5 year anniversary of the start of the rebuild

[southsider2k5]

 

[ChiSox59]

Crazy its been half a decade already. 

[Jerry McNertney]

It's been five years and it's still too early to tell if it was a good trade for the White Sox. Moncada has been okay, but nothing like his advance billing. Diaz and Basabe, nothing. Kopech is the obvious wild card. If he develops into the stud starter that many still believe is possible, then it will have been a real good trade of Sale.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Jerry McNertney said:

It's been five years and it's still too early to tell if it was a good trade for the White Sox. Moncada has been okay, but nothing like his advance billing. Diaz and Basabe, nothing. Kopech is the obvious wild card. If he develops into the stud starter that many still believe is possible, then it will have been a real good trade of Sale.

Chris Sale was on the mound to close out a world series in part because Boston's highly paid closer at the time was bad, so they got something out of him - but he also developed some arm troubles just as he was extended. 

Thus far, I think there's a decent balance here. The Red Sox got what they needed - a short jolt of elite performance to get over the hump. The White Sox got something they needed - a solid major league contributor when they were ready to make the playoffs again. 

[Snopek]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

aka The Victor Diaz Trade

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, Jerry McNertney said:

It's been five years and it's still too early to tell if it was a good trade for the White Sox. Moncada has been okay, but nothing like his advance billing. Diaz and Basabe, nothing. Kopech is the obvious wild card. If he develops into the stud starter that many still believe is possible, then it will have been a real good trade of Sale.

The White Sox are in the playoffs back to back years, in a measure thanks to this trade, and you still don't know.

[bmags]

More than anything the benefit of the trade was a clarity of direction that the org could get behind. It's maybe surprising that Yoan is still putting it all together, but that's why you bet on talent like that. He has become very good defensively. His OBP has given him a high floor. And if he can once again pair the high OBP with 25 HRs, then you have an MVP candidate.

[caulfield12]

He's now essentially on a four year, $79 million contract.

The odds of an MVP for either Yoan or Buxton are approximately equal, as are their risk/reward scenarios financially.

You could even argue Buxton financially has more of an incentive with those Top Ten MVP vote escalators built into his deal.

Both top overall prospects in the game at similar career crossroads in terms of putting together one full totally dominant season.  Moncada's 2019 is the closest...but then Covid and new baseballs.

[NWINFan]

17 hours ago, bmags said:

More than anything the benefit of the trade was a clarity of direction that the org could get behind. It's maybe surprising that Yoan is still putting it all together, but that's why you bet on talent like that. He has become very good defensively. His OBP has given him a high floor. And if he can once again pair the high OBP with 25 HRs, then you have an MVP candidate.

I agree with you on the clarity thing. It seemed the Sox had no direction and the losing showed it. I hate tanking, but at least we knew what the team was trying to accomplish. It is now time for the organization to truly show how serious it is about creating an elite franchise. There has been good progress, but I don't put much value into the 2020 playoff appearance. Hopefully the lockout will not be as bad as it appears to be.

[Eminor3rd]

I was at this winter meetings attending seminars, it was fun having it be such a topic on everyone's mind at the hotel bars. 

I also saw KW at the trade show. He was walking around like someone who had been very stressed and was intentionally trying to find a way to appear less stressed.

[Dominikk85]

The results the last two years weren't ideal in the end but you have to admit the rebuilt went pretty quickly, just 3 years without playoffs (17,18,19) with only two of them being worst team in baseball type of years. 

 

That sucks too of course but if you compare it with the Orioles, pirates or Phillies a couple years ago who were tanking like 6 years before it got better (Orioles and pirates still not there yet) it could have been worse. 

Obviously having cost controlled assets like sale, quintana and Eaton made a big difference in jump starting the rebuild over the other teams who had nothing to trade but still in the end it went pretty well. 

Still a WS appearance is missing so far but considering the Sox were a mid 70s win team before the rebuild the cost of the rebuild wasn't that high. 

[caulfield12]

39 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

The results the last two years weren't ideal in the end but you have to admit the rebuilt went pretty quickly, just 3 years without playoffs (17,18,19) with only two of them being worst team in baseball type of years. 

 

That sucks too of course but if you compare it with the Orioles, pirates or Phillies a couple years ago who were tanking like 6 years before it got better (Orioles and pirates still not there yet) it could have been worse. 

