bmags Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 16 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Here is the thing about Levine. He gets inside info on a regular basis. For whatever reason he rarely discloses it. I am guessing the reason he said something here was to signal either to fans the Sox had plans, or to signal to Conforto's camp that they want to talk quickly once all of this is done. The reason I feel like Bruce gets info is if you listen to him talk AFTER news comes out he supplements that news with information that could have only know if he was in the know ahead of time. He has details that weren't previously public. But as is most of the Chicago media, he is well trained to keep his mouth shut until it is time. Or Levine doesn’t know who the hell they are talking about when they tell him and it takes him weeks to catch up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: To be fair, they probably wouldn’t have traded for Lynn either if they already had Wheeler. They traded for Lynn with Keuchel coming off a sub 2.00 ERA season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 41 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I fully agree we need to add a starter, but that will likely have to come via trade. If so, zero reason we can’t afford both plus a 2B. My guess is we trade for someone from the A’s, Reds, or Marlins and those guys have reasonable salaries. Yeah that would be fine. I think a good starter will cost more than you suspected in the other thread. I don't think a quantity package will get you Bassitt. You're probably not going to get a fringe TOR starter (even with only 1 year left of control) without parting with Vaughn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 30 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: They traded for Lynn with Keuchel coming off a sub 2.00 ERA season. As much as I like Lance Lynn, and think he will be a huge part of the Sox hopefully winning the division in 2022. His playoff track record is very mediocre, and it's not just a few games. And his performances against Houston are even worse. We probably need to assume the Sox will have to go through the Astros to get to the World Series. That is one of the main reasons I want a TOR starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 26 minutes ago, Sarava said: Yeah that would be fine. I think a good starter will cost more than you suspected in the other thread. I don't think a quantity package will get you Bassitt. You're probably not going to get a fringe TOR starter (even with only 1 year left of control) without parting with Vaughn. Vaughn is worth considerably more than a fringe TOR starter on a one year deal. We literally just acquired one year of Lance Lynn (a legit TOR) for Dane Dunning. Bassitt should come cheaper, especially when there are other teams with pitching to trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Vaughn is worth considerably more than a fringe TOR starter on a one year deal. We literally just acquired one year of Lance Lynn (a legit TOR) for Dane Dunning. Bassitt should come cheaper, especially when there are other teams with pitching to trade. Burger might be the bait we are using to snag a short-term TOR-type arm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: They traded for Lynn with Keuchel coming off a sub 2.00 ERA season. Thank goodness they did because Keuchel is garbage. Edited February 17, 2022 by Squirmin' for Yermin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 59 minutes ago, Sarava said: As much as I like Lance Lynn, and think he will be a huge part of the Sox hopefully winning the division in 2022. His playoff track record is very mediocre, and it's not just a few games. And his performances against Houston are even worse. We probably need to assume the Sox will have to go through the Astros to get to the World Series. That is one of the main reasons I want a TOR starter. If we can dump Kimbrel I really like the idea of signing Kershaw with the open money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Outside the box trade idea that will likely trigger this board but one worth discussing: Gavin Sheets + Dallas Keuchel to CIN for Sonny Gray + Mike Moustakas This trade adds ~$8M in salary in 2022 & ~$30M in 2023 assuming Gray’s team option is exercised. The assumption here is that Moustakas is used as part of a 2B platoon with Leury or Romy. Before I get completely laughed at, both OAA & UZR/150 had Moustakas as a slightly below average 2B defensively during his short stint there in 2019 & 2020 and that seems to be consistent with the scouting reports I’ve read. And regarding the bat, he had been 9% to 23% better than league average against RHP over his previous six seasons prior to 2021. Was last year an outlier due to a plantar fasciitis injury or the beginning of a steep downward trend? If my scouts & medical staff believe it’s the former and that he can still be adequate at 2B, then I think this is a move worth exploring. And just to be clear here, the focus is landing Gray while also dumping Keuchel. I’m not some huge Moustakas fan like Caulfield or Greg, but simply view acquiring him as a way to possibly kill three birds with one stone. And only taking on ~$8M in salary to address the rotation & 2B is a big plus if you’re also looking to add Conforto for RF. As for the Reds, yes they’d be leveraging Sonny Gray to dump Moustakas’ sizable contract ($34M remaining). Yes, they’d also be taking on Keuchel’s $18M salary for the year, but it’s only half of Moose’s and could possibly moved at the deadline with a rebound. Worse case he gives you some innings and then is released before his option is picked up. On the plus side, they get a major