Robbie Ray to the Mariners, 5 years $115 million

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Why not? Are the White Sox deducting the funds directly from your bank account? That sounds awful.

Because Robby Ray is highly unlikely to replicate his 2021 performance even once in his next 5 seasons.  That $115M can be invested in a much better fashion.  Like towards Conforto, and 2B and a lesser SP that won't hamstring the team for the next half decade.

I am also of the belief that the Sox SP is pretty damn good as is and I don't think we need to overpay for a SP in FA. 

[Jerry McNertney]

Maybe, the White Sox can sign Jeff Samardzija.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Because Robby Ray is highly unlikely to replicate his 2021 performance even once in his next 5 seasons.  That $115M can be invested in a much better fashion.  Like towards Conforto, and 2B and a lesser SP that won't hamstring the team for the next half decade.

I am also of the belief that the Sox SP is pretty damn good as is and I don't think we need to overpay for a SP in FA. 

The White Sox have Dallas Keuchel in the rotation, and they're relying on a guy who hasn't thrown more than 69 innings in a year since 2018. 

The White Sox never reallocate the funds they chose not to spend on high end talent on anything worth a damn. Why fans insist on saying... I'd rather the Sox reallocate the big money to smaller fish on shorter deals, despite example after example of failure doing that exact thing is truly magical. 

Here's an idea, the Sox could get Conforto AND Ray. 

"Hamstring" the team. lol The Sox are about as profitable as a professional sports franchise can be for the owner. I honestly cannot believe fans push these absurd narratives. The ownership is never actually hamstrung. They could afford to sign both with ease. Stop feeding into Jerry's complete nonsense. 

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jerry being cheap does not mean fans should preach his message as the "right way" to operate a team. That basically plays into the narrative this organization has sold it's fans forever. Look at how many people on this board throw parties when top FA's sign with other teams because it's a "bad deal" or "overpay." In what world do fans want ownership to make more money so they can watch lesser talent? It's amazing to see time and time again.

Also, Robbie Ray's issue was never stuff, it was command. Finding command is very much something that can maintain itself. If his command holds, his stuff is dynamite and always has been.

Fans and the media bought for years how JR just broke even every year. It was genius on his part, and it worked.  You probably remember the every dollar that comes in goes out line. Then he signed Dunn and re-signed AJP, and the media asked him where did you come up with the money? You save some here, you save some there was the response exposing his lie. He doesn't like to gamble with his money even though he will never need most he has in his checking account. And it probably isn't going to change. That said, there are still some good players available. I'm not too concerned yet.

Just remember the White Sox wouldn't give Mark Buehrle anywhere near the 4 year $56 million contract he got with the Marlins. He was willing to take less. That was as safe as it gets. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Dick Allen

[wegner]

Just now, Jerry McNertney said:

Maybe, the White Sox can sign Jeff Samardzija.

[TheTruth05]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because Robby Ray is highly unlikely to replicate his 2021 performance even once in his next 5 seasons.  That $115M can be invested in a much better fashion.  Like towards Conforto, and 2B and a lesser SP that won't hamstring the team for the next half decade.

I am also of the belief that the Sox SP is pretty damn good as is and I don't think we need to overpay for a SP in FA. 

Max is really the only guy I wish the Sox would have blown their wad for. I do understand that was a .001% chance of happening but if there was someone you want in a Game 7 it woulda been him. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The White Sox have Dallas Keuchel in the rotation, and they're relying on a guy who hasn't thrown more than 69 innings in a year since 2018. 

The White Sox never reallocate the funds they chose not to spend on high end talent on anything worth a damn. Why fans insist on saying... I'd rather the Sox reallocate the big money to smaller fish on shorter deals, despite example after example of failure doing that exact thing is truly magical. 

Here's an idea, the Sox could get Conforto AND Ray. 

"Hamstring" the team. lol The Sox are about as profitable as a professional sports franchise can be for the owner. I honestly cannot believe fans push these absurd narratives. The ownership is never actually hamstrung. They could afford to sign both with ease. Stop feeding into Jerry's complete nonsense. 

