Texsox Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 Most everyone here lives in a city or large suburb with police forces that in theory can respond in minutes. Gun advocates are strongest in rural areas where the response could be hours. People there need to be self reliant. I'm also thinking of a real estate agent who spends time in vacant properties with strangers. She feels better carrying and would quit immediately if she couldn't. I'm thinking of a trucker who necessarily sleeps in remote locations and had a gun safe installed in his sleeper. I have a lot of friends and family who own guns of all sorts. They are good, law abiding, people who have managed for decades to never break a law. They have all the same jobs as posters here. The same hopes and dreams. They grieve for victims just like non gun owners. I know we can do better. Demonizing all gun owners doesn't really help. Many even vote Democratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 53 minutes ago, Texsox said: Most everyone here lives in a city or large suburb with police forces that in theory can respond in minutes. Gun advocates are strongest in rural areas where the response could be hours. People there need to be self reliant. I'm also thinking of a real estate agent who spends time in vacant properties with strangers. She feels better carrying and would quit immediately if she couldn't. I'm thinking of a trucker who necessarily sleeps in remote locations and had a gun safe installed in his sleeper. I have a lot of friends and family who own guns of all sorts. They are good, law abiding, people who have managed for decades to never break a law. They have all the same jobs as posters here. The same hopes and dreams. They grieve for victims just like non gun owners. I know we can do better. Demonizing all gun owners doesn't really help. Many even vote Democratic. That's a far-right talking point. I really don't see people demonizing "anyone" who owns a gun. My best man in my wedding is more liberal than I am, and he has a gun at home because he lives on Belmont in Avondale and wants to be sure he can protect his family from someone that shouldn't be in his home. I understand that. I don't think he's wrong. He also acquired the gun the right way, took training with it, and his hope is he never fires his gun. He's not playing with it or showing it off, he'll be happy if it stays locked in the secure location for his entire life. There are very few serious people that are saying ban all guns. There are more saying "Stop gun shows where a private owner can sell a gun to a 14 year old." or "Stop an owner from having a collection like these: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Texsox said: I know we can do better. Demonizing all gun owners doesn't really help. Nobody is being demonized for being a gun owner. They're being demonized for being a gun owner with really bad takes on gun rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Texsox said: Gun advocates are strongest in rural areas where the response could be hours. People there need to be self reliant. I'm also thinking of a real estate agent who spends time in vacant properties with strangers. She feels better carrying and would quit immediately if she couldn't. I'm thinking of a trucker who necessarily sleeps in remote locations and had a gun safe installed in his sleeper. I hear very, very few people saying that nobody should own guns at all. Mostly the far, far, far, far left types. Since I've never owned or even held a gun, I have a serious question: Is there any realistic situation that the real estate agent or the trucker could ever be in where a gun with 30 rounds will sufficiently protect them but a gun with 10 rounds won't? (if the numbers 30 and 10 don't represent actual numbers of rounds that get fired by guns, then substitute the right numbers as needed). I imagine if someone breaks into my house and has a gun, if I haven't hit him in the first 10 shots (if not sooner) he's probably killed me by then. It seems to me that if we 1) raise the age to buy to 21 (possibly with some sort of process to get an exemption if a specific situation warrants) 2) limit the number of rounds a gun can fire 3) ban body armor and tactical helmets 4) have comprehensive background checks that are required before a purchase can be made and 5) have thorough red flag laws, then law-abiding people without a mental illness won't have their rights infringed in the least. Edited June 3, 2022 by CentralChamps21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 6 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said: The government has tanks and cruise missiles. If the government turns on the people, assault weapons won't help. Yeah, but a lot of things could happen before the government decided to blow up cities/neighborhoods which means it would be prudent to have some weapons. Thing is, it could get bad and people might need to defend themselves from roaming gangs if there are food shortages if the grid gets hit. The way things are going in society with all the violent crimes out there not being prosecuted, anything's possible once the grid gets hit and the economy completely crashes to great depression like status and the baby formula shortage turns into major shortages of all products which some people are suggestion could all happen at some point if this downward spiral continues ... The bottom line is with society