Mets could shop McNeil, Sox could have interest

[Bunt Ritual]

FWIW, the Met's writer for the Athletic thinks it more likely that J.D. Davis gets move than McNeil.  Mainly because he thinks Escobar is going to be used as a 3B instead of a 2B.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Bunt Ritual

[Bob Sacamano]

21 minutes ago, Bunt Ritual said:

FWIW, the Met's writer for the Athletic thinks it more likely that J.D. Davis gets move than McNeil.  Mainly because he thinks Escobar is going to be used as a 3B instead of a 2B.

They still kind of a glut of players, not that Cano should be blocking anyone.

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, poppysox said:

So what is the realistic price to pay?

Crochet.

But hopefully they'd bite on something like Cespedes/Burger, Thompson/Dalquist and Rodriguez/Ramos. Doubtful, but a guy can dream. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Bunt Ritual said:

FWIW, the Met's writer for the Athletic thinks it more likely that J.D. Davis gets move than McNeil.  Mainly because he thinks Escobar is going to be used as a 3B instead of a 2B.

Although I don't know if anyone's actually doing this given the current circumstances, that's the kind of thing you leak to a reporter to tweet when you're trying to drive teams to put a good offer on the table for a guy you're likely to move. "Oh we might not actually move this guy, we might move this other guy, so you better come to us with your best deal!"

[SCCWS]

52 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Crochet.

But hopefully they'd bite on something like Cespedes/Burger, Thompson/Dalquist and Rodriguez/Ramos. Doubtful, but a guy can dream. 

But if SP is really their goal, Mets may find a better partner unless Crochet is the piece.  

[southsider2k5]

An exercise here is what would you pay for someone coming off of ...

.249BA

.303OBP

.437SLG

.740OPS

100OPS+

[GreenSox]

A 30 year old late bloomer whose last 2 seasons were 1.5 and .5 WAR.  Yea, but let's send Crochet, one of our best young pitchers,  as a starter package.  That's the way the way winning organizations do it.

Peddle  for Peddle. Kimbrel at most, and I wouldn't even do that.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by GreenSox

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

A 30 year old late bloomer whose last 2 seasons were 1.5 and .5 WAR.  Yea, but let's send Crochet, one of our best young pitchers,  as a starter package.  That's the way the way winning organizations do it.

Peddle  for Peddle. Kimbrel at most, and I wouldn't even do that.

 

Did you miss 2020 was a shortened season due to COVID?  Cause no idea how anyone could think “only 1.5 WAR in 52 games” is somehow bad.

[ChiSox59]

42 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

But if SP is really their goal, Mets may find a better partner unless Crochet is the piece.  

I would agree that I don't see McNeil happening without us giving up Crochet.  

[ChiSox59]

36 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

A 30 year old late bloomer whose last 2 seasons were 1.5 and .5 WAR.  Yea, but let's send Crochet, one of our best young pitchers,  as a starter package.  That's the way the way winning organizations do it.

Peddle  for Peddle. Kimbrel at most, and I wouldn't even do that.

 

Got to give to get.  McNeil is a much better player than you're giving credit for.  No one is jumping up and down to move Crochet, but they aren't going to just hand over McNeil for a pile of trash. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

45 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

A 30 year old late bloomer whose last 2 seasons were 1.5 and .5 WAR.  Yea, but let's send Crochet, one of our best young pitchers,  as a starter package.  That's the way the way winning organizations do it.

Peddle  for Peddle. Kimbrel at most, and I wouldn't even do that.

 

His 1.5 WAR was in a 1/3 of a season..  Nice try Rocky Dennis

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I would agree that I don't see McNeil happening without us giving up Crochet.  

I do wonder if you could get him with Kimbrel + a prospect.  Burger, Sheets, one of the highschool pitchers?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

A 30 year old late bloomer whose last 2 seasons were 1.5 and .5 WAR.  Yea, but let's send Crochet, one of our best young pitchers,  as a starter package.  That's the way the way winning organizations do it.