You continue not to get this.  No one is arguing that Reinsdorf shouldn’t spend more (he should), we’re discussing what we’d like to see happen under realistic parameters.  I get it sucks that Jerry owns the team, but your whining isn’t going to change a thing.  I know this because I’ve bitched & moaned in the past like crazy and the dude still owns the team.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You continue not to get this.  No one is arguing that Reinsdorf shouldn’t spend more (he should), we’re discussing what we’d like to see happen under realistic parameters.  I get it sucks that Jerry owns the team, but your whining isn’t going to change a thing.  I know this because I’ve bitched & moaned in the past like crazy and the dude still owns the team.

Every fan who says "I'm glad we didn't get that guy, he's an overpay" is arguing exactly that which happens after every big signing on this board and twitter and beyond. Everyone who pushes the narrative that these guys are overpaid and they wouldn't give them those contracts is doing exactly that. They are promoting the idea that it's better for Jerry to keep the money than it is for him to give it to an "overpaid" player. 

Sox fans are the only fanbase I've ever seen that celebrates not spending money. They care more about being "smart" and fiscally responsible than having better players and winning more games. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The White Sox have Dallas Keuchel in the rotation, and they're relying on a guy who hasn't thrown more than 69 innings in a year since 2018. 

The White Sox never reallocate the funds they chose not to spend on high end talent on anything worth a damn. Why fans insist on saying... I'd rather the Sox reallocate the big money to smaller fish on shorter deals, despite example after example of failure doing that exact thing is truly magical. 

Here's an idea, the Sox could get Conforto AND Ray. 

"Hamstring" the team. lol The Sox are about as profitable as a professional sports franchise can be for the owner. I honestly cannot believe fans push these absurd narratives. The ownership is never actually hamstrung. They could afford to sign both with ease. Stop feeding into Jerry's complete nonsense. 

Ok, dude.  The Sox aren't suddenly operating with a $250M annual payroll moving forward.  I know that; most know that.  That doesn't mean I want to line Jr's pockets with cash, it means I live in reality.  We are fans of a middle market team, not the Yankees, or Dodgers or Mets, or other teams that can sign a decent pitcher coming off a career year to a $115M deal.  Let's not forget the Sox biggest FA expenditures in franchise history was 4/$73M to Grandal.  The Sox weren't about to smash that for Robby fuckin' Ray. 

Yes, Dallas Kuechel is our 5.  That is fine.  Yes, Kopech is unlikely to throw more than 150 innings.  The Sox will sign a SP and likely some milb guys.  We have ReyLo and a few guys like Steiver, Lambert and McClure that are at due or die stages of their White Sox careers.  I am not too concerned about the rotation.  

I am not losing sleep over not paying Robby Ray 5/$115M to go back to walking the world.  The time to sign him was last offseason, not this. 

 

[chw42]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Ok, dude.  The Sox aren't suddenly operating with a $250M annual payroll moving forward.  I know that; most know that.  That doesn't mean I want to line Jr's pockets with cash, it means I live in reality.  We are fans of a middle market team, not the Yankees, or Dodgers or Mets, or other teams that can sign a decent pitcher coming off a career year to a $115M deal.  Let's not forget the Sox biggest FA expenditures in franchise history was 4/$73M to Grandal.  The Sox weren't about to smash that for Robby fuckin' Ray. 

Yes, Dallas Kuechel is our 5.  That is fine.  Yes, Kopech is unlikely to throw more than 150 innings.  The Sox will sign a SP and likely some milb guys.  We have ReyLo and a few guys like Steiver, Lambert and McClure that are at due or die stages of their White Sox careers.  I am not too concerned about the rotation.  

I am not losing sleep over not paying Robby Ray 5/$115M to go back to walking the world.  The time to sign him was last offseason, not this. 

 

Wait, are you saying we can't even compete for free agents with the likes of the Blue Jays and Mariners? That's even sadder. 

[turnin' two]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Every fan who says "I'm glad we didn't get that guy, he's an overpay" is arguing exactly that. Everyone who pushes the narrative that these guys are overpaid and they wouldn't give them those contracts is doing exactly that. They are promoting the idea that it's better for Jerry to keep the money than it is for him to give it to an "overpaid" player. 

Or... or, maybe they are being realistic about the White Sox having a budget that is not on par with teams like the Mets, Yankees and Dodgers, and are trying to prioritize how they would spend the money perceived to be available.  

[turnin' two]

2 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Wait, are you saying we can't even compete for free agents with the likes of the Blue Jays and Mariners? That's even sadder. 

