Would you rather trade Eloy or Vaughn?

[ron883]

Purely hypothetical. There's an obvious roster crunch with the fringe OF/DH/1st base players. The team also needs to be more left handed. Both of these guys can play LF. If the team was to trade one of these guys, which would you prefer? 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Vaughn since there's a lot better chance of Eloy becoming a great to elite hitter. We can say that because we've seen it. Vaughn we haven't seen anything.

Of course the real answer is neither when their values are both at low points.

[ron883]

5 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Vaughn since there's a lot better chance of Eloy becoming a great to elite hitter. We can say that because we've seen it. Vaughn we haven't seen anything.

Of course the real answer is neither when their values are both at low points.

I don't think Vaughn's value is at a low point. He held his own despite skipping AA and AAA. He also proved he can play LF. 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Vaughn since there's a lot better chance of Eloy becoming a great to elite hitter. We can say that because we've seen it. Vaughn we haven't seen anything.

Of course the real answer is neither when their values are both at low points.

Vaugh’s value may be low relative to a proven major leaguer, but I bet most teams still view him the same as when he was a consensus top 20 prospect.  And while I think his value will skyrocket within the next 12 months, I do think you’d get better bang for you buck right now by dealing Vaughn.  For example, the Pirates are going to prefer the cheaper asset in Vaughn if you were to discuss a Reynolds trade, same for the Diamondbacks for a Marte trade.  And Eloy’s offensive ceiling is just insane.  We saw a glimpse of it in 2020 when he had some of the best quality of contact in baseball.  Give another four months to recover and a full spring training to prepare and he could be our best hitter next year.  Ideally we find a way to keep both, but gun to head I’m definitely moving Vaughn over Eloy.

[SoxSteve]

Jesus not this shit again. Please no

[Sarava]

Even if one isn't a fan of Eloy, and I am - selling low on him right now would be horrible asset management.

[Chimpton]

Eloy is not as bad as many on here think, yes he has had injuries and yes his fielding is below average, and that has stalled his development but his upside with the bat is too good to be trading away right now. If he has another season like last season then this needs revisiting even if it means getting less back in return.

Vaughn equally has too much potential to be trading him away unless it is a very favourable trade, but even then I wouldn't. Burger and Sheets on the other hand could be trade chips but would not get a great deal, however a swap for a similar prospect/young player in a position we need cover may be worthwhile.

[bmags]

While I'm fine discussing any player on this roster for access to some truly elite talent, what I'd hope does not happen is the sox deciding Vaughn is a trade chip and shop him as a centerpiece until they find the best deal. Though I think there is zero chance Pirates sell on Reynolds, he certainly fits the bill.

But the things that may seem like big issues with the Sox (too right handed) can pale in comparison to issues that could arise (can't hit at all) and at this point there is no top 5 pick arriving to replace and no clear alternative in sight unless you are a big Burger believer.

I really just don't think "too much" of something is an issue, and when you try to balance the cupboards too cutely, you can end up with not enough of either.  

Say we end up with this scenario:

- Vaughn is crushing the ball but can't find at bats, while Eloy struggles. If we traded vaughn, what we'd have is just a weaker Eloy.

- Eloy crushes it but Vaughn still just an avg bat. If we didn't trade vaughn, we may have lost on some added value, but have a great left fielder and we don't care.

I'd much rather deal with #2. 

Let's just make sure the line in the sand we draw for Vaughn is for a type of player that is difficult to acquire, and not just one that will seem helpful to balancing us in 2022.

[caulfield12]

7 hours ago, ron883 said:

Purely hypothetical. There's an obvious roster crunch with the fringe OF/DH/1st base players. The team also needs to be more left handed. Both of these guys can play LF. If the team was to trade one of these guys, which would you prefer? 

At least you didn’t suggest trading Abreu to open up 1B for Vaughn. Baby steps.

[VAfan]

NEITHER is the right answer.  

As mentioned above, until Roberts exploded in the second half to show what he can actually do, I would have ranked Eloy as the Sox' best hitter.  He still has the upside to do that as early as this year. 

Vaughn, meanwhile, became a more valuable piece by showing he could handle OF duties on LF or RF.  Not a plus defender, but able to hold his own.  He also crushed lefties, and with Sheets emergence, can serve as a platoon partner.  That may not get him enough ABs, but you can still phase him in against righties by playing him in the field some of the time.  Until he shows he can rake against righties, his trade value for a team who wants to play him full time will be suppressed.  

Abreu is on the last year of his new deal.  He'll likely be extended again, but at some point, the Sox will need a replacement at 1B.  

[South Side Hit Men]

Outside of Robert, there is no player I would consider untouchable on the Sox. That said, it seems as though people are vastly underselling Vaughn's worth to the team today and tomorrow.

I would only consider trading either Eloy or Vaughn for a package that included outstanding cost controlled talent which could help the Sox win now and the next few years, the same worth that Eloy and Vaughn currently provide the Sox. with the primary benefit clearing the glut of 1B/DH and RHHs Hahn has accumulated.

The reason I selected Eloy for the poll is based on the fact the return package would be far greater, and Vaughn's contract status is much more beneficial over the next five years. He is my first choice if trading the primary young elite core (Robert, Moncada, Kopech, Vaughn).

[Chicago White Sox]

I don’t think anyone wants to trade Eloy or Vaughn for the sake of trading them.  It’s only under the premise the Sox want to maximize their chance of winning a championship the next few years and assume there will be some sort of budgetary constraints.  At this point it’s beating the dead horse, but we are way too right-handed.  Up until this point it made sense to amass as much talent as possible, but now we’re in the stage where we need to optimize the roster to give us the best chance in the postseason.  

