Justin Verlander re-signs in Houston

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

The Mets received draft pick compensation in exchange for Thor leaving. There's no comparable player to Rodon that accepted the qualifying offer. Guys with legitimate health question marks or that aren't elite players turned it down. The only guy who accepted is a 34 year old 1 team lifer that plays a non premium position. It's just impossible to look at the FA landscape and think Rodon wouldn't do better than 1 for 18M, which is why I think it's fair to say not offering him the QO was a mistake. Why leave the pick/draft pool space on the table when the system can use all the help it can get?

Again, this all assumes he passes a physical.  Thor was nervous enough that he shortened his negotiating window to just a handful of weeks to ensure he had the QO as a fall-back.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The f*** happened here 

Just dreaming about my top trade deadline target that never came to fruition

[Chicago White Sox]

One other interesting take, but the Sox have acquired or tried to acquire three of the six Cy Young finalists this year.  Max Scherzer would theoretically make a fourth.  At a bare minimum, I think that pursuing Wheeler & Burnes before their full fledged breakouts proves our pro scouting department is vastly improved from the dark days.

[maxjusttyped]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

One other interesting take, but the Sox have acquired or tried to acquire three of the six Cy Young finalists this year.  Max Scherzer would theoretically make a fourth.  At a bare minimum, I think that pursuing Wheeler & Burnes before their full fledged breakouts proves our pro scouting department is vastly improved from the dark days.

Player dev also deserves a lot of credit for turning Dunning & Heuer into valuable trade chips. I know Dunning had pedigree, but they handled him well, particularly after he had TJS.

[wegner]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

I just learned from baseball reference that Robbie Ray was on the 2014 Tigers. Not that I’m implying I think the Sox are in on him. They’re more likely to sign me than Ray.

Are you able to be stretched out to be a starter, or are you more of a middle relief guy??  Looking for options just in case.

[bmags]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

One other interesting take, but the Sox have acquired or tried to acquire three of the six Cy Young finalists this year.  Max Scherzer would theoretically make a fourth.  At a bare minimum, I think that pursuing Wheeler & Burnes before their full fledged breakouts proves our pro scouting department is vastly improved from the dark days.

Jon Gray ?

[bmags]

I don’t really see a guy that trendy, even with gray I don’t really live his stuff.

Maybe go back to the kluber, paxton, games well for lightning rebottled 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, bmags said:

I don’t really see a guy that trendy, even with gray I don’t really live his stuff.

Maybe go back to the kluber, paxton, games well for lightning rebottled 

Gray seems like a guy who could pop by leaving Coors / joining a new organization, but I agree his stuff has been erratic and I admittedly don’t have a great grasp on his past injuries and how much those have played a role.  But he’s definitely the value guy I think has the best chance to provide a Lynn/Rangers type impact in this class.

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

One other interesting take, but the Sox have acquired or tried to acquire three of the six Cy Young finalists this year.  Max Scherzer would theoretically make a fourth.  At a bare minimum, I think that pursuing Wheeler & Burnes before their full fledged breakouts proves our pro scouting department is vastly improved from the dark days.

Sure, and we can make the same arguments about Tatis and Semien, even with the 30th ranked farm system.  Others will argue about the resurgences from Sheets and Burger being proof of progress.

In the end, the only thing that matters is results.

We are in danger of falling into the same trap as the Cubs with all these significant $$$ contracts for veterans on the books at the same time: we have six of these currently on payroll right now, and everyone's speculating about adding at least 1 if not 2 more this off-season.

 

The White Sox MO has always been to take advantage of these situations like we saw with Rodon for $3 million, Lynn on a "cheap" deal for last year via the trade...picking up closers like Jenks and Sergio Santos for practically nothing, then maxing out their value/return.   We would be the SF Giants coming into last year, with Gausman far and away the biggest add and then finding good fortune at the back-end with DeSclafini and Alex Wood.

Arguably, we're anywhere from the 2nd to the 8th best team in baseball right now, with #5 feeling about right (and we have no idea yet how much the Yankees and Dodgers are going to spend, for example.)   We're also sitting on a 2-3 year window currently, with massive decisions on Giolito and TA looming.