That's true.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Every fan who says "I'm glad we didn't get that guy, he's an overpay" is arguing exactly that. Everyone who pushes the narrative that these guys are overpaid and they wouldn't give them those contracts is doing exactly that. They are promoting the idea that it's better for Jerry to keep the money than it is for him to give it to an "overpaid" player. 

I don’t know about that.  I think they realize a bad contract can really hinder us given Jerry won’t spend more to compensate.  Look at Dallas Keuchel as an example of what one bad deal can do to us and we will have a franchise record payroll this year.  It doesn’t make it right, but rather the reality of the situation.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, chw42 said:

Wait, are you saying we can't even compete for free agents with the likes of the Blue Jays and Mariners? That's even sadder. 

Well history would in fact indicate that the Sox aren't likely to spend over $100M on a player.  YEs, I know they offered $120M to Wheeler.  

Bleh - I am not going to argue about this anymore.  Sox were never signing Ray or Scherzer.  That does not mean this offseason is a failure. 

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, turnin' two said:

Or... or, maybe they are being realistic about the White Sox having a budget that is not on par with teams like the Mets, Yankees and Dodgers, and are trying to prioritize how they would spend the money perceived to be available.  

Mind blowing, right!?

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t know about that.  I think they realize a bad contract can really hinder us given Jerry won’t spend more to compensate.  Look at Dallas Keuchel as an example of what one bad deal can do to us and we will have a franchise record payroll this year.  It doesn’t make it right, but rather the reality of the situation.

Weren't you just on the side of "we should sign Gausman" and "they can easily sign 2 top free agents (one being an arm like Gausman/Ray)?" Now you're saying these guys are overpaid and it was never realistic? Or am I confusing you with other people on this board.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Bob Sacamano

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Ok, dude.  The Sox aren't suddenly operating with a $250M annual payroll moving forward.  I know that; most know that.  That doesn't mean I want to line Jr's pockets with cash, it means I live in reality.  We are fans of a middle market team, not the Yankees, or Dodgers or Mets, or other teams that can sign a decent pitcher coming off a career year to a $115M deal.  Let's not forget the Sox biggest FA expenditures in franchise history was 4/$73M to Grandal.  The Sox weren't about to smash that for Robby fuckin' Ray. 

Yes, Dallas Kuechel is our 5.  That is fine.  Yes, Kopech is unlikely to throw more than 150 innings.  The Sox will sign a SP and likely some milb guys.  We have ReyLo and a few guys like Steiver, Lambert and McClure that are at due or die stages of their White Sox careers.  I am not too concerned about the rotation.  

I am not losing sleep over not paying Robby Ray 5/$115M to go back to walking the world.  The time to sign him was last offseason, not this. 

 

The f'ing Seattle Mariners just signed Robbie Ray, not the Dodgers, Yankees or Mets. The Rangers signed Marcus Semien. The Blue Jays signed Kevin Gausman. lol

This place is truly something else. 

You said you were glad the Sox didn't give him that money. That has nothing to do with living in reality, it's a proclamation that you're happy the Sox didn't sign the reigning Cy Young winner because in your mind he was too expensive. 

Living in reality would be embracing the fact that the Sox have wasted more money in free agency than almost any team signing huge "bad" contracts. They've gotten a lesser return on their dollars than almost every single team in the game over the past twenty years. Yet you're still here living in reality asking them to continue to allocate their funds in that absurd manner. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Ok, dude.  The Sox aren't suddenly operating with a $250M annual payroll moving forward.  I know that; most know that.  That doesn't mean I want to line Jr's pockets with cash, it means I live in reality.  We are fans of a middle market team, not the Yankees, or Dodgers or Mets, or other teams that can sign a decent pitcher coming off a career year to a $115M deal.  Let's not forget the Sox biggest FA expenditures in franchise history was 4/$73M to Grandal.  The Sox weren't about to smash that for Robby fuckin' Ray. 

Yes, Dallas Kuechel is our 5.  That is fine.  Yes, Kopech is unlikely to throw more than 150 innings.  The Sox will sign a SP and likely some milb guys.  We have ReyLo and a few guys like Steiver, Lambert and McClure that are at due or die stages of their White Sox careers.  I am not too concerned about the rotation.  

I am not losing sleep over not paying Robby Ray 5/$115M to go back to walking the world.  The time to sign him was last offseason, not this. 

