Justin Verlander re-signs in Houston

[Boopa1219]

Glad Verlander isn’t on the Sox.

I think using $25M for a pitcher who’s almost 40 and coming off TJS is a bad use of resources if it’s a good sign for Jerry opening the checkbook. 

[maloney.adam]

https://mobile.twitter.com/bread_harolds

?

Edited November 18, 2021 by maloney.adam

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, maloney.adam said:

Lol

What's so funny?

[maloney.adam]

11 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

What's so funny?

That these random food accounts are popping up everywhere thinking they have sources, that’s what’s funny. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by maloney.adam

[SonofaRoache]

8 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

That these random food accounts are popping up everywhere thinking they have sources, that’s what’s funny. 

Oh, I just saw the link of Harold's soggy mild sauce bread. The best part of the meal haha. 

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

That these random food accounts are popping up everywhere thinking they have sources, that’s what’s funny. 

None of these new accounts think they have sources, they are doing this for attention and you are giving it to them.  Orlando literally parlayed all the Soxtalk attention given to the Al’s Cheesy Beef account into a legit Twitter following.  At least with NSC & Portillo’s, they at least got something right at one point in time (still mostly frauds IMO).  I’d advise against enabling more of these copycat accounts that clearly are fake.

[maloney.adam]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

None of these new accounts think they have sources, they are doing this for attention and you are giving it to them.  Orlando literally parlayed all the Soxtalk attention given to the Al’s Cheesy Beef account into a legit Twitter following.  At least with NSC & Portillo’s, they at least got something right at one point in time (still mostly frauds IMO).  I’d advise against enabling more of these copycat accounts that clearly are fake.

Yeah I agree but didn’t you say in the past though that Al’s Cheesy Beef and Portillo’s were not fraud’s or you were atleast starting to come around to them being legit because one of them kept saying we were going to sign Hendricks and than when we signed him, you were giving me credit for posting their tweets on here. Maybe I’m wrong or confused with something else. Anyways, we now know who Al’s was and like I said earlier I think Bartolo’s Colonoscopy is now Orlando.

Edited November 18, 2021 by maloney.adam

[hi8is]

2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Didn’t you say in the past though that Al’s Cheesy Beef and Portillo’s weren’t fraud’s though or was atleast starting to come around to them being legit because one of them kept saying we were going to sign Hendricks and than when we signed him, you were giving me credit for posting there tweets on here. Maybe I’m wrong. Anyways, we now know who Al’s was and like I said earlier I think Bartolo’s Colonoscopy is now Orlando.

It’s the off-season, what else do you expect us to do?

[maloney.adam]

7 minutes ago, hi8is said:

It’s the off-season, what else do you expect us to do?

There are periods in the offseason where it can be long and boring, I get it. Something definitely needs to be done about it.

Edited November 18, 2021 by maloney.adam

[Sarava]

Regardless on signing Verlander, I do hope this is a sign that the Sox recognize they must get a TOR starter. A TOR starter is a bigger need then a 2B or RF.

[Chimpton]

I do love the off season trade and FA rumours, I went to bed here in the UK to rumours the Sox were in for Verlander, and comments debating how good it would or wouldn't be, and then wake up to him re-signing for Houston and never wanted him comments and how he was expensive etc!

[Chicago White Sox]

7 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

Yeah I agree but didn’t you say in the past though that Al’s Cheesy Beef and Portillo’s were not fraud’s or you were atleast starting to come around to them being legit because one of them kept saying we were going to sign Hendricks and than when we signed him, you were giving me credit for posting their tweets on here. Maybe I’m wrong or confused with something else. Anyways, we now know who Al’s was and like I said earlier I think Bartolo’s Colonoscopy is now Orlando.

I’ve always believed that NSC and Portillo’s occasionally get some second hand info, but greatly exaggerate what they actually know (which is very little).  I don’t recall having a lot of faith in Al’s and it’s pretty clear he stole most of his shit from Soxtalk or other people on Twitter.  Regardless, anyone making a dumb pun-based Twitter account is almost certainly a fraud at this point and can be ignored IMO.  Honestly, I put more stock to a wild rumor if someone is willing to put their name to it then hide behind a stupid food based handle.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 hours ago, Sarava said:

Regardless on signing Verlander, I do hope this is a sign that the Sox recognize they must get a TOR starter. A TOR starter is a bigger need then a 2B or RF.

To me, left-handed power bat and TOR starter are my 1A & 1B.  The reality is we’re one injury away from having 3/5 of our rotation composed of two guys on innings limits in Dallas & Michael (one of whom was horrible) and a guy who probably came close to getting DFAed last year in Lopez.  Even with a great offense and in a week division, I’m not sure that rotation gets you to the postseason.

[Balta1701]

29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’ve always believed that NSC and Portillo’s occasionally get some second hand info, but greatly exaggerate what they actually know (which is very little).  I don’t recall having a lot of faith in Al’s and it’s pretty clear he stole most of his shit from Soxtalk or other people on Twitter.  Regardless, anyone making a dumb pun-based Twitter account is almost certainly a fraud at this point and can be ignored IMO.  Honestly, I put more stock to a wild rumor if someone is willing to put their name to it then hide behind a stupid food based handle.