Peddle  for Peddle. Kimbrel at most, and I wouldn't even do that.

 

Bravo on presenting 52 of 60 games in the context of a full season.

[maxjusttyped]

Continuing to subtract valuable long-term pieces from the big league roster to (theoretically) make the 2022 team better is a great way to just shorten your window. If Kimbrel and prospects with non 2022 ETA's aren't enough to get a deal done (it probably isn't), then the Sox should look elsewhere.

[maxjusttyped]

Not sure I really see the fit for Burger or Sheets on the Mets roster, anyways. They already have JD Davis and Dom Smith as more established versions of both of those guys. If the Mets were interested in a potentially"expendable" (I don't think he is) player with long-term upside on the Sox ML roster I think it would have to be Crochet.

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I do wonder if you could get him with Kimbrel + a prospect.  Burger, Sheets, one of the highschool pitchers?

It’s the Mets so I won’t say anything is impossible, but the Mets would have been in a very high tax bracket in the last CBA. If things don’t change dramatically, this would add $20 million to their payroll without giving them any starting pitching help, which they say they want.

And that’s without my normal caveat that Kimbrel isn’t even worth his current contract.

[bmags]

14 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

Continuing to subtract valuable long-term pieces from the big league roster to (theoretically) make the 2022 team better is a great way to just shorten your window. If Kimbrel and prospects with non 2022 ETA's aren't enough to get a deal done (it probably isn't), then the Sox should look elsewhere.

I agree with this, trying to balance at the major league level is a fools errand. If we go after McNeil, it should be for our lower level pieces. Only add to ML right now, no subtracting, that already happens via FA etc

[Balta1701]

16 minutes ago, bmags said:

I agree with this, trying to balance at the major league level is a fools errand. If we go after McNeil, it should be for our lower level pieces. Only add to ML right now, no subtracting, that already happens via FA etc

I am struggling to see how you get a player like this with the lower level pieces available in the White Sox’s organization.

What’s the going rate for a guy with a 5 WAR season and on pace for a 4.5 WAR season with 3 years of control and a down season with some injuries? It’s rare enough that there’s no perfect comparison, but you’re typically talking about more than 1 top 100 prospect for that. Again not a perfect comparison, but think of the Quintana deal - 3.5 years of control, previous 5 win season, numbers trending downwards, brought back Eloy and Dylan. Or if Moncada hadn’t signed that contract extension and the White Sox tried to trade him after 2020 (3 years of control left, previous 5 win season, bad year due to illness) without bringing back any top prospects, we would have all been stunned.

We discussed a page ago whether there was a bigger mechanical issue with him, and maybe other teams see that and it suppresses bidding, but in the context of other 5 WAR players traded with that much control even Crochet as a headliner seems weak without another strong prospect.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I am struggling to see how you get a player like this with the lower level pieces available in the White Sox’s organization.

What’s the going rate for a guy with a 5 WAR season and on pace for a 4.5 WAR season with 3 years of control and a down season with some injuries? It’s rare enough that there’s no perfect comparison, but you’re typically talking about more than 1 top 100 prospect for that. Again not a perfect comparison, but think of the Quintana deal - 3.5 years of control, previous 5 win season, numbers trending downwards, brought back Eloy and Dylan. Or if Moncada hadn’t signed that contract extension and the White Sox tried to trade him after 2020 (3 years of control left, previous 5 win season, bad year due to illness) without bringing back any top prospects, we would have all been stunned.

We discussed a page ago whether there was a bigger mechanical issue with him, and maybe other teams see that and it suppresses bidding, but in the context of other 5 WAR players traded with that much control even Crochet as a headliner seems weak without another strong prospect.

I'd be fine with Crochet I think given the way we handled him and what his future will likely be (reliever).

[bmags]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I am struggling to see how you get a player like this with the lower level pieces available in the White Sox’s organization.

What’s the going rate for a guy with a 5 WAR season and on pace for a 4.5 WAR season with 3 years of control and a down season with some injuries? It’s rare enough that there’s no perfect comparison, but you’re typically talking about more than 1 top 100 prospect for that. Again not a perfect comparison, but think of the Quintana deal - 3.5 years of control, previous 5 win season, numbers trending downwards, brought back Eloy and Dylan. Or if Moncada hadn’t signed that contract extension and the White Sox tried to trade him after 2020 (3 years of control left, previous 5 win season, bad year due to illness) without bringing back any top prospects, we would have all been stunned.

We discussed a page ago whether there was a bigger mechanical issue with him, and maybe other teams see that and it suppresses bidding, but in the context of other 5 WAR players traded with that much control even Crochet as a headliner seems weak without another strong prospect.

Yeah the Sox may lose out. But teams looking for a sick return don’t usually sell a guy after their worst years. Especially for back end pitching when there is still plenty in FA. It’s all very stupid from their side, but Sox should explore it including 3 way to the few teams not expecting to compete.

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I'd be fine with Crochet I think given the way we handled him and what his future will likely be (reliever).

I’m torn.  I’d hate to give up Crochet, but a Crochet level reliever is probably easier to find again than a guy like McNeil that fits this teams needs like a glove.  It’s a tough call but a move I’d probably make. 

[bmags]

18 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I’m torn.  I’d hate to give up Crochet, but a Crochet level reliever is probably easier to find again than a guy like McNeil that fits this teams needs like a glove.  It’s a tough call but a move I’d probably make. 

The problem is you don’t always find them when you need them. Sox need a great bullpen. If Hendriks goes down, it’s easy to see ours becoming a problem if we trade out crochet too.

[SCCWS]

8 minutes ago, bmags said:

The problem is you don’t always find them when you need them. Sox need a great bullpen. If Hendriks goes down, it’s easy to see ours becoming a problem if we trade out crochet too.

You could be right, but also having a hole again at 2nd base is also a problem.  I think the FO has a good feeling of where Crochet fits in to the present pitching staff assuming Kimbrel is gone somewhere. So the risk of trading Crochet should be weighed against the benefit of adding McNeil. But also some have said just Crochet may not be enough. 

[ChiSox59]

16 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

Continuing to subtract valuable long-term pieces from the big league roster to (theoretically) make the 2022 team better is a great way to just shorten your window. If Kimbrel and prospects with non 2022 ETA's aren't enough to get a deal done (it probably isn't), then the Sox should look elsewhere.

Who exactly are these valuable long term pieces?  There isn't a prospect in Sox top 10, besides maybe Montgomery, I wouldn't trade in a heartbeat to improve this team. 

Subtracting from the MLB team - ie: Vaughn and to a lesser extent Crochet, and all the other obvious names (Kopech, Eloy, etc.), are a different story.  

I want to expand this window as much as possible as well.  But we're past prospect hoarding days.  We barely have any of note to begin with - no prospect should be off limits to improve the club as much as someone like McNeil would. This excludes the names in the 2nd paragraph, but I probably would part with Crochet for McNeil, but would certainly try to get him without including Crochet first.  Just don't really see a realistic fit. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by ChiSox59

[bmags]

11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Who exactly are these valuable long term pieces?  There isn't a prospect in Sox top 10, besides maybe Montgomery, I wouldn't trade in a heartbeat to improve this team. 

Subtracting from the MLB team - ie: Vaughn and to a lesser extent Crochet, and all the other obvious names (Kopech, Eloy, etc.), are a different story.  

I want to expand this window as much as possible as well.  But we're past prospect hoarding days.  We barely have any of note to begin with - no prospect should be off limits to improve the club as much as someone like McNeil would. This excludes the names in the 2nd paragraph, but I probably would part with Crochet for McNeil, but would certainly try to get him without including Crochet first.  Just don't really see a realistic fit. 

I think the poster that said "they are more likely to offload davis" makes a lot more sense. But I would add "we are going to trade McNeil for major league pitching" is kind of a dumb idea so I just don't put that much weight into it. They could just take prospects and then mix the new prospects with their own for a better pitcher.