Semien to Rangers, 7 for $175

[caulfield12]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Conforto is the better play for us…it’s really that simple.  I example an apology from you to the rest of the board if/when it happens later tonight.

Paging Endy Chavez or Ender Inciarte for RF.

[kleedawg]

16 minutes ago, Sarava said:

How about this....

Offer Baltimore Vaughn, Crochet and 2 lottery tickets for Cedric Mullins and put him in RF. He has 4 years of control left and makes less than a mil in 2022. There's our left handed power, with nice defense to boot.

Then sign Max Scherzer to a 2 year deal with the money saved in RF.

If you make those 2 moves, then do whatever the hell you want for 2B. Leury, Segura, Cesar...who cares.

Mullins can't throw,no way he plays RF.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

That's why you sign a TOR starter.

They just need a good starter; they don't absolutely need a TOR.

The mere thought of Hahn trading away these young players is just freaking scary.

I don't think it's that scary but since no one has stepped up to prove they are a top player anyone they trade could end up being the one. It's actually kind of sad funny that Tatis, Jr. at a younger age has proven more than Eloy ,Moncada, Kopech really any young player on the Sox despite his injuries also.

The one actual guy they didn't give any talent to get turns out to be the real keeper and every draft pick turns to dust.

[GreenSox]

15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You know what bothers me. We keep getting all kinds of arguments who has the potential to be great,among Robert, Eloy, Moncada and now Vaughn and every year Abreu and Anderson turns out to be our best hitters. A couple of those dudes have to step up and stop getting injured. No one would be freaking out over missing out on a few players to make the team better if those guys start playing like we think think should. People last year didn't want to trade Vaughn, Kopech and Crochet. We are waiting on an awful lot of potential.

I know they haven't been around long and are still young but someone please step up.

Robert was  the best hitter on the team.  Kopech and Crochet both pitched well out of the pen, which is all they were asked to do.  They did step up.

Vaughn was in year 1.  After this long-ass rebuild, the Sox shouldn't be in a position to need him right now anyway.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

21 minutes ago, NCsoxfan said:

You can try to walk back your smart a comment that didn’t address my point, but the reality is chasing the top free agents each off season isn’t typically a good strategy. There’s ways of more prudently spending the same amount of dollars and getting a better bang for your buck. A high payroll doesn’t tell you the composition of the contracts (you of course know this but were intentionally being disingenuous).

The Semien deal and many others leave the signing team with little/no upside optionality. Even if they perform they’re merely justifying the contract. Winning teams have some players outperforming their contracts. So no I’m not upset at all about Semien, and I’d prefer signings with upside optionality. 

The young players on a roster are supposed to outperform their concepts because they're grossly underpaid. 

Veterans performing to their contracts is fine.

I'm not going to get into a huge payroll debate, but salaries in MLB have not scaled with revenues. Not even close. In the period of time that revenues are up nearly 200%, avg player salary is up 76%. Overpayments imply some sense that owners lose money on those contracts. They don't. Fans have bought some erroneous and absurd billionaire narrative that big contracts that don't perform at the end of them hurt franchises. It's complete BS. Players don't get paid when they're young, so you are going to have to "overpay" whent they're older. If Semien is 4+ fWAR player for 3 out of 7 years, the contract is a big win. If he is a key cog on a title team it's a grandslam. The back end of contracts have no actual impact on a teams ability to spend. Owners have merely taken more and more of the revenue share over the past two decades while fans root for them to make even more. It's absoutely baffling. You're not paying for Semein in 2026-2027. You're paying for his production over the next 2-3 seasons and hoping he puts your team over the top. That generates huge revenues for a team and pays for itself on the back end. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Conforto is the better play for us…it’s really that simple.  I expect an apology from you to the rest of the board if/when it happens later tonight.

It's unlikely, although not impossible by any means, that Conforto is a more valuable player over the next three years than Semien. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

22 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Passing on one particular deal proves that?  I would have prioritized RF & SP over paying someone $175M to pay 2B for us too.  Let’s wait a bit long before you start patting yourself on the back for being cheap.

Gausman gone too pal. They're not in on the top top guys, so you're left with two guys:

Conforto and Ray. There are 29 other teams. No reason to think the Sox sign both.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

Robert hit pretty well last year when he played. Pretty confident there.

We're pretty confident in a lot of guys that was my point. That confidence has to be replaced by knowing they will be great every year instead of injured or slugging .400.

Hell Madrigal can probably slug .400

[GreenSox]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Conforto is the better play for us…it’s really that simple.  

How so?
Semien (fielding and hitting) is an elite 2B; Conforto is not an elite RF.  The Sox actually have players who can cover RF pretty well.
They have no one to play 2B adequately.

Edited November 29, 2021 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Robert was  the best hitter on the team.  Kopech and Crochet both pitched well out of the pen, which is all they were asked to do.  They did step up.

Vaughn was in year 1.  After this long-ass rebuild, the Sox shouldn't be in a position to need him right now anyway.

See early Cubs' career Bryant...

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

How so?
Semien is an elite 2B; Conforto is not an elite RF (fielding and hitting).  The Sox actually have players who can cover RF pretty well.
They have no one to play 2B adequately.

In Rick (Hahn) and Romy's High School Reunion We Trust.

Edited November 29, 2021 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Gausman gone too pal. They're not in on the top top guys, so you're left with two guys:

Conforto and Ray. There are 29 other teams. No reason to think the Sox sign both.

Who did Gausman sign with?  I haven’t seen anything but rumors on him.

Regardless, Conforto has always been the target.  And give that a few more hours before claiming victory.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Robert was  the best hitter on the team.  Kopech and Crochet both pitched well out of the pen, which is all they were asked to do.  They did step up.

Vaughn was in year 1.  After this long-ass rebuild, the Sox shouldn't be in a position to need him right now anyway.

Robert wasn't available over half the year. 4 and 5th guys out of the BP aren't top players in the game. . You wanna win we need some great players not great potential. Right now the Sox are filled with potential and lacking in greatness. If you want to keep waiting. hey it could be the right path.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Who did Gausman sign with?  I haven’t seen anything but rumors on him.

Regardless, Conforto has always been the target.  And give that a few more hours before claiming victory.

So Scherzer, Ray, Gausman and Semien were never targets? It was always Conforto. Interesting moving of those goal posts. 

Sorry if I'm not going to throw a party about acquiring inconsistent Conforto (who I actually am a fan of). If that's the prize again, it's just the Sox proving they'll never enter the price range needed to sign really talented FA's. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

How so?
Semien (fielding and hitting) is an elite 2B; Conforto is not an elite RF.  The Sox actually have players who can cover RF pretty well.
They have no one to play 2B adequately.

Because solid 2B production can be acquired for dirt cheap.  And these players that can “cover” RF pretty are horrible defensively.  Get the long-term answer for RF while also solving our problem against RHP.  His contract will be far more reasonable than what Semien and will allow us to allocate money elsewhere.

And for the record, I would not have complained had we signed Semien to this deal, but I’d definitely prefer Conforto + other things.

[Baron]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Who did Gausman sign with?  I haven’t seen anything but rumors on him.

Regardless, Conforto has always been the target.  And give that a few more hours before claiming victory.

Oh oh I know this one! Gausman has signed with nobody yet and he had about 12 teams after him. 

[wegner]

2 minutes ago, Baron said:

Oh oh I know this one! Gausman has signed with nobody yet and he had about 12 teams after him. 

?

[Chicago White Sox]

23 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So Scherzer, Ray, Gausman and Semien were never targets? It was always Conforto. Interesting moving of those goal posts. 

Sorry if I'm not going to throw a party about acquiring inconsistent Conforto (who I actually am a fan of). If that's the prize again, it's just the Sox proving they'll never enter the price range needed to sign really talented FA's. 

Moving of what goal posts?  I’ve always said I felt that Conforto has been the priority.  

And lol at “inconsistent” Conforto.  You realize Semien has been an above league average hitter two years right?  When has Michael not been good except for 2021?  Like now you’re just making shit up to be angry about.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Chicago White Sox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

49 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

It is still November I believe. You can't say that until the offseason is over. 

Problem is this November is more active than many Novembers preceding it because of the looming lockout. We may not have Dec. through Feb. to sign or trade anyone  if the CBA isn't resolved til March and there's a mad scramble to sign and make trades.

[caulfield12]

List all the available players (not counting trades) you would be happy if the White Sox were to sign only one of them.

Four SS, K.Bryant, S.Suzuki, Gausman, Conforto, Ray, Kershaw...better not hear either Greinke or Bauer.

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

List all the available players (not counting trades) you would be happy if the White Sox were to sign only one of them.

Four SS, K.Bryant, S.Suzuki, Gausman, Conforto, Ray, Kershaw...better not hear either Greinke or Bauer.

Is kershaw much better than Greinke right now?

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

List all the available players (not counting trades) you would be happy if the White Sox were to sign only one of them.

Four SS, K.Bryant, S.Suzuki, Gausman, Conforto, Ray, Kershaw...better not hear either Greinke or Bauer.

Conforto, the big three pitchers (Scherzer, Gausman, Ray), Correa / Seager (these two not happening), & Bryant.  We’d still need to fill other holes with trades or less free agent signings, but I’d be content if we landed one of those guys.  Schwarber would be dependent on how we addressed RF.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Chicago White Sox

[zisk]

just heard the news. glad for marcus. glad we wont be paying 25 mil for him the second half of that contract.

 

[South Side Hit Men]

27 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

After further thought, I'm actually really excited that the Sox didn't sign a perennial MVP candidate because in 2028 we want to make sure we maintain that elite financial flexibility to miss out on marquee free agents then as well. $/WAR championships are the real champions. 

I hope baseball owners can continue to grow their share of the pie over the players because there's nothing I like watching more than Jerry Reinsdorf count all his money in the owners box. It's my favorite thing to bid on during the White Sox charities auction every year.

Let's go! Bring on Chris Taylor!!

Sorry, not in the budget. You'll get Leury, and like it.

These were my expectations coming into the offseason (what I expected, not what I wanted), and each day they become closer to fruition.

• 2B Josh Harrison / Jose Iglesias
• RF Sheets/Vaughn
• Util Leury Garcia
• RP Tepera or Equivalent (Graveman takes this slot, though they may sign Tepera or one more, especially if they dump Kimbrel for prospects)
• SP Duffy/Wacha/Pineda $7M-$8M Over The Hill Type (perhaps 42 year old Rich Hill)
• Trade Kimbrel for prospect(s) and/or low-leverage RP

Predicted payroll increase to the $160M-$170M range.

White Sox Baseball - Broke Since 1901

[SoxBlanco]

34 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So Scherzer, Ray, Gausman and Semien were never targets? It was always Conforto. Interesting moving of those goal posts. 

Sorry if I'm not going to throw a party about acquiring inconsistent Conforto (who I actually am a fan of). If that's the prize again, it's just the Sox proving they'll never enter the price range needed to sign really talented FA's. 

Ray Ray, would you be happy if we signed Conforto and one of Scherzer/Ray/Gausman?