2022 Catch All

[Texsox]

I agree they made it worse. The victim of the original crime shouldn't have retrieved another gun and started shooting. He's protecting property. He's now a criminal for shooting. Same with C. 

Now my scenarios. Your child is calling for help while watching classmates being murdered? Teacher with a gun or phone?

Movie theater shooter standing over your wife about to shoot, do you want a gun or no gun? 

That's part of the challenge here. There are an unlimited number of scenarios that make sense for either side. 

My #1 scenario is no one, good, bad, civilian, or cop has a gun, but that isn't happening in my lifetime. My reality is a responsibility to protect my students. 

 

 

 

[Texsox]

Here are the real challenges and the ones that have filled my head for a week.

I'm in my classroom. The door is locked and blocked by a metal bookcase, a file cabinet, and desks (we've practiced this). Someone is working hard to get in. If I'm armed do I wait for them to get inside and shoot before I use my weapon? Currently I'm unarmed and basically about to die. Can I save anyone? Our training is to fight. How many bodies pile up? 

Or a situation on the other wall. Three big windows that if broken you could easily step through. Someone is breaking the window to gain access. Is it a good guy there to sneak us out through a courtyard then through the building or a bad guy trying to kill us? What do I do? 

Whether I like it or not the reality is my classroom could be next. 

 

[southsider2k5]

33 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I agree they made it worse. The victim of the original crime shouldn't have retrieved another gun and started shooting. He's protecting property. He's now a criminal for shooting. Same with C. 

Now my scenarios. Your child is calling for help while watching classmates being murdered? Teacher with a gun or phone?

Movie theater shooter standing over your wife about to shoot, do you want a gun or no gun? 

That's part of the challenge here. There are an unlimited number of scenarios that make sense for either side. 

My #1 scenario is no one, good, bad, civilian, or cop has a gun, but that isn't happening in my lifetime. My reality is a responsibility to protect my students. 

 

 

 

So is it more likely you stop a school shooting, or that a kid steals your gun and uses it against you?  Is it more likely that you stop a school shooting, or you get shot by police who don't know you are a good guy?  Is it more likely that you mistakenly shoot the wrong person in a chaotic situation, or that you execute a perfect military precision kill that even the police didn't seem to want to go in and do?  Is it more likely you shoot someone because you mistakenly feel threatened, or because you get a bad guy with a gun situation?

Look it is easy to play the "what if's", but statistically your scenario is WAY less likely than any of these above.

It's like me saying what do I want, to go to work every day for the next 20 years, or have my crappy crypto meme coin to to $10 a token so I am a billionaire.  I know what I would rather have, but I also know what the odds of both circumstances are.

[Middle Buffalo]

The solution for our societal gun problem probably isn’t “more guns.”  Maybe limit the types of guns that can be sold to average citizens? 

[Middle Buffalo]

4 hours ago, greg775 said:

If I'm not allowed to address this, delete my post. Without any comment, just answer the question pls.

Elon Musk yay or nay? I'll go with Yay.

Johnny Depp yay or nay? I'll go with Yay.

Bill Maher yay or nay? I'll go with Yay

And Howard Stern yay or nay? I'll go with yay. Peace mid week day.

Nay - Nay - Nay - Yay.

I’ll give Joe Rogan and Donald Trump Nays, also. You didn’t ask, but you were thinking it.

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

So is it more likely you stop a school shooting, or that a kid steals your gun and uses it against you?  Is it more likely that you stop a school shooting, or you get shot by police who don't know you are a good guy?  Is it more likely that you mistakenly shoot the wrong person in a chaotic situation, or that you execute a perfect military precision kill that even the police didn't seem to want to go in and do?  Is it more likely you shoot someone because you mistakenly feel threatened, or because you get a bad guy with a gun situation?

Look it is easy to play the "what if's", but statistically your scenario is WAY less likely than any of these above.

It's like me saying what do I want, to go to work every day for the next 20 years, or have my crappy crypto meme coin to to $10 a token so I am a billionaire.  I know what I would rather have, but I also know what the odds of both circumstances are.

For the record ten days ago I would have agreed 100% with you. I expressed those exact same reservations.

 

I believe both scenarios are highly unlikely. A kid will steal a gun from a family member or obtain it away from school. The kid would have much more time and possibility away from school. Are the cops in your school district armed? Do you want them disarmed? 

Sadly your second question has much different answers based on the person holding the gun. I'm not pulling my gun unless my life is threatened. So would I rather take my chance with a criminal trying to kill me or a police officer? I'll save my life first, then worry about the cop. 

If your child was calling you while  her classmates were getting murdered do you want the teacher to have a gun? That was reality last week. Kids huddled with their teacher begging for help that wasn't coming. As a parent what do you want? So far I've asked that three times and you ignored the question.  Scary thought isn't it? 

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Middle Buffalo said:

The solution for our societal gun problem probably isn’t “more guns.”  Maybe limit the types of guns that can be sold to average citizens? 

I could see limiting the type of guns that can be sold to average citizens. No rapid fire machine gun gizmos that are in the news today. The problem with this ... the bad guys will get the rapid fire guns. They just will. Only way the good guys have a chance is to also own those guns and/or have 'em available. Blame the gangs folks. And fewer bad guys will be going to jail in the future cause of Soros DA's. Heaven help us all. At this rate in 20 years we're looking at a very very war torn USA. This summer is starting off so violently. Not just the normal 30 or so deaths per weekend in Chicago, but Tulsa had a mass shooting Wednesday at ahospital. They are in the news constantly now.

[Texsox]

Civilized countries ban those weapons and buy back those weapons at a premium. The challenge here in the US is there are so many and a buy back program will barely put a dent in the total. People would hoard them. 

I remember back when Obama was first elected the AR-15 type weapons shot up 50% on the used market. Everyone was buying ahead of what was expected to be a ban. 

I just hope those that own them will respond like Ukrainians if we're ever attacked. I'll admit I always laughed at the notion ordinary citizens could hold off an Army. Now maybe I was wrong. 

 

[greg775]

21 hours ago, Texsox said:

For the record ten days ago I would have agreed 100% with you. I expressed those exact same reservations.

 

I believe both scenarios are highly unlikely. A kid will steal a gun from a family member or obtain it away from school. The kid would have much more time and possibility away from school. Are the cops in your school district armed? Do you want them disarmed? 

Sadly your second question has much different answers based on the person holding the gun. I'm not pulling my gun unless my life is threatened. So would I rather take my chance with a criminal trying to kill me or a police officer? I'll save my life first, then worry about the cop. 

If your child was calling you while  her classmates were getting murdered do you want the teacher to have a gun? That was reality last week. Kids huddled with their teacher begging for help that wasn't coming. As a parent what do you want? So far I've asked that three times and you ignored the question.  Scary thought isn't it? 

The teachers must be armed in a perfect world. Paid training for use of guns. However if they refuse, that's OK, too. Try to get them an assistant who is armed.

[greg775]

9 hours ago, Texsox said:

Civilized countries ban those weapons and buy back those weapons at a premium. The challenge here in the US is there are so many and a buy back program will barely put a dent in the total. People would hoard them. 

I remember back when Obama was first elected the AR-15 type weapons shot up 50% on the used market. Everyone was buying ahead of what was expected to be a ban. 

I just hope those that own them will respond like Ukrainians if we're ever attacked. I'll admit I always laughed at the notion ordinary citizens could hold off an Army. Now maybe I was wrong. 

 

The far left has made it clear. They want no guns. It's the latest topic in which they scream over everybody else. We must have guns cause anybody with a functioning brain does not trust the people in charge. Not trying to be political here, but does anybody really think the people in charge in chicago care if u get carjacked or home invaded? You must be armed in a perfect world. If they come after our guns in the USA there will be war. Nobody who has an arsenal down south is gonna give up their guns as well as other parts of the USA. FOR PROTECTION! Our officials are not protecting us people. This is all very sad but true.

My friend in Dallas does not have a gun yet but all his pals do, he told me. They ain't turning them in.

Edited June 2, 2022 by greg775

[Tony]

15 minutes ago, greg775 said:

The teachers must be armed in a perfect world. Paid training for use of guns. However if they refuse, that's OK, too. Try to get them an assistant who is armed.

What a sad, twisted statement. 

[Texsox]

34 minutes ago, greg775 said:

The teachers must be armed in a perfect world. Paid training for use of guns. However if they refuse, that's OK, too. Try to get them an assistant who is armed.

We have two armed police officers on our campus of 2,700 students. We probably should double that. We could also look into school marshalls. The School Marshall program in Texas trains teachers to backup the police officers in an active shooter scenario. 

From what I learned any weapons are locked in a gun safe and only taken out if there is an intruder on campus. That's probably safer than the guns that police have holstered but unlocked. Obviously being locked in a safe isn't ideal if a shooter is in campus, but balances the safety issues of more guns on campus. 

My teacher organization reported that there may be a district or two that has open carry marshalls on campus. They believe all had prior military police or civilian police experience before becoming teachers. 

From the looks of it districts that have allowed the marshall program into their schools are all rural and most did not have their own police departments. They generally only allow one or two per campus. 

[southsider2k5]

22 hours ago, Texsox said:

For the record ten days ago I would have agreed 100% with you. I expressed those exact same reservations.

 

I believe both scenarios are highly unlikely. A kid will steal a gun from a family member or obtain it away from school. The kid would have much more time and possibility away from school. Are the cops in your school district armed? Do you want them disarmed? 

Sadly your second question has much different answers based on the person holding the gun. I'm not pulling my gun unless my life is threatened. So would I rather take my chance with a criminal trying to kill me or a police officer? I'll save my life first, then worry about the cop. 

If your child was calling you while  her classmates were getting murdered do you want the teacher to have a gun? That was reality last week. Kids huddled with their teacher begging for help that wasn't coming. As a parent what do you want? So far I've asked that three times and you ignored the question.  Scary thought isn't it? 

I think their teachers getting slaughtered by police officers wouldn't really help the situation, but maybe that is just me.

[southsider2k5]

36 minutes ago, greg775 said:

The teachers must be armed in a perfect world. Paid training for use of guns. However if they refuse, that's OK, too. Try to get them an assistant who is armed.

This is literal insanity.

[Texsox]

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think their teachers getting slaughtered by police officers wouldn't really help the situation, but maybe that is just me.

I think teachers getting slaughtered by anyone wouldn't help. I know that's both of us. 

 School marshalls in Texas are a recognized police presence on campus, most often at campuses that have no other police. Local police train with the school marshals on a regular basis. It's basically having an undercover cop on campus. It's kind of crappy some schools have to combine being the campus cop and teaching a class. 

In most school shootings multiple agencies respond. Some in very recognizable uniforms, some off duty. Shooters are wearing police looking tactical equipment. It's already chaos. 

So if your child is watching her classmates get murdered, do you want a school marshal on campus or no one? 

 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I think teachers getting slaughtered by anyone wouldn't help. I know that's both of us. 

 School marshalls in Texas are a recognized police presence on campus, most often at campuses that have no other police. Local police train with the school marshals on a regular basis. It's basically having an undercover cop on campus. It's kind of crappy some schools have to combine being the campus cop and teaching a class. 

In most school shootings multiple agencies respond. Some in very recognizable uniforms, some off duty. Shooters are wearing police looking tactical equipment. It's already chaos. 

So if your child is watching her classmates get murdered, do you want a school marshal on campus or no one? 

 

We have armed police officers at our HS and MS.  They are available for the Elems as needed.  I am OK with that.  They are uniformed and easily recognizable.

[Texsox]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

We have armed police officers at our HS and MS.  They are available for the Elems as needed.  I am OK with that.  They are uniformed and easily recognizable.

Same set up as Robb Elementary. 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Same set up as Robb Elementary. 

I know it sounds bad, but as a little more urban of a school, I think there are more fears about kids having guns than at most schools, so there is a little more of an edge to things.  Will that stop things?  No, but the GOP gun cult has made sure that all mass murders are well armed while doing it.

[Texsox]

We have over 100 schools and a police force I have a lot of faith in. We're bigger, better equipped, and better trained than most regular police departments around the country. 

But sadly that's not the case elsewhere. It makes sense to focus on the 99.99% of the school situations by deploying your cops at middle school and high school where the risk of violence from within is greatest. Most elementary students aren't violent. 

Having a trained marshall on campus seems reasonable. Having a teacher slaughtered by a police officer is bad, but they wouldn't be out there if their or other's lives weren't already at risk. I don't see the situation as everyone being safe and a marshall unlocks their gun. I see the choice as getting murdered or watching others be murdered or unlocking your gun. 

If I was a marshall, I'd be hanging with the local police and not missing any trainings so they recognize me.

[Texsox]

@southsider2k5 The GOP gun culture is more at the politician donor level than the individual voter level ( although there are folks on the extreme). Most current or former GOP folks I know support some common sense (to me) changes. Raise the age to buy to 21. Limit magazine sizes. Federal background checks. Limits on advertising. I'd like to see the assault weapon ban reinstated, but I'm not getting my hopes up. 

 

 

[greg775]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

Most current or former GOP folks I know support some common sense (to me) changes. Raise the age to buy to 21. Limit magazine sizes. Federal background checks. Limits on advertising. I'd like to see the assault weapon ban reinstated, but I'm not getting my hopes up. 

 

 

Like u wrote ... I support raising age to 21. Yes limit magazine sizes. Yes background checks. Don't think the advertising matters in the era of violent video games.

I'd keep the assault weapons legal just in case things really get bad in society. It's already bad enough with home invasions and carjackings and random assaults on big city streets.

If the government turns on the people, the people need weapons. If food shortages come or the Chinese hit our grid, gosh yes regular people may need weapons and a lot of 'em. Right now there's a war going on in Ukraine, the world is totally on edge. China is warning us to not interfere with whatever they do (Taiwan) in any way. The economy according to some is close to an historic collapse. WIthout guns, citizens could be in deep trouble someday. Concerns me cause I have no guns.

[CentralChamps21]

9 hours ago, greg775 said:

If the government turns on the people, the people need weapons.

The government has tanks and cruise missiles. If the government turns on the people, assault weapons won't help.

[Tony]

3 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

The government has tanks and cruise missiles. If the government turns on the people, assault weapons won't help.

Always have loved that argument. Mass shootings are OK and something we just have to "live with" because if the government ever turns on the citizens, my AR-15 is going to stop it from happening....

Really? That's the argument? You're telling me that if the US government completely goes rogue and starts coming after citizens with force, they are going to be so unprepared that you're going to be able to stop them because you have a gun in your house? That insane theory is why we can't have reasonable gun control in this country? 

[Big Hurtin]

3 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

The government has tanks and cruise missiles. If the government turns on the people, assault weapons won't help.

and drones, and the ability to track your comings and goings...

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, Tony said:

Always have loved that argument. Mass shootings are OK and something we just have to "live with" because if the government ever turns on the citizens, my AR-15 is going to stop it from happening....

Really? That's the argument? You're telling me that if the US government completely goes rogue and starts coming after citizens with force, they are going to be so unprepared that you're going to be able to stop them because you have a gun in your house? That insane theory is why we can't have reasonable gun control in this country? 

And before Ukraine gets mentioned, Ukraine is still standing because they are a modern military, and the US + Europe are supplying them even more modern military hardware.