in a downward trend concerning murder in big cities, those with guns are probably a smart lot of people for having them. ... I have no guns but I can see why some people do. Hell, I've even heard those commercials about buying food supplies that last years on legitimate radio shows. Used to be conspiracy theory stuff not shown on legit radio/TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Texsox said: Most everyone here lives in a city or large suburb with police forces that in theory can respond in minutes. Gun advocates are strongest in rural areas where the response could be hours. People there need to be self reliant. I'm also thinking of a real estate agent who spends time in vacant properties with strangers. She feels better carrying and would quit immediately if she couldn't. I'm thinking of a trucker who necessarily sleeps in remote locations and had a gun safe installed in his sleeper. I have a lot of friends and family who own guns of all sorts. They are good, law abiding, people who have managed for decades to never break a law. They have all the same jobs as posters here. The same hopes and dreams. They grieve for victims just like non gun owners. I know we can do better. Demonizing all gun owners doesn't really help. Many even vote Democratic. Texsox with a slam dunk/home run post. People need to be armed for zillions of reasons and Tex knows them. Edited June 3, 2022 by greg775 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said: It seems to me that if we 1) raise the age to buy to 21 (possibly with some sort of process to get an exemption if a specific situation warrants) 2) limit the number of rounds a gun can fire 3) ban body armor and tactical helmets 4) have comprehensive background checks that are required before a purchase can be made and 5) have thorough red flag laws, then law-abiding people without a mental illness won't have their rights infringed in the least. I'd be OK with all of these rules regarding gun ownership. these rules in theory could help and I would vote for them. However devil's advocate would say there are so many assault weapons out there now that any nutjob killer will have no problem arming himself to commit atrocities. Black market guns will always be available. ... And gangs are laughing I'm sure. They have their guns and can get more and big city mayors have no intention of stopping gang murders. But I can agree to these rules you mentioned. The body armor/tactical helmets one is iffy cause Antifa members already have all that stuff and the regular citizen probably should have the right to be able to get that stuff too. Edited June 3, 2022 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 minute ago, greg775 said: Yeah, but a lot of things could happen before the government decided to blow up cities/neighborhoods which means it would be prudent to have some weapons. Thing is, it could get bad and people might need to defend themselves from roaming gangs if there are food shortages if the grid gets hit. The way things are going in society with all the violent crimes out there not being prosecuted, anything's possible once the grid gets hit and the economy completely crashes to great depression like status and the baby formula shortage turns into major shortages of all products which some people are suggestion could all happen at some point if this downward spiral continues ... The bottom line is with society in a downward trend concerning murder in big cities, those with guns are probably a smart lot of people for having them. ... I have no guns but I can see why some people do. Hell, I've even heard those commercials about buying food supplies that last years on legitimate radio shows. Used to be conspiracy theory stuff not shown on legit radio/TV. You lived through the cold war and you can't recall this kind of stuff happening before? The 60's and 70's had incredibly higher crime rates and gun crimes then as well. You don't remember bomb shelters and hoarding for those? These are the things that make people wonder how much of this is an act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralChamps21 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, greg775 said: Black market guns will always be available. ... Substitute abortion, marijuana, or anything else whose legality is debated and the same argument gets made. What people fail to realize is that in every case, making something illegal makes it harder to get than if it's legal, and a certain percentage will not succeed or just not try if it's illegal. Also, right now the guns are legal to manufacture, so once you shut down the manufacturers, supply starts to get scarce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Texsox said: Most everyone here lives in a city or large suburb with police forces that in theory can respond in minutes. Gun advocates are strongest in rural areas where the response could be hours. People there need to be self reliant. I'm also thinking of a real estate agent who spends time in vacant properties with strangers. She feels better carrying and would quit immediately if she couldn't. I'm thinking of a trucker who necessarily sleeps in remote locations and had a gun safe installed in his sleeper. I have a lot of friends and family who own guns of all sorts. They are good, law abiding, people who have managed for decades to never break a law. They have all the same jobs as posters here. The same hopes and