bmags Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Free Agency: Trevor Story - 112 career wRC+ estimated cost: $18M-22M+ Annually Pluses - Defense (while this has been very muted outside a tremendous 2019, lots of signs he should be a great 2b - he is excellent at DP depth), Power (career .251 iso) Walks (9% walk rae) Minuses - Unknown coors effects Below Avg vs. RHP (98 career wRC+, 83 last year, our division has excellent RHP) Contact (23% K rate) Josh Harrison - 103 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($4-5M+ annually) Pluses - Contact (13% krate) Not bad vs RHP (98 wRC+) Defense (outs above average loves, loves Josh Harrison) Minuses - Inconsistent offense (career 98 wRC+) BABIP dependent no power Age of decline (34 years old) Jose Iglesias - 91 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($2-3M+ annually) Pluses - Contact (14% krate) Defense (outs above average likes his 2b more than his SS at this age) Minuses - BABIP dependent offense Bad vs RHP (81 wRC+) Doesn't walk Donovan Solano - 105 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($2-3M+ annually) Pluses - Slightly above average offensively Average power 96 wRC+ (counts as positive with this group) Minuses - Bad defensively unreliable walk rate, higher k rate 34 years old Andrelton Simmons - 56 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($6-9M+ annually) Pluses - World class defense at shortstop Can backup TA Plus Contact Minuses - Horrendous offense Zero power BABIP driven offense Career 85 wRC+ vs RHP Trades: Jean Segura - 103 2021 wRC+ COST 14M + 1M 2023 buyout Pluses - Great defense at second Contact (13% K rate) Average vs RHP Minuses - Fathom says he is mopey and has bad vibes Lacks power Expensive money wise Tony Kemp - 127 2021 wRC+ COST $2.5M Pluses - Great OBP in 3 of last 4 years (STEAMER predicts .350 OBP) Career 103 wRC+ vs RHP, 130 wRC+ last year Good, versatile defense by OAA Seems like he should be cheap prospect wise Minuses - Not a strong history of reliable performance to trust any of the above aside from defense Jeff McNeil - 93 2021 wRC+ COST PRE-ARB did not see value Pluses - Career 126 wRC+ 3 years of control Career 132 wRC+ vs RHP Contact 14% kRate Walk Rate 13% Walk Rate Great defense at 2b by OAA very likely the most perfect fit possible Minuses - Bad 2021 Expensive by Prospects/talent likely Ryan McMahon - 95 2021 wRC+ COST PRE-ARB did not see value Pluses - Above average vs RHP (106 wRC+) Good power (.195 iso) Good walk rates Minuses - Bad contact (25-30%K) While excellent last year, in 2019-20 was a ground ball machine a la Leury Garcia Amazing at 3rd, but only average to slightly below average at 2b by OAA Likely requires a very strong package of talent Tommy LaStella - 94 2021 wRC+ COST $6M Pluses - Madrigal-level contact Good BB rate Good GB% career 107 wRC+ vs RHP Minuses - Bad 2021 Back injury in 2021 and struggled after Not good defensively, possibly very bad late bloomer Possible platoon bad w/ Leury Easiest way out of this appears to be Kemp trade. Best way out seems to be McNeil, but I have 5% confidence he's traded. 4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Great post, gross options. Gimme Harrison, Segura, Kemp or McNeil I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) Minuses - Fathom says he is mopey and has bad vibes Lacks power Expensive money wise Is that the recent Phillies version, Seattle or Milwaukee one? Apparently not quite so easy to find a 2B as has been repeated over and over again since Kimbrel trade. Certainly not one you can pretty much guarantee a 2.5 fWAR, at least. Take another shot at Villar, but then is he going to be any better than Leury? McNeil is going to cost too much talent to acquire…off the big league roster in all likelihood. Also, we should do this for all the teams looking at Conforto for RF. Edited December 2, 2021 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Snopek said: Great post, gross options. Gimme Harrison, Segura, Kemp or McNeil I guess? I can get on board with some of the lesser options if they get Conforto in RF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleedawg Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 I would add via trade Raul Mondesi Jr. Also RH hitting RHP well is not the same as hitting LH. first its and average taken against all RHP faced. What it likely shows is that the killed shitty and mediocre RHP and Struggled against the aces. In the playoffs all you see is good to great pitching. Secondly, A left handed hitter causes a pitcher to change his release point making it more likely he makes a mistake. A slider pitcher like Mcullers will also be reluctant to throw a slider to a lefty and will opt for a change-up which would be his 3rd or 4th best pitch, which he is more likely to make a mistake with. So all these post about he's rh but hits rhp good are kind of missing the point. Its a nice thing to have but its better to have some quality LH hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I can get on board with some of the lesser options if they get Conforto in RF. Yup, that was the assumption I was making. With Kemp and Harrison being those lesser options I'd be okay with. Edited December 2, 2021 by Snopek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 2, 2021 Author Share Posted December 2, 2021 I'm not sure I'd be okay with Josh Harrison. I kinda think he is a DFA candidate in June. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Carlos Correa, of course! In an alternative Sox-Verse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan3530 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 I'll take Segura at this point if it means we spend on RF and maybe SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoeLessRob Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 We’re doomed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 McNeal would be great, especially cause he can play some OF too. But I think that's a pipedream. He'd be very expensive and Mets are trying to win. For me, 2B predicates quite a bit on what we do in RF. If we were to sign Conforto, we can go any number of directions at 2B and be fine. LaStella is still a super interesting name for me. Giants could probably still use more SP and Keuchel would play well in that park. Those two are close to an eveb swap $ wise, but LaStella has 2 years ($5.25M in 22; $11.5M in 23) versus Keuchel's 1 year at $18M (with $1.5M buyout on $20M team option that becomes vesting upon 160 IP in 22). Sox probably have to throw something interesting in here as well - perhaps Burger would interest them. They are getting old and thin and IF corners. I love the LaStella fit. That also creates about $12M in room for 22, combined with moving Kimbrel, Sox would create about $30M to spend on Conforto and SP by going this route. Lineup: Anderson SS, Moncada 3B, Abreu 1B, Eloy DH, Grandal C, Robert CF, Conforto RF, Vaughn LF, LaStella 2B Rotation: Giolito, Lynn, Kopech, Cease and FA SP But the FA SP options getting pretty thin, so perhaps we go trade route with Gray/Castillo/Mahle/Manea/Bassit for the last SP using Sheets as the headliner with a combination of our HS pitching prospects and/or MLB ready guys that don't have much of a role in Chicago moving forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan3530 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 If they get an all-star caliber (or close to it) bat in RF, they have more than enough in their lineup to be a great offense with an average 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 2, 2021 Author Share Posted December 2, 2021 I also don't think there is a snowballs chance of McNeil being traded. I didn't include my personal pet theory of Robinson Cano, shame on me. The roided version of him was still pretty darn good with the Mets. And you basically swap out the keuchel liabilities and ask for cash for 2022 on him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, bmags said: I also don't think there is a snowballs chance of McNeil being traded. I didn't include my personal pet theory of Robinson Cano, shame on me. The roided version of him was still pretty darn good with the Mets. And you basically swap out the keuchel liabilities and ask for cash for 2022 on him. I would have rather have just paid he opt-out than this option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 2, 2021 Author Share Posted December 2, 2021 Just now, Bob Sacamano said: I would have rather have just paid he opt-out than this option. I honest to god think it could work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 minute ago, bmags said: I also don't think there is a snowballs chance of McNeil being traded. I didn't include my personal pet theory of Robinson Cano, shame on me. The roided version of him was still pretty darn good with the Mets. And you basically swap out the keuchel liabilities and ask for cash for 2022 on him. A Kuechel for Cano trade is kind of interesting if you assume Conforto is in hand . But he's still due $40M from the Mets the next 2 seasons. Not really sure how you can make the finances make sense for both sides. Not sure essentially flipping Keuchel for Cano with Mets eating the difference ($22M or so) really makes sense for either side. Its interesting enough to talk about tho purely in a time wasting fashion and we sit here the next couple months with no activity. LaStella is a much more interesting name in terms of chances of actually happen and the economics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 I really hope Madrigal ends up mediocre/really is an irredeemable ass, otherwise trading him to downgrade 2B for much more money seems really stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: A Kuechel for Cano trade is kind of interesting if you assume Conforto is in hand . But he's still due $40M from the Mets the next 2 seasons. Not really sure how you can make the finances make sense for both sides. Not sure essentially flipping Keuchel for Cano with Mets eating the difference ($22M or so) really makes sense for either side. Its interesting enough to talk about tho purely in a time wasting fashion and we sit here the next couple months with no activity. LaStella is a much more interesting name in terms of chances of actually happen and the economics. Would it make any sense for the Mets to take Keuchel and Kimbrel for Cano? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, almagest said: I really hope Madrigal ends up mediocre/really is an irredeemable ass, otherwise trading him to downgrade 2B for much more money seems really stupid. I think this is already etched is stone. The trade was, in fact, really, really stupid. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 hour ago, bmags said: Free Agency: Trevor Story - 112 career wRC+ estimated cost: $18M-22M+ Annually Pluses - Defense (while this has been very muted outside a tremendous 2019, lots of signs he should be a great 2b - he is excellent at DP depth), Power (career .251 iso) Walks (9% walk rae) Minuses - Unknown coors effects Below Avg vs. RHP (98 career wRC+, 83 last year, our division has excellent RHP) Contact (23% K rate) Josh Harrison - 103 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($4-5M+ annually) Pluses - Contact (13% krate) Not bad vs RHP (98 wRC+) Defense (outs above average loves, loves Josh Harrison) Minuses - Inconsistent offense (career 98 wRC+) BABIP dependent no power Age of decline (34 years old) Jose Iglesias - 91 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($2-3M+ annually) Pluses - Contact (14% krate) Defense (outs above average likes his 2b more than his SS at this age) Minuses - BABIP dependent offense Bad vs RHP (81 wRC+) Doesn't walk Donovan Solano - 105 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($2-3M+ annually) Pluses - Slightly above average offensively Average power 96 wRC+ (counts as positive with this group) Minuses - Bad defensively unreliable walk rate, higher k rate 34 years old Andrelton Simmons - 56 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($6-9M+ annually) Pluses - World class defense at shortstop Can backup TA Plus Contact Minuses - Horrendous offense Zero power BABIP driven offense Career 85 wRC+ vs RHP Trades: Jean Segura - 103 2021 wRC+ COST 14M + 1M 2023 buyout Pluses - Great defense at second Contact (13% K rate) Average vs RHP Minuses - Fathom says he is mopey and has bad vibes Lacks power Expensive money wise Tony Kemp - 127 2021 wRC+ COST $2.5M Pluses - Great OBP in 3 of last 4 years (STEAMER predicts .350 OBP) Career 103 wRC+ vs RHP, 130 wRC+ last year Good, versatile defense by OAA Seems like he should be cheap prospect wise Minuses - Not a strong history of reliable performance to trust any of the above aside from defense Jeff McNeil - 93 2021 wRC+ COST PRE-ARB did not see value Pluses - Career 126 wRC+ 3 years of control Career 132 wRC+ vs RHP Contact 14% kRate Walk Rate 13% Walk Rate Great defense at 2b by OAA very likely the most perfect fit possible Minuses - Bad 2021 Expensive by Prospects/talent likely Ryan McMahon - 95 2021 wRC+ COST PRE-ARB did not see value Pluses - Above average vs RHP (106 wRC+) Good power (.195 iso) Good walk rates Minuses - Bad contact (25-30%K) While excellent last year, in 2019-20 was a ground ball machine a la Leury Garcia Amazing at 3rd, but only average to slightly below average at 2b by OAA Likely requires a very strong package of talent Tommy LaStella - 94 2021 wRC+ COST $6M Pluses - Madrigal-level contact Good BB rate Good GB% career 107 wRC+ vs RHP Minuses - Bad 2021 Back injury in 2021 and struggled after Not good defensively, possibly very bad late bloomer Possible platoon bad w/ Leury Easiest way out of this appears to be Kemp trade. Best way out seems to be McNeil, but I have 5% confidence he's traded. Jeff McNeil is my guy I want and has been for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Would it make any sense for the Mets to take Keuchel and Kimbrel for Cano? I don't see why the Sox would do that. Create 2 holes, and maybe sorta kinda solve one in 2B with a 40 YO Cano, but take on money in the process. I think Cano would make some sense with Conforto in hand purely as a salary dump from the Mets. Basically, Mets eat $30 of the $40M they owe him and Sox take a $5M AAV gamble on 40 and 41 year old Cano. Anything more than that doesn't make much sense for the Sox, IMO. Edited December 2, 2021 by ChiSox59 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: I think this is already etched is stone. The trade was, in fact, really, really stupid. For whatever reason Madrigal and Heuer were firmly in their "must trade" pool, and that's fine if their talent evaluators said "sell high please" or they were both low character guys. Using them for Kimbrel was a bad decision at the time, looks even worse by his performance, and is only redeemable if they pull off a coup of a trade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, bmags said: I also don't think there is a snowballs chance of McNeil being traded. I didn't include my personal pet theory of Robinson Cano, shame on me. The roided version of him was still pretty darn good with the Mets. And you basically swap out the keuchel liabilities and ask for cash for 2022 on him. Cano had to stop playing winter ball because of a bad back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, bmags said: I also don't think there is a snowballs chance of McNeil being traded. I didn't include my personal pet theory of Robinson Cano, shame on me. The roided version of him was still pretty darn good with the Mets. And you basically swap out the keuchel liabilities and ask for cash for 2022 on him. I too am intrigued by a Keuchel/Cano swap if nothing else can come. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, almagest said: For whatever reason Madrigal and Heuer were firmly in their "must trade" pool, and that's fine if their talent evaluators said "sell high please" or they were both low character guys. Using them for Kimbrel was a bad decision at the time, looks even worse by his performance, and is only redeemable if they pull off a coup of a trade. They didn't sell high on Madrigal though. That's the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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