league ready bat that can slot in at DH and eventually replace Votto at 1B. BTV’s has this as a fair trade and while I think that tool is somewhat of a joke, I do feel like it’s a fairly even deal and one the Reds might accept. Whether it makes sense for the Sox is the bigger question, but still a very interesting proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, poppysox said: Burger might be the bait we are using to snag a short-term TOR-type arm. I’d bet considerable money that one of Burger or Sheets is dealt this offseason to address the rotation or 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’d bet considerable money that one of Burger or Sheets is dealt this offseason to address the rotation or 2B. I know it takes something to get something and Sheets will have a market with the National League getting the DH...but I really would want something good. Feels like when the Sox traded John Romano and Norm Cash for a 37-year-old Minnie Minoso. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Outside the box trade idea that will likely trigger this board but one worth discussing: Gavin Sheets + Dallas Keuchel to CIN for Sonny Gray + Mike Moustakas This trade adds ~$8M in salary in 2022 & ~$30M in 2023 assuming Gray’s team option is exercised. The assumption here is that Moustakas is used as part of a 2B platoon with Leury or Romy. Before I get completely laughed at, both OAA & UZR/150 had Moustakas as a slightly below average 2B defensively during his short stint there in 2019 & 2020 and that seems to be consistent with the scouting reports I’ve read. And regarding the bat, he had been 9% to 23% better than league average against RHP over his previous six seasons prior to 2021. Was last year an outlier due to a plantar fasciitis injury or the beginning of a steep downward trend? If my scouts & medical staff believe it’s the former and that he can still be adequate at 2B, then I think this is a move worth exploring. And just to be clear here, the focus is landing Gray while also dumping Keuchel. I’m not some huge Moustakas fan like Caulfield or Greg, but simply view acquiring him as a way to possibly kill three birds with one stone. And only taking on ~$8M in salary to address the rotation & 2B is a big plus if you’re also looking to add Conforto for RF. As for the Reds, yes they’d be leveraging Sonny Gray to dump Moustakas’ sizable contract ($34M remaining). Yes, they’d also be taking on Keuchel’s $18M salary for the year, but it’s only half of Moose’s and could possibly moved at the deadline with a rebound. Worse case he gives you some innings and then is released before his option is picked up. On the plus side, they get a major league ready bat that can slot in at DH and eventually replace Votto at 1B. BTV’s has this as a fair trade and while I think that tool is somewhat of a joke, I do feel like it’s a fairly even deal and one the Reds might accept. Whether it makes sense for the Sox is the bigger question, but still a very interesting proposal. To play my usual role…for 2023 on paper, assuming obvious things like Anderson’s option is picked up, this would put the White Sox’s payroll at about $195 million and their luxury tax number close to $210 million….without Jose Abreu. Good chance you can keep Abreu while staying below the tax line, but any other sizeable deals will put the White Sox well over even the Players’ union requested tax line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, Balta1701 said: To play my usual role…for 2023 on paper, assuming obvious things like Anderson’s option is picked up, this would put the White Sox’s payroll at about $195 million and their luxury tax number close to $210 million….without Jose Abreu. Good chance you can keep Abreu while staying below the tax line, but any other sizeable deals will put the White Sox well over even the Players’ union requested tax line. Is that including Conforto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Is that including Conforto? No. Conforto and Abreu plus taking on those deals would probably put the White Sox’s 2023 tax number close to $250 million. Obviously some things could change to tweak benefits or how contracts are calculated for this, but that’s so far into tax territory that it would be all but guaranteed they’d be over the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) I wouldn't trade for Moustakas unless the Reds were eating most of his deal, but it wouldn't surprise me if either Vaughn or Sheets or both show they are ready to play in 2022 that it will be Abreu's last year with the team. I know JR loves him, but he loves Robin Ventura and Mark Buehrle and Frank Thomas, and he let them walk. When it's time, it's time. Edited February 17, 2022 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 It blows my mind that any GM would give that kind of contract to Moustakis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I wouldn't trade for Moustakas unless the Reds were eating most of his deal, but it wouldn't surprise me if either Vaughn or Sheets or both show they are ready to play in 2022 that it will be Abreu's last year with the team. I know JR loves him, but he loves Robin Ventura and Mark Buehrle and Frank Thomas, and he let them walk. When it's time, it's time. But he also extended Paul Konerko into 2014 for a retirement party even when it was clear that his body was giving out in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: But he also extended Paul Konerko into 2014 for a retirement party even when it was clear that his body was giving out in 2013. Very different circumstance, and if you remember, in 2012 Paulie was hitting around .400 when he messed up his wrist, something the team characterized as no big deal. When he