dreams. They grieve for victims just like non gun owners. I know we can do better. Demonizing all gun owners doesn't really help. Many even vote Democratic. Imagine if we applied this to everything. -People are going to get drugs anyways, so let's make everything legal and just completely remove all rules, regulations and tracking around it. Demonizing drug users doesn't really help. Many of them even vote Republican. -People are going to get abortions anyways, so abortions for any age legal, so everyone can be safe. Demonizing unwanted motherhood doesn't really help. Many of them even vote Republican. -People are going to speed anyways, so let's remove all road safety laws such as speed limits, licenses, road tests, lane usage restrictions. Demonizing drivers doesn't really help. Many of them even vote Republican. -People are going to pollute anyways, so let's remove all environmental regulations and let people do whatever they want with their property so everyone is equal. Demonizing polluters doesn't really help. Many of them even vote Republican. -People are going to shoplift anyways, so let's remove all financial oversight and regulations, so everyone has the equal opportunity to protect their own finances. Demonizing theives doesn't really help. Many of them even vote Republican. -The North Koreans have a nuclear bomb program, so let's declassify every military grade weapon out there and legalize them so that a 14 year can nuke a school shooter or 3rd world dictator if threatened. Demonizing dictaors doesn't really help. Many of them even vote Republican. -If life begins as conception, then they should have all of the legal rights of being alive. Get those fetus's life insurance, food stamps, welfare, guns just in case someone wants to abort them, minimum wage jobs, schooling, etc. Demonizing the unborn doesn't really help. Many of them even vote Republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: You lived through the cold war and you can't recall this kind of stuff happening before? The 60's and 70's had incredibly higher crime rates and gun crimes then as well. You don't remember bomb shelters and hoarding for those? These are the things that make people wonder how much of this is an act. I do remember some of this, never as bad as today. I remember the days decades ago when NYC was very dangerous. I remember my dad had to go to NYC for business and the family all worried about him going there to be in a very very dangerous city so to speak. I do remember fear in our household of his trip to NYC. Then NYC got cleaned up to where it was very safe til recently. I do not EVER recall Chicago being known as a very very dangerous place with its weekend murders and carjackings and home invasions an actual serious problem (now there were serious riots under Daley for the convention that Chicago will never live down). I don't live there anymore but I have tons of relatives and friends in Chicago who are afraid, flat out afraid. One successful businessperson who lives near downtown is not afraid, but prepared for when he gets assaulted, not if. ... I do recall some of the bomb shelter talk many moons ago, but again don't remember it being a very legit topic. Just seems much much worse now in all regards, so much I think any person, especially ones in big cities, need to think about having guns for self defense/family protection. For school shootings ... I would be in favor of armed guards at schools and allowing teachers to be armed, but frankly it's not just schools. What about churches, stores, concerts sporting events, seems to me there are too many places where mass shootings can take place. It's scary. But I doubt I'll ever get a gun. I have to hope society wises up at some point and becomes kind again. Edited June 3, 2022 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said: Substitute abortion, marijuana, or anything else whose legality is debated and the same argument gets made. What people fail to realize is that in every case, making something illegal makes it harder to get than if it's legal, and a certain percentage will not succeed or just not try if it's illegal. Also, right now the guns are legal to manufacture, so once you shut down the manufacturers, supply starts to get scarce. I can buy all this. Good post IMO. ... Do u agree with me at least the gangs are laughing? They got their guns; they got their ammo. They are pretty much set. But I hear you and tend to think it'd overall be a good thing if guns were harder to get. I do fear those who already have the guns/ammo tho. they are ruthless and do not care about human life of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said: I hear very, very few people saying that nobody should own guns at all. Mostly the far, far, far, far left types. Since I've never owned or even held a gun, I have a serious question: Is there any realistic situation that the real estate agent or the trucker could ever be in where a gun with 30 rounds will sufficiently protect them but a gun with 10 rounds won't? (if the numbers 30 and 10 don't represent actual numbers of rounds that get fired by guns, then substitute the right numbers as needed). I imagine if someone breaks into my house and has a gun, if I haven't hit him in the first 10 shots (if not sooner) he's probably killed me by then. It seems to me that if we 1) raise the age to buy to 21 (possibly with some sort of process to get an exemption if