 

I don't really trust Hahn to make a youth-for-veteran/s trade, so they're really going to have to pull one out of the hat.  Other than Scherzer and maybe Gausman, not seeing many true TOR playoff starting pitchers you can 100% count on for a solid start, other than maybe Giolito (internally).   There are so many possible ways the starting rotation could go, both negatively and positively.   And counting on those three young A ball pitchers (and Vera) rebouding...or Cespedes and Colas, well, if we had $1 for every Sox prospect who hasn't panned out the last two decades, we'd all be able to eat out at Ruth's Chris for one elegant meal at least.

 

[fathom]

No one is more concerned about Giolito and Timmy’s years of control than you Caulfield.  

[SoxAce]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

No one is more concerned about Giolito and Timmy’s years of control than you Caulfield.  

Parkman begs to differ.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

No one is more concerned about Giolito and Timmy’s years of control than you Caulfield.  

Because the Twins were in the exact same situation with Buxton and Berrios.

In the end, the White Sox have enough position player talent to overcome pretty much anything the next couple of seasons, but they have also clearly fallen far short of the Astros/Royals/Cubs models in terms of having early breakthroughs in their competitive windows.

Something has to give.

Until we at least win a playoff series, we're not any better off than the Twins or Indians...except a much more "profitable" or valuable franchise due to the Chicago market.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure, and we can make the same arguments about Tatis and Semien, even with the 30th ranked farm system.  Others will argue about the resurgences from Sheets and Burger being proof of progress.

In the end, the only thing that matters is results.

We are in danger of falling into the same trap as the Cubs with all these significant $$$ contracts for veterans on the books at the same time: we have six of these currently on payroll right now, and everyone's speculating about adding at least 1 if not 2 more this off-season.

 

The White Sox MO has always been to take advantage of these situations like we saw with Rodon for $3 million, Lynn on a "cheap" deal for last year via the trade...picking up closers like Jenks and Sergio Santos for practically nothing, then maxing out their value/return.   We would be the SF Giants coming into last year, with Gausman far and away the biggest add and then finding good fortune at the back-end with DeSclafini and Alex Wood.

Arguably, we're anywhere from the 2nd to the 8th best team in baseball right now, with #5 feeling about right (and we have no idea yet how much the Yankees and Dodgers are going to spend, for example.)   We're also sitting on a 2-3 year window currently, with massive decisions on Giolito and TA looming.

 

I don't really trust Hahn to make a youth-for-veteran/s trade, so they're really going to have to pull one out of the hat.  Other than Scherzer and maybe Gausman, not seeing many true TOR playoff starting pitchers you can 100% count on for a solid start, other than maybe Giolito (internally).   There are so many possible ways the starting rotation could go, both negatively and positively.   And counting on those three young A ball pitchers (and Vera) rebouding...or Cespedes and Colas, well, if we had $1 for every Sox prospect who hasn't panned out the last two decades, we'd all be able to eat out at Ruth's Chris for one elegant meal at least.

 

What in the world are you ranting about?  The Sox traded Dane fucking Dunning for an AL Cy Young finalist.  They offered an NL Cy Young finalist the largest contract in free agency.  They aggressively pursued and were supposedly close to acquiring the NL Cy Young winner for Nick Madrigal, Codi Heuer, and a couple minor leaguers.  I get some of those moves were theoretical, but they’re proof they’re targeting the right players.

And what are all these veteran contracts you are so worried about?  Kimbrel will be moved this offseason.  Abreu & Keuchel are free agents after the year.  Grandal only has two years left.  Lynn just came in 3rd place in the AL Cy Young race and only has two guaranteed years left.  I guess Hendriks still has three years left, but not really worried about this at the moment.  You’re literally creating an issue that doesn’t actually exist.

And no idea what the A Ball pitchers have to do with anything?  If they all fail, it may limit our window, but right now no one should care about anything behind 2024.  Let’s focus on winning a god damn World Series over the next three years and worry about extending the window later.

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What in the world are you ranting about?  The Sox traded Dane fucking Dunning for an AL Cy Young finalist.  They offered an NL Cy Young finalist the largest contract in free agency.  They aggressively pursued and were supposedly close to acquiring the NL Cy Young winner for Nick Madrigal, Codi Heuer, and a couple minor leaguers.  I get some of those moves were theoretical, but they’re proof they’re targeting the right players.

And what are all these veteran contracts you are so worried about?  Kimbrel will be moved this offseason.  Abreu & Keuchel are free agents after the year.  Grandal only has two years left.  Lynn just came in 3rd place in the AL Cy Young race and only has two guaranteed years left.  I guess Hendriks still has three years left, but not really worried about this at the moment.  You’re literally creating an issue that doesn’t actually exist.

And no idea what the A Ball pitchers have to do with anything?  If they all fail, it may limit our window, but right now no one should care about anything behind 2024.  Let’s focus on winning a god damn World Series over the next three years and worry about extending the window later.

The biggest concern is that Lynn isn't anything resembling that pitcher moving forward for $38 million...we still have Keuchel/Kimbrel on the books, and it's going to be impossible to move on from Abreu, as we've created a logjam at the position of most depth in the entire organization.   Then we have Grandal's health, which is going to be pushed to the limit without a capable back-up catcher in sight.

 

And no White Sox fan is going to write on their tombstone....well, we ALMOST THEORETICALLY were able to acquire Burnes, Wheeler, Machado, Tanaka, etc.

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by caulfield12

[The Beast]

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by The Beast

[hi8is]

38 minutes ago, The Beast said:

 

Oh God no.

[fathom]

Just now, hi8is said:

Oh God no.

It’s fake

[caulfield12]

40 minutes ago, The Beast said:

 

Someone has a wicked sense of humor scaring White Sox fans to death...good thing we didn't get a signature on that $100 million extension.

[maloney.adam]

No shit Black Eyed Bruce. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by maloney.adam

[wegner]

[SCCWS]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

The biggest concern is that Lynn isn't anything resembling that pitcher moving forward for $38 million...we still have Keuchel/Kimbrel on the books, and it's going to be impossible to move on from Abreu, as we've created a logjam at the position of most depth in the entire organization.   Then we have Grandal's health, which is going to be pushed to the limit without a capable back-up catcher in sight.

 

And no White Sox fan is going to write on their tombstone....well, we ALMOST THEORETICALLY were able to acquire Burnes, Wheeler, Machado, Tanaka, etc.

 

You have the glass half full and we haven't even made any moves yet. Hahn will move Kimbrel unless he has a resurrection.  There is a back-up catcher in sight but this early you need binoculars to see him. Check back in January and he will be there. 

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

 

Go get 'em, Rick Hahn. Premium talent. I think I can, I think I can...

[Buehrle>Wood]

38 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

No shit Black Eyed Bruce. 

Thatsthejoke?

[maloney.adam]

31 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Thatsthejoke?

Don’t mess with Bruce. He had a bad day because his colleagues were giving him shit for re-tweeting Not Bob Nightengale’s tweet. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by maloney.adam

[kleedawg]

Most people interpret the sox not giving Rodon a QO as evidence that they were afraid he would take it and that he is damaged goods. This is completely logically and possibly correct. However there is another possible interpretation. Consider the following:

1. I believe Rodon has made a significant mechanics change. Earlier in injury plagued career He was more upright and had to forcefully whip his arm to get velocity. This put strain on on the smaller muscles and ligaments which can lead to injury. Now he drives more with his legs which naturally whips his arm. He essentially takes much of the strain off his by pitching this way and he increase power as evidenced by the 100mph he has thrown this year. this could mean that some of these injuries may be a thing of the passed...maybe not.

2. Rodon's dead arm isn't necessarily an indicator of injury. He essentially went 2 years without throwing a significant amount of innings. Of course he had deadarm. Many healthy pitchers experience deadarm  at times during a season.

3. The Sox have the medicals on rodon. They have the best idea if the arm is injured or tired. Considering he threw 99mph in his last start I'm going with tired.

4. I do think the sox were scared of him taking the qo, but not for the obvious reasons.  Suppose Rodon Takes the qo and he has a cy young quality season that finishes strong. Then he becomes a FA and someone gives him a 5 year hundred and something deal. Now, The sox may think that not giving Rodon a qo signals that he is damaged goods when he is not. The may be hoping to get Carlos for 3 years at 48 mil. Maybe more with incentives. If they are right about him they have a steal.

5. Its a theory, maybe not the right one, but something to consider.