 

I’m aligned with most of what you’re saying, but the rotation is a major concern IMO.  The bottom two guys probably can’t go more than 300 innings next year and our depth beyond them is not good at all.  Lopez is semi-interesting but was also a few bad weeks from being DFA lasted year.  If Giolito or Lynn were to go down, we’re in pretty big trouble.  Yes, we can go sign some Rich Hill type for $10M, but we should be striving for more if we’re really trying to win a championship.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Or... or, maybe they are being realistic about the White Sox having a budget that is not on par with teams like the Mets, Yankees and Dodgers, and are trying to prioritize how they would spend the money perceived to be available.  

Who is asking them to be like the Yankees, Dodgers and Mets? I'm asking the Sox to stop acting like the A's and Pirates in FA's, not to start acting like the Dodgers and Yankees. Jaysus.

[turnin' two]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Who is asking them to be like the Yankees, Dodgers and Mets? I'm asking the Sox to stop acting like the A's and Pirates in FA's, not to start acting like the Dodgers and Yankees. Jaysus.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2021/

 

They're pretty far from the Pirates and A's in payroll.  

Edited November 29, 2021 by turnin' two

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/mlb-highest-payrolls-2021/

 

They're pretty far from the Pirates and A's in payroll.  

https://www.mlb.com/news/every-team-s-largest-contracts

The Sox are 27th in this category. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[EloyJenkins]

13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yes, Dallas Kuechel is our 5.  That is fine.  Yes, Kopech is unlikely to throw more than 150 innings.  The Sox will sign a SP and likely some milb guys.  We have ReyLo and a few guys like Steiver, Lambert and McClure that are at due or die stages of their White Sox careers.  I am not too concerned about the rotation.  

 

Oof, I was with you man. this take though...they needed Max, Ray or Gausman to guarantee an ALCS. Now...they have to hope patchwork carries them. Not a great bet when all it was was spending cash. Ray at that price was a fair value based on market. Can't even spend market rate...smdh.

Edited November 29, 2021 by EloyJenkins

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m aligned with most of what you’re saying, but the rotation is a major concern IMO.  The bottom two guys probably can’t go more than 300 innings next year and our depth beyond them is not good at all.  Lopez is semi-interesting but was also a few bad weeks from being DFA lasted year.  If Giolito or Lynn were to go down, we’re in pretty big trouble.  Yes, we can go sign some Rich Hill type for $10M, but we should be striving for more if we’re really trying to win a championship.

I am less concerned than you.  Most rotations are in trouble if they lose their #1 and/or #2.  Teams / players don't operate in the Balta world where your AAA is stashed with average major league vets.  

I think the Sox will win the ALC handily in 22.  I think Gio/Lynn/Kopech/Cease is a very good top 4 for the playoffs.  Would another really good SP in there be ideal?  Sure.  I am not saying it wouldn't.  ITs just lower on my list.  Plenty of offseason to go. Sox unfortunately will likely trade Vaughn for SP anyway.  Would I rather sign a good SP than trade Vaughn?  Fuck yeah.  But I know what a big contract SP would do to this franchise if it doesn't pan out. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, turnin' two said:

https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/mlb-highest-payrolls-2021/

 

They're pretty far from the Pirates and A's in payroll.  

Cool point, hence how I said in Free Agency. 

Are we back to celebrating a team having the 15th highest payroll in baseball last year?

[chw42]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The f'ing Seattle Mariners just signed Robbie Ray, not the Dodgers, Yankees or Mets. The Rangers signed Marcus Semien. The Blue Jays signed Kevin Gausman. lol

This place is truly something else. 

You said you were glad the Sox didn't give him that money. That has nothing to do with living in reality, it's a proclamation that you're happy the Sox didn't sign the reigning Cy Young winner because in your mind he was too expensive. 

Living in reality would be embracing the fact that the Sox have wasted more money in free agency than almost any team signing huge "bad" contracts. They've gotten a lesser return on their dollars than almost every single team in the game over the past twenty years. Yet you're still here living in reality asking them to continue to allocate their funds in that absurd manner. 

It really is a philosophical problem with this franchise. We love to spend money on mid-market players. It's not like we don't have a high payroll. We do, but our highest paid player is making under $20 million and we've never signed a free agent for a higher AAV than $19 million. If you asked this FO if they'd rather have one 6 WAR player making $30 million a year over 5 years or if they could sign three 2 WAR players over 3 years for $36 million combined a year they'd probably take the latter every time. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by chw42