came back, he was never the same. There wasn't the #3 overall pick waiting to take his place, and Paulie played for $2.5 million. Abreu and Dunn were around. Paulie was clearly a back up. Edited February 17, 2022 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 10 hours ago, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said: Quit the Draft Picks BS. How many 2nd Round Draft picks accrue over 5 years MLB service time…? I, or anyone, would think a Top International Prospect in their respective class should be counted on as future contributors to the Big League ball club… They should absolutely give up a draft pick to sign MIchael Conforto. Not for a one year deal though. That's just poor asset allocation. Colas and Cespedes could be contributors in the future. Nobody should be penciling them in as answers on a world series contender though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 35 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Very different circumstance, and if you remember, in 2012 Paulie was hitting around .400 when he messed up his wrist, something the team characterized as no big deal. When he came back, he was never the same. There wasn't the #3 overall pick waiting to take his place, and Paulie played for $2.5 million. Abreu and Dunn were around. Paulie was clearly a back up. And when Konerko was 36, they signed him to a 3 year extension. Look, there’s lots of things the white Sox could do. They could just pay the tax for two years. They could let Abreu finish his career elsewhere and start a rookie somewhere. They could trade away a pitcher to clear payroll. They could attach a prospect with Moustakas and move him. I can guess which of those I think the White Sox will do, and I bet they are getting “big board” consideration when any deal where they take on a lot of salary is discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 MLBPA should try to create some sort of bird rights for players like Abreu. 8+ years on same team and over 34 years old can be re-signed without luxury tax implications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Outside the box trade idea that will likely trigger this board but one worth discussing: Gavin Sheets + Dallas Keuchel to CIN for Sonny Gray + Mike Moustakas This trade adds ~$8M in salary in 2022 & ~$30M in 2023 assuming Gray’s team option is exercised. The assumption here is that Moustakas is used as part of a 2B platoon with Leury or Romy. Before I get completely laughed at, both OAA & UZR/150 had Moustakas as a slightly below average 2B defensively during his short stint there in 2019 & 2020 and that seems to be consistent with the scouting reports I’ve read. And regarding the bat, he had been 9% to 23% better than league average against RHP over his previous six seasons prior to 2021. Was last year an outlier due to a plantar fasciitis injury or the beginning of a steep downward trend? If my scouts & medical staff believe it’s the former and that he can still be adequate at 2B, then I think this is a move worth exploring. This is an interesting idea. Team defense might be the worst in the league tho with Mous at 2B. We really need a plus defender at 2B. I still really like the LaStella for Keuchel+. LaStella will miss a month or maybe two, but he's a great team fit and Leury/Romy can cover in the meantime. You can still bring in a cheap defense first utility infielder too. But without Keuchel, you obviously have to bring in a reliable SP elsewhere then. I fully expect Keuchel to be on this roster tho, and frankly I think he'll be fine as the 5. This team is plenty good enough to win the division comfortably with Keuchel as the 5. I worry more about keeping his innings in check to avoid paying him $20M in 23 than him killing the Sox from the 5 spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: This is an interesting idea. Team defense might be the worst in the league tho with Mous at 2B. We really need a plus defender at 2B. I still really like the LaStella for Keuchel+. LaStella will miss a month or maybe two, but he's a great team fit and Leury/Romy can cover in the meantime. You can still bring in a cheap defense first utility infielder too. But without Keuchel, you obviously have to bring in a reliable SP elsewhere then. I fully expect Keuchel to be on this roster tho, and frankly I think he'll be fine as the 5. This team is plenty good enough to win the division comfortably with Keuchel as the 5. I worry more about keeping his innings in check to avoid paying him $20M in 23 than him killing the Sox from the 5 spot. I feel like this idea probably went out the window after the Giants signed 3 starters (Wood, Cobb, DeSclafani). Edited February 17, 2022 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 51 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I feel like this idea probably went out the window after the Giants signed 3 starters (Wood, Cobb, DeSclafani). If the Giants kicked in a couple million in 2023 (La Stella has a balloon contract in the last year), a Kimbrel for La Stella swap probably works and clears a lot of the White Sox's tax issues this season. They would probably have to consider whether Kimbrel can survive as a setup man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If the Giants kicked in a couple million in 2023 (La Stella has a balloon contract in the last year), a Kimbrel for La Stella swap probably works and clears a lot of the White Sox's tax issues this season. They would probably have to consider whether Kimbrel can survive as a setup man? At this point, I don't think any team is acquiring him to do anything other than close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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