Ironically, the more of these fake insiders there are, the more likely that one of them nails something by random guessing and then claims they broke the story.

[FoxForce2]

I like Matz. Unfortunately, so do a lot of others. He's not a TOR - now anyway, but he's shown improvement over the past few years and had a nice season last year. An entire staff of #2-3 starters is not a bad thing - with conditions. Still waiting for Gio to go full Ace.

[SCCWS]

6 hours ago, Sarava said:

Regardless on signing Verlander, I do hope this is a sign that the Sox recognize they must get a TOR starter. A TOR starter is a bigger need then a 2B or RF.

I don't think a  Verlander rumor which ended as fast as it began,  means the Sox recognize they must get a TOR starter.  TOR will most likely mean big bucks and I think Hahn will spend money but most likely in RF before TOR or 2B.  In fact, I wouldn't consider Verlander a TOR  at 40 coming off TJS. 

[bmags]

I think going after Bassit or Montas makes a lot of sense, especially since the As tend to value our prospects well. 
 

Yeah, heart of hearts I think swinging for Bassitt, Montas, or Luis Castillo make most sense. But I’ll puke for joy if we get Scherzer.

[Pants Rowland]

10 hours ago, kleedawg said:

Most people interpret the sox not giving Rodon a QO as evidence that they were afraid he would take it and that he is damaged goods. This is completely logically and possibly correct. However there is another possible interpretation. Consider the following:

1. I believe Rodon has made a significant mechanics change. Earlier in injury plagued career He was more upright and had to forcefully whip his arm to get velocity. This put strain on on the smaller muscles and ligaments which can lead to injury. Now he drives more with his legs which naturally whips his arm. He essentially takes much of the strain off his by pitching this way and he increase power as evidenced by the 100mph he has thrown this year. this could mean that some of these injuries may be a thing of the passed...maybe not.

2. Rodon's dead arm isn't necessarily an indicator of injury. He essentially went 2 years without throwing a significant amount of innings. Of course he had deadarm. Many healthy pitchers experience deadarm  at times during a season.

3. The Sox have the medicals on rodon. They have the best idea if the arm is injured or tired. Considering he threw 99mph in his last start I'm going with tired.

4. I do think the sox were scared of him taking the qo, but not for the obvious reasons.  Suppose Rodon Takes the qo and he has a cy young quality season that finishes strong. Then he becomes a FA and someone gives him a 5 year hundred and something deal. Now, The sox may think that not giving Rodon a qo signals that he is damaged goods when he is not. The may be hoping to get Carlos for 3 years at 48 mil. Maybe more with incentives. If they are right about him they have a steal.

5. Its a theory, maybe not the right one, but something to consider.

This may sound naive, but is it possible that Rodon/Boras had an off the record conversation with Hahn advising they would reject the QO? Meanwhile, there is at least one other Boras client the Sox are pursuing, and as a show of good will, Hahn decided not to exercise the QO on Rodon? It allows Rodon to negotiate unencumbered, still possibly returning to Chicago if the numbers are right, and maybe gets the Sox last look favors on a hotly sought after Boras FA. I suspect such horse trading has diminished in MLB over the years, but that type of stuff still goes on in the business world even at some of the highest levels. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Pants Rowland

[Sarava]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

To me, left-handed power bat and TOR starter are my 1A & 1B.  The reality is we’re one injury away from having 3/5 of our rotation composed of two guys on innings limits in Dallas & Michael (one of whom was horrible) and a guy who probably came close to getting DFAed last year in Lopez.  Even with a great offense and in a week division, I’m not sure that rotation gets you to the postseason.

Agree. And the offense wasn't always great. They get shutdown way too often for comfort - which leads to the lefthanded power bat need you mention.

And while the Tigers look to be ready to push the Sox - I'm going to approach this like the Sox likely will make the playoffs. And they need a horse to throw out there every 4 days that will shut the other team down. And I'm not thinking in May or June, I'm thinking in October. I don't think we have that guy. I'm comfortable with Giolito as a #2 in the playoffs. And Lynn may even be fine if the Sox aren't playing Houston. But we need that guy badly.

The important thing is you don't stop because you think you're already loaded. See the Dodgers acquiring Mookie Betts despite already having the best roster in baseball. Then Scherzer a year later. Keep pushing. If ever there was a time for Jerry to bust his comfort budget from across his 40ish years as White Sox owner, it's right now.

[southsider2k5]

14 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

One other interesting take, but the Sox have acquired or tried to acquire three of the six Cy Young finalists this year.  Max Scherzer would theoretically make a fourth.  At a bare minimum, I think that pursuing Wheeler & Burnes before their full fledged breakouts proves our pro scouting department is vastly improved from the dark days.

But they can't scout MLB guys...

[bmags]

29 minutes ago, Pants Rowland said:

This may sound naive, but is it possible that Rodon/Boras had an off the record conversation with Hahn advising they would reject the QO? Meanwhile, there is at least one other Boras client the Sox are pursuing, and as a show of good will, Hahn decided not to exercise the QO on Rodon? It allows Rodon to negotiate unencumbered, still possibly returning to Chicago if the numbers are right, and maybe gets the Sox last look favors on a hotly sought after Boras FA. I suspect such horse trading has diminished in MLB over the years, but that type of stuff still goes on in the business world even at some of the highest levels. 

I think this is possible the Sox think this way.

More that it feels like they would have that binary kind of mindset of "We don't actually want Rodon at 1 for 18, so you should not offer a contract you don't want" and then also hoping to spin that to Boras as a sign of goodwill. I think the sox are probably painfully transparent in FA negotiations, starting at a high number they know is high bid, refusing to budge unless they know it's not. 

But no way that Boras actually grants any sort of favor except indicating whether the sox are close to valuing a player at the same number Boras and the player are valuing themselves as. 

[Sarava]

38 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I don't think a  Verlander rumor which ended as fast as it began,  means the Sox recognize they must get a TOR starter.  TOR will most likely mean big bucks and I think Hahn will spend money but most likely in RF before TOR or 2B.  In fact, I wouldn't consider Verlander a TOR  at 40 coming off TJS. 

There's a lot of ways to skin a cat. The Sox could sign an aging TOR guy and hope he has some left in the tank still. That mitigates the risk via a shorter annual contract. If the Sox do attempt to acquire a TOR starter, this is the White Sox most likely method based on past experiences.

They could also make a trade, and really the only extremely valuable and somewhat expendable asset in the organization is Andrew Vaughn. This could be for an established veteran or for a rising young up and comer (like the Burnes rumors from a year ago).

Now as for the Verlander rumors. I was flying back from Vegas yesterday, so by the time I read the rumor, he had already signed with Houston. This could be a few things. It could be the Verlander camp throwing that out there to push Houston over the edge for a contract demand. It could be the Sox putting out phony interest, so they can say sorry we tried, like they did with Machado. Or it could be legit, and he decided to stay, and maybe they move on to the next target.,That's my guess here...I'm I don't want to view this in a cynical way.

[Balta1701]

34 minutes ago, Pants Rowland said:

This may sound naive, but is it possible that Rodon/Boras had an off the record conversation with Hahn advising they would reject the QO? Meanwhile, there is at least one other Boras client the Sox are pursuing, and as a show of good will, Hahn decided not to exercise the QO on Rodon? It allows Rodon to negotiate unencumbered, still possibly returning to Chicago if the numbers are right, and maybe gets the Sox last look favors on a hotly sought after Boras FA. I suspect such horse trading has diminished in MLB over the years, but that type of stuff still goes on in the business world even at some of the highest levels. 

I don’t think Boras would go for anything like that. 

There might be a chance that Rodon had a couple of comparable offers last year and went with the White Sox on a handshake agreement to not use the QO.

[maloney.adam]

20 minutes ago, Sarava said:

There's a lot of ways to skin a cat. The Sox could sign an aging TOR guy and hope he has some left in the tank still. That mitigates the risk via a shorter annual contract. If the Sox do attempt to acquire a TOR starter, this is the White Sox most likely method based on past experiences.

They could also make a trade, and really the only extremely valuable and somewhat expendable asset in the organization is Andrew Vaughn. This could be for an established veteran or for a rising young up and comer (like the Burnes rumors from a year ago).

Now as for the Verlander rumors. I was flying back from Vegas yesterday, so by the time I read the rumor, he had already signed with Houston. This could be a few things. It could be the Verlander camp throwing that out there to push Houston over the edge for a contract demand. It could be the Sox putting out phony interest, so they can say sorry we tried, like they did with Machado. Or it could be legit, and he decided to stay, and maybe they move on to the next target.,That's my guess here...I'm I don't want to view this in a cynical way.

Anyone with some business sense or how the FA process works should know how negotiations work. Usually when you see leaks like that it means the process is coming to an end. His agency had planted the rumor last minute to pressure the Astros. His agent obviously knew all along that his preference was to stay in Houston because they communicate.

Edited November 18, 2021 by maloney.adam

[Sarava]

40 minutes ago, Pants Rowland said:

This may sound naive, but is it possible that Rodon/Boras had an off the record conversation with Hahn advising they would reject the QO? Meanwhile, there is at least one other Boras client the Sox are pursuing, and as a show of good will, Hahn decided not to exercise the QO on Rodon? It allows Rodon to negotiate unencumbered, still possibly returning to Chicago if the numbers are right, and maybe gets the Sox last look favors on a hotly sought after Boras FA. I suspect such horse trading has diminished in MLB over the years, but that type of stuff still goes on in the business world even at some of the highest levels. 

Is a QO really that big of a deterrent now? It's no longer a first round pick, I just don't see teams passing on a good signing over a 2nd round pick.