

The ivy league movement decreased diversity because now every new GM is a young white Ivy league graduate. 

 

Obviously there are also qualified black ivy league graduates but those people are not chosen, the only way for black personnel to make it into baseball jobs is being a former pro player. 

There are rules for Diversity but Apparently teams circumvent that By inviting some former black GMs like Michael Hill to interviews with no intention of signing them.