There are a lot ways to get more balance in the lineup.  From a free agency standpoint, we could just go sign Michael Conforto which would allow us to stick with a combo of Eloy & Vaughn at DH & LF.  That makes Sheets expandable, but I don’t seem him being able to deliver much in return if you need to trade for a SP or 2B.  Regardless, if we can address those spots and not require a major trade to do so, then this is the ideal solution.

Another free agent route is the Harold proposal, which is to sign Schwarber to be your primary DH and then trade Vaughn is a package for a stud RF.  As numerous posters here have pointed out, the DH market is one Jerry is typically willing to play big in and this may be a more realistic path forward if the Conforto market gets out of control.  Again, teams with impact RFs to trade are more likely going to rebuilding like the Pirates and will almost certainly prefer Vaughn who is far cheaper and can be sent down and recoup an extra year of control.

On the trade front, you could also acquire a left-handed or switch hitting 2B.  Ketel Marte would be a tremendous piece for us and is under a very reasonable contract the next three years, which makes it easier to allocate funds elsewhere.  Again, a team like the DBacks will likely prefer Vaughn to Eloy for the reasons stated above.  Another theoretical concept I’ve brought up is doing a unproven prospect for prospect trade, with Gavin Lux being my main proposal.  This assumes some risk with an unproven player, but allows to maintain a pre-arb player at a greater area of need.

To me, the only way I think trading Eloy could theoretically work if you’re trading him to a contender for pitching.  Like I’m sure the Marlins would have a ton of interest in him, but who here is willing to move five years of Eloy for three years of Pablo Lopez?  Who else has excess controllable pitching that has a need at LF or DH?  I’d wager most contenders are looking to add starting pitching and not subtract right now.

TLDR - If moving one of the two is required to optimize the roster, it’s much more likely and logical to move Vaughn.  If not, obviously keep both and let them build up their value.

[Leonard Zelig]

No. 

[poppysox]

49 minutes ago, VAfan said:

NEITHER is the right answer.  

As mentioned above, until Roberts exploded in the second half to show what he can actually do, I would have ranked Eloy as the Sox' best hitter.  He still has the upside to do that as early as this year. 

Vaughn, meanwhile, became a more valuable piece by showing he could handle OF duties on LF or RF.  Not a plus defender, but able to hold his own.  He also crushed lefties, and with Sheets emergence, can serve as a platoon partner.  That may not get him enough ABs, but you can still phase him in against righties by playing him in the field some of the time.  Until he shows he can rake against righties, his trade value for a team who wants to play him full time will be suppressed.  

Abreu is on the last year of his new deal.  He'll likely be extended again, but at some point, the Sox will need a replacement at 1B.  

Neither is my vote as well.  If you can trade Babe Ruth you can trade anyone...but short of something unexpected happening...neither would bring back enough bounty IMO.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

Neither is my vote as well.  If you can trade Babe Ruth you can trade anyone...but short of something unexpected happening...neither would bring back enough bounty IMO.

You wouldn’t trade Vaughn and other pieces for Ketel Marte?

[CentralChamps21]

I would not trade either one just for the sake of trading them, but as I've noted before, the current roster has a major redundancy in the right-handed DH category with Abreu/Vaughn/Eloy. There has to be some serious exploration as to whether Vaughn or Eloy can be part of a package that bring back a big time 2B, OF, or SP.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I honestly hate this idea.

[poppysox]

20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You wouldn’t trade Vaughn and other pieces for Ketel Marte?

Yes, I would trade either guy for an unrealistic haul.  Would they take Vaugh for Marte?  I think not.  I stated that anyone can be traded but I wouldn't trade either guy for what I anticipate their current value would be.  I'd trade both guys for Ohtani just to clarify my position.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Yes, I would trade either guy for an unrealistic haul.  Would they take Vaugh for Marte?  I think not.  I stated that anyone can be traded but I wouldn't trade either guy for what I anticipate their current value would be.  I'd trade both guys for Ohtani just to clarify my position.

Straight up?  No, but I think we could potentially get there with a couple more pieces.

[southsider2k5]

I would RATHER spend money in FA and keep our quality depth.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I would RATHER spend money in FA and keep our quality depth.

Yes please. Eloy Vaughn timeshare in LF and DH, get left handed at RF and 2B through free agency. Sheets in the minors as depth.

[ChiSox59]

NEITHER.  Neither should be traded this offseason. Can always revisit in the future - and the benefit to that is that both will probably be more valuable via trade in a year than they are right now.  However, I don't want to trade either as both are cornerstones of this offensive moving forward - Eloy as DH and Vaughn as LF.  Vaughn can transition to 1B when father time catches Jose, whenever that may be.  

[ChiSox59]

29 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yes please. Eloy Vaughn timeshare in LF and DH, get left handed at RF and 2B through free agency. Sheets in the minors as depth.

Such an easy and clear solution.  

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Such an easy and clear solution.  

Injuries are inevitable it seems (unfortunately). Sheets can still see a decent amount of time.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Bob Sacamano

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Injuries are inevitable it seems (unfortunately). Sheets can still see a decent amount of time.

I am completely unconcerned about finding at bats for Sheets.  He'll get his opportunities.  Moving Vaughn or Eloy to make room for everyday at bats for Gavin Sheets would go down as a historic mistake.