Obviously having cost controlled assets like sale, quintana and Eaton made a big difference in jump starting the rebuild over the other teams who had nothing to trade but still in the end it went pretty well. 

Still a WS appearance is missing so far but considering the Sox were a mid 70s win team before the rebuild the cost of the rebuild wasn't that high. 

Well, therein lies the question.

Without those three players (and you can add in the Frazier/Robertson trade as 3 1/2) to jump start things...how long would it have taken the White Sox to get to the position they're in today?

You can argue that Tatis and Robert (at least potentially) offset each other, or will eventually, but I suppose it's possible looking at how things played out we would have not made the playoffs in either year.

 

 

The reality is that White Sox fans, after suffering roughly a decade...I don't think they would have had the patience like KC/Houston/Cubs fans to go through a complete rebuild...basically starting from scratch and building through the June draft, FA and international markets.

The Padres, for instance, also "rushed" their rebuild in an effort to catch the Dodgers a year or two before they were originally projected to, and it imploded in dramatic fashion.

It's just that now we're unfortunately in a situation where we're lacking the finishing/"put us over the top" pieces and our trade chips are at an all-time low with a #30 farm system.  Time will tell, I guess, what they do when/if he lockout's over and the market conditions for MLB settle into a more predictable financial landscape.

 

History might say that 2021 (with Rodon and Lynn) was the year to really push and put all the chips in (RF, for example)...instead of waiting.  Obviously, they made the Kimbrel trade, which is still impacting the future outlook of the team until that's cleared up or clarified one way or the other.

[GreenSox]

The Sale trade is still pending Kopech - if he's not a #2, then the Sox really got the short end of this one.  Sale was an elite pitcher on a muti-year contract with favorable terms.

It would have been nice for Hahn to have found his direction prior to selling away Tatis, Semien, and 40% of the As rotation for pennies on the dollar and also squandering the #26 pick in the draft.  

[caulfield12]

10 hours ago, GreenSox said:

The Sale trade is still pending Kopech - if he's not a #2, then the Sox really got the short end of this one.  Sale was an elite pitcher on a muti-year contract with favorable terms.

It would have been nice for Hahn to have found his direction prior to selling away Tatis, Semien, and 40% of the As rotation for pennies on the dollar and also squandering the #26 pick in the draft.  

https://www.fueledbysports.com/chicago-white-sox-first-round-draft-picks/

Not many teams could successfully "blow" 2015-2018 and be so well positioned, lol?

If you include Rodon now, it's actually a five year time period wandering in the wilderness...outside of Sheets and maybe Burger (potentially) being 2022 contributors or more likely trade chips.

 

P.S.  Certainly Rodon contributed a lot in 2021 after "testing" quite limited FA, but not as much as was universally expected based on his position in the draft.  Obviously, more than Kolek and Aiken, though.

Edited December 9, 2021 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fueledbysports.com/chicago-white-sox-first-round-draft-picks/

Not many teams could successfully "blow" 2015-2018 and be so well positioned, lol?

 

That's due to Sale and the 2 Eaton trades (credit to Hahn on those 2) and Williams' evaluation of Cuban players.   That is why I have no interest in this "3 year window' stuff and  what gives me hope that the Sox can keep this going:  We would have been good for 5-10 years and counting, but for some stupid trades, none of which had much upside at all.  And we're certainly not dependent on top 10 draft picks (we blew most of those and we still rebuilt fine).  The only way this ceases anytime soon is if the Sox make more bad trades (or severe overpayments) for veterans.

Edited December 9, 2021 by GreenSox

[tray]

I was quite upset about the Madrigal trade the moment I heard about it.  You cannot replace a talent like that by trading Kimbrel.

There were a few here like SS2K that were of the opinion that Kimbrel would virtually guarantee a WS championship but not too many want to back Hahn for trading Madrigal any more. Hahn blew a hold in the infield that he cannot plug.

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, tray said:

I was quite upset about the Madrigal trade the moment I heard about it.  You cannot replace a talent like that by trading Kimbrel.

There were a few here like SS2K that were of the opinion that Kimbrel would virtually guarantee a WS championship but not too many want to back Hahn for trading Madrigal any more. Hahn blew a hold in the infield that he cannot plug.

I think I owe you a rent check for living in your head. Either that or you owe me royalties for all of the airplay.