a specific situation warrants) 2) limit the number of rounds a gun can fire 3) ban body armor and tactical helmets 4) have comprehensive background checks that are required before a purchase can be made and 5) have thorough red flag laws, then law-abiding people without a mental illness won't have their rights infringed in the least. I agree with every point. My guess is 90% of Americans would agree. It's the bought and paid for politicians that have a problem with them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Tony said: That's a far-right talking point. I really don't see people demonizing "anyone" who owns a gun. My best man in my wedding is more liberal than I am, and he has a gun at home because he lives on Belmont in Avondale and wants to be sure he can protect his family from someone that shouldn't be in his home. I understand that. I don't think he's wrong. He also acquired the gun the right way, took training with it, and his hope is he never fires his gun. He's not playing with it or showing it off, he'll be happy if it stays locked in the secure location for his entire life. There are very few serious people that are saying ban all guns. There are more saying "Stop gun shows where a private owner can sell a gun to a 14 year old." or "Stop an owner from having a collection like these: That looks like a red flag to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 39 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said: Substitute abortion, marijuana, or anything else whose legality is debated and the same argument gets made. What people fail to realize is that in every case, making something illegal makes it harder to get than if it's legal, and a certain percentage will not succeed or just not try if it's illegal. Also, right now the guns are legal to manufacture, so once you shut down the manufacturers, supply starts to get scarce. I think an even better point is once something is illegal the police can take action. Like that picture posted earlier making it illegal allows the police to confiscate and arrest the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 What's crazy to me is Chicago has almost double the murders of Houston despite very similar populations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, Texsox said: What's crazy to me is Chicago has almost double the murders of Houston despite very similar populations. The funny part is that per population, Chicago is 28th in the nation for murder rate. For the record, it is impressive how much of the top are in the Republican deep south, such as Birmingham, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, and Memphis. Also just down the list are two cities in Texas of Dallas and Beaumont. The murder rate in Chicago is 18.26/100,000. In Dallas it is 14.89/100,000. In 2021, Austin had their deadliest year in almost 20 years. Why everyone thinks this is a Chicago problem is really obvious, but no one wants to acknowledge it. https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/38/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 I was expecting the major Texas cities to have a much higher rate than Chicago. I'm a little shocked by some of the cities on the list. Peoria? I didn't see that one coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 5 hours ago, Texsox said: What's crazy to me is Chicago has almost double the murders of Houston despite very similar populations. Does Houston arrest, charge and throw bad guys in prison? My guess is yes. Got to be a deterrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 5, 2022 Author Share Posted June 5, 2022 https://www.newsweek.com/texas-donors-gop-gov-abbott-sign-letter-backing-gun-control-measures-1712900 It's a humble start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Good ol fashioned summer fun in Chicago. It's why if you live in certain cities you must carry. https://patch.com/illinois/beverly-mtgreenwood/2-armed-robberies-reported-mt-greenwood-witnesses-describe-teens?utm_term=article-slot-1&utm_source=newsletter-daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 39 minutes ago, greg775 said: Good ol fashioned summer fun in Chicago. It's why if you live in certain cities you must carry. https://patch.com/illinois/beverly-mtgreenwood/2-armed-robberies-reported-mt-greenwood-witnesses-describe-teens?utm_term=article-slot-1&utm_source=newsletter-daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter Especially if you live in Lawrence! https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/2-dead-in-shooting-at-hy-vee-in-lawrence-tuesday-night 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 Or Philadelphia https://news4sanantonio.com/news/nation-world/doordash-driver-taken-into-custody-after-allegedly-shooting-chick-fil-a-employee That will teach the _#&+ kid to forget my mother f---ing milkshake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 On 6/7/2022 at 10:34 PM, greg775 said: Good ol fashioned summer fun in Chicago. It's why if you live in certain cities you must carry. https://patch.com/illinois/beverly-mtgreenwood/2-armed-robberies-reported-mt-greenwood-witnesses-describe-teens?utm_term=article-slot-1&utm_source=newsletter-daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter These guys were caught by the CPD father of one of the kids robbed. If your goal is to steal a cell phone, don't do it in Mt Greenwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts