Kendall Graveman agrees to deal w/Sox 3/$24

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Reading your posts should be an activity earned, not given. ?

Some say feel free to hit that like and subscribe button, I say... feel free to hit that block button.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, wsd said:

They just won 93 games and would have been on a bee line for 100 if Robert, Eloy, Madrigal, etc. didn't get hurt. They're going to bolster that same team this winter and have the largest payroll in team history by like $50MM+. You didn't mention Hendriks in here and it's only like 3 weeks into the offseason. Let it play out. If they patch work the team together again, then by all means, raise hell. I for sure will be.

But JR, KW, RH and everyone underneath them know exactly what the need and JR/TLR know their biological clocks are ticking. Again, trust the process. I think we're gonna be very happy with the offseason and that come march, the White Sox will be a better team, maybe much better, than they were when they got destroyed by Houston in early October 

They won 93 games because of exactly what I laid out above; they acquired good assets during the rebuild. There is no argument from me there. Hahn, in general, hit a home run on all of those trades and acquisitions (Robert). The rest of it though? Just whatever...

and I love Hendriks, but the guy is a closer. He's the last piece to the puzzle, and honestly the Sox are throwing huge money at relievers because they whiffed on their 1st round RP draft pick, and whiffed on development of their countless young guys coming up as RP's.

I'm as excited as anyone, but my goodness if the water carrying for this ownership group isn't flat out exhausting every single off-season. We've heard this nonsense about the Sox playing with the big boys for three damn years now and the Rays are now lapping them in salary commitments to a single player. The Sox will earn the benefit of the doubt and the belief in these talking-head narratives that "we're gonna be happy and this off-season is different" when they actually prove that to fans ONE time in the entire existence of the organization.

[hi8is]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

feel free to hit that block button.

But you’re so cute, it’d be impossible to do that.

[maloney.adam]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Some say feel free to hit that like and subscribe button, I say... feel free to hit that block button.

You can block me...Go ahead do it. You have my permission.

[ron883]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They won 93 games because of exactly what I laid out above; they acquired good assets during the rebuild. There is no argument from me there. Hahn, in general, hit a home run on all of those trades and acquisitions (Robert). The rest of it though? Just whatever...

and I love Hendriks, but the guy is a closer. He's the last piece to the puzzle, and honestly the Sox are throwing huge money at relievers because they whiffed on their 1st round RP draft pick, and whiffed on development of their countless young guys coming up as RP's.

I'm as excited as anyone, but my goodness if the water carrying for this ownership group isn't flat out exhausting every single off-season. We've heard this nonsense about the Sox playing with the big boys for three damn years now and the Rays are now lapping them in salary commitments to a single player. The Sox will earn the benefit of the doubt and the belief in these talking-head narratives that "we're gonna be happy and this off-season is different" when they actually prove that to fans ONE time in the entire existence of the organization.

Nobody carried water for Hahn more than you did in the past. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

You can block me...Go ahead do it. You have my permission.

I don't block anyone or complain about anyone or any posts to moderators. This is a forum that I choose to visit. Everyone's opinion provides to the level of entertainment received by stopping in here. Besides, if I miss one of your tweets as Steve Cishek on twitter I know I can come here and see it in your posts!

[hi8is]

4 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

You can block me...Go ahead do it. You have my permission.

I’m sorry my idiotic boredom started this line of nonsense.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, ron883 said:

Nobody carried water for Hahn more than you did in the past. 

Hahn is still my guy. I do my best to absolve a lot of blame that is likely his by placing it onto the shoulders of others.

[Texsox]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Hahn is still my guy. I do my best to absolve a lot of blame that is likely his by placing it onto the shoulders of others.

I believe it's a group effort. I like the front office. They've had some hits and some misses. So I'll keep some of the blame on his shoulders as well as some of them praise. Although it's easier to just blame JR for everything bad or say it's all bad and hate them all.

[wsd]

25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They won 93 games because of exactly what I laid out above; they acquired good assets during the rebuild. There is no argument from me there. Hahn, in general, hit a home run on all of those trades and acquisitions (Robert). The rest of it though? Just whatever...

and I love Hendriks, but the guy is a closer. He's the last piece to the puzzle, and honestly the Sox are throwing huge money at relievers because they whiffed on their 1st round RP draft pick, and whiffed on development of their countless young guys coming up as RP's.

I'm as excited as anyone, but my goodness if the water carrying for this ownership group isn't flat out exhausting every single off-season. We've heard this nonsense about the Sox playing with the big boys for three damn years now and the Rays are now lapping them in salary commitments to a single player. The Sox will earn the benefit of the doubt and the belief in these talking-head narratives that "we're gonna be happy and this off-season is different" when they actually prove that to fans ONE time in the entire existence of the organization.

You can google my Twitter handle + Jerry Reinsdorf and see how much I’ve roasted JR over the last decade or so. It’s plenty. I call it as I see it just like you do. 
 

And I think you’re wrong. You’re looking at the Graveman signing incorrectly and retrospectively. The White Sox signed him because they feel like they know how to take his 2021 success and build off it. They don’t feel like they’re “buying high” and hoping for the best. They see a pitcher with high leverage, shut down “shit” that went untapped until 2021 and think they can tap into it even more. Everyone I talked to “in the business” thinks it was a great signing for the Sox. That doesn’t mean it will be, but as it sits now, there’s not a whole lot to nitpick about this move. 

That is unless, like I said, they piece mail the rest of the offseason. I’ve been told they won’t but if they do we all have a right to burn it down. Just gotta let the rest of the offseason work itself out 

[Texsox]

23 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

We've heard this nonsense about the Sox playing with the big boys for three damn years now and the Rays are now lapping them in salary commitments to a single player.

I'm not disagreeing with most of your post. However, I'm not certain locking in that much money, over that long of a time, is a good idea. Starting with how did the Rangers do with ARod? So the team drops $200 mil on (insert current player here) tomorrow, will that really make a difference? 

[maxjusttyped]

22 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I'm not disagreeing with most of your post. However, I'm not certain locking in that much money, over that long of a time, is a good idea. Starting with how did the Rangers do with ARod? So the team drops $200 mil on (insert current player here) tomorrow, will that really make a difference? 

The White Sox already have a ~90+ win core in place and no long-term bad money on their books. When ARod signed with the Rangers they were one of the least talented rosters in baseball. I think it's safe to say Bryce Harper would have made a pretty significant difference on the Sox over the last 3 years and going forward into the future. I'm not saying this is necessarily the year to dive into the high end free agents (Seager + Correa in particular) but I think if you're signing HOF caliber players in the prime of their careers, especially while in the middle of a competitive window, that's going to be a good idea more times than not.

People will often cite how a mega deal looks at the end, but it also glosses over the fact these players are still way underpaid from a $/WAR perspective during the early and middle parts of these deals.

[Texsox]

It's a huge swing on one player. If it misses you are crippled for a few years. 

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Texsox said:

It's a huge swing on one player. If it misses you are crippled for a few years. 

At $8m a year?  It's not 2003 anymore. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I'm not disagreeing with most of your post. However, I'm not certain locking in that much money, over that long of a time, is a good idea. Starting with how did the Rangers do with ARod? So the team drops $200 mil on (insert current player here) tomorrow, will that really make a difference? 

Look at the Rangers’ roster back then and how far they were from competing.

Timing.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/52900-was-mark-teixeiras-trade-to-atlanta-the-worst-trade-in-braves-history
Arguably, this was THE trade that kick started everything for their WS run, just like we dealt three assets in their prime for a slew of top prospects that mostly panned out.

Edited November 24, 2021 by caulfield12

[wsd]

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Look at the Rangers’ roster back then and how far they were from competing.

Timing.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/52900-was-mark-teixeiras-trade-to-atlanta-the-worst-trade-in-braves-history
Arguably, this was THE trade that kick started everything for their WS run, just like we dealt three assets in their prime for a slew of top prospects that mostly panned out.

Exactly! I don't think anyone has any way to confirm this, but I think the top 3 decision makers for the org all knew exactly when to strike on a high impact mega deal. Maybe that's me being too trusthwory and giving them the benefit of doubt (one last time), but with how good we know this core of Yo, Eloy, Robert, Gio, TA, Kopech, Cease, etc. not just could be, but already is, I think all of them are looking at each other and saying, "yup, it's fucking go time". Anyone who follows this team knows they're SO close to being the very best team in baseball and that there are only a few pieces needed, and nobody knows that more than Rick Hahn, Kenny Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf. 

Reinsdorf is the only one that matters though. I have bitched and moaned about Reinsdorf for years. But he's a great businessman and great businessmen are insanely competitive. He knows he's old AF and that he has the best core possible to give it a few more runs at his 8th championship. 

I could be WAY wrong here and Graveman could be their biggest signing and we're all furious come march. If that's the case then I will admit defeat and admit that I shouldn't have given Reinsdorf the benefit of the doubt. Again, it's all up to him. I don't think that will be the case though. I think we'll be looking back at this convo and saying, "wow we had a great offseason and Graveman was just the start of it. We really could win the World Series" 

Just my $0.02

 

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

At $8m a year?  It's not 2003 anymore. 

I was speaking generally about that list. At $8 mil, sure a 20 year contract would move the team up. 

[tray]

3 hours ago, wsd said:

 White Sox signed him because they feel like they know how to take his 2021 success and build off it. They don’t feel like they’re “buying high” and hoping for the best. They see a pitcher with high leverage, shut down “shit

Same analysis used by the same people when they traded Madrigal and Heuer  for a guy with "shutdown sh1t."

When will they ever learn, when will they  e----ver-r  learn?

[Chicago White Sox]

34 minutes ago, tray said:

Same analysis used by the same people when they traded Madrigal and Heuer  for a guy with "shutdown sh1t."

When will they ever learn, when will they  e----ver-r  learn?

Yeah, they really blew that evaluation on Lynn too.  And pursuing Wheeler & Burnes was also super dumb cause those guys suck.  Probably taking too much advice from Steve Stone?  Amirite tray?  I mean, it’s pretty obvious Kimbrel was going to collapse well before we acquired him.  We should have known the second those stupid Dodgers & Rays’ organizations joined the mix that the dude was a ticking time bomb.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, wsd said:

Exactly! I don't think anyone has any way to confirm this, but I think the top 3 decision makers for the org all knew exactly when to strike on a high impact mega deal. Maybe that's me being too trusthwory and giving them the benefit of doubt (one last time), but with how good we know this core of Yo, Eloy, Robert, Gio, TA, Kopech, Cease, etc. not just could be, but already is, I think all of them are looking at each other and saying, "yup, it's fucking go time". Anyone who follows this team knows they're SO close to being the very best team in baseball and that there are only a few pieces needed, and nobody knows that more than Rick Hahn, Kenny Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf. 

Reinsdorf is the only one that matters though. I have bitched and moaned about Reinsdorf for years. But he's a great businessman and great businessmen are insanely competitive. He knows he's old AF and that he has the best core possible to give it a few more runs at his 8th championship. 

I could be WAY wrong here and Graveman could be their biggest signing and we're all furious come march. If that's the case then I will admit defeat and admit that I shouldn't have given Reinsdorf the benefit of the doubt. Again, it's all up to him. I don't think that will be the case though. I think we'll be looking back at this convo and saying, "wow we had a great offseason and Graveman was just the start of it. We really could win the World Series" 

Just my $0.02

 

The most important year of the window is 2027, because after that season, we would/could lose Luis Robert to an absolutely gargantuan FA deal.

For the last year or so, I believed that Giolito and Tim Anderson were the keys to keeping the window going, but the Wander Franco situation reminded me about the true value of a superstar to a franchise.

Of course, we can look at the Angels, who haven't surrounded their position stars with nearly enough pitching, they arguably have three superstars and still can't make the post-season.

 

I do question whether they have the cojones to offer that Tatis/Franco type of money, or whether they're just content to let things play out through 2027, then go into another rebuilding period/cycle yet again.  There's obviously a ton of risk (still) around Robert, mostly on the health side...but if he does put up an MVP season in the next year or two, that window to get anything approaching a "bargain" (from the White Sox perspective) will be LONG gone.

It's certainly possible with the direction that the Tigers are going now that they threaten the White Sox sooner rather than later, but we have enough cushion with Moncada, Jimenez, Kopech, Cease and Vaughn to overcome that for at least the next two seasons.

Then we face our first crossroads, after the 2023 and 2024 seasons.

The Royals' run fell apart pretty quickly (injuries/aging/non-performance, signing Gordon), the Cubs faded away but were still competitive and the Astros have been the only team other than the Dodgers and the Red Sox to a much lesser extent to sustain excellence over a prolonged period of time.  Then the Rays are right there in that the top of the next tier of organizations.

Edited November 25, 2021 by caulfield12

[FoxForce2]

I only hope that this signing doesn't rule out going after Tepera. IMO - the stronger the pen, the stronger the staff. But I thought the pen was a strength coming into the 2021 season - the first half proved, in great part, otherwise. So what do I know?

[caulfield12]

24 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

I only hope that this signing doesn't rule out going after Tepera. IMO - the stronger the pen, the stronger the staff. But I thought the pen was a strength coming into the 2021 season - the first half proved, in great part, otherwise. So what do I know?

Not sure you can afford to pay two "non-closers" in Tepera and Graveman the same the Dodgers with a much higher payroll are going to pay Treinen ($8 million) to close next year...at least, that's the official plan, until things change and they bring in a bigger name like Iglesias or Kimbrel.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah, they really blew that evaluation on Lynn too.  And pursuing Wheeler & Burnes was also super dumb cause those guys suck.  Probably taking too much advice from Steve Stone?  Amirite tray?  I mean, it’s pretty obvious Kimbrel was going to collapse well before we acquired him.  We should have known the second those stupid Dodgers & Rays’ organizations joined the mix that the dude was a ticking time bomb.

?

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

?

But we also pursued Alex Gordon, that would have been a complete disaster.

And curious why the pursuits of Machado and Harper and even Tanaka are not being included....the problem is that this kind of thinking is like Cubs' fans with their "mythical attendance championships" putdowns to Sox fans.

In the end, GM's and managers are graded on W/L percentage and results in the post-season.

I mean, pretty much every move that Hahn and KW made, starting from Dunn in 2011 through Robertson/LaRoche/Cabrera, 2016 and into the rebuild...you can find legit reasons why the move/s looked good on paper.  We have witnessed many "won the off-season" articles.  Interestingly, we didn't get that much hype last off-season, because the Lynn and Rodon were not really headline grabbers.

 

But I'm not sure in a results-oriented business why coming up 2nd or having a seat at the table is supposed to be good enough.

I mean, I guess we're conditioned to expect less as White Sox fans?

 

Let's imagine this was a Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox board...would anyone be applauding their GM's for coming up short or targeting the right players, but not having the farm system to execute a trade?   We can say the same thing for NOT being able to trade for Miguel Cabrera back in the day...because the Tigers' package (at the time) was more enticing.

Heck, even the Padres/Preller were crucified for their trade deadline moves and non-moves...it cost another manager his job and the GM will be next if they come up short again in 2022.

 

What do we get, so far?  A change in the strength and conditioning coach, pretty much that's it.

 

 

[tray]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah, they really blew that evaluation on Lynn too.  And pursuing Wheeler & Burnes was also super dumb cause those guys suck.  Probably taking too much advice from Steve Stone?  Amirite tray?  We should have known the second those stupid Dodgers & Rays’ organizations joined the mix that the dude was a ticking time bomb.

I never said "they blew that evaluation on Lynn" but they did blow it on Kimbrel champ.

" I mean, it’s pretty obvious Kimbrel was going to collapse well before we acquired him. "

LOL. Actually some predicted his decline.

The Story Behind Craig Kimbrel's Sudden and Bizarre Decline

You sound angry. Amirite? Are you angry?