When (or if) the lockout ends, Carlos Rodon should top the Sox list of signings

[Bob Sacamano]

8 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Many posters have mentioned Marte as a possible 2B when he has played more in the OF than at 2B over the past 3 years. I don't know the reasons for that, but he may very well be a better option in RF than at 2B. This is probably academic in that if Ariz were to shop him - the Sox have little to offer in a bidding war.
 FA -Conforto - #5 SP
Kimbrel to Phils for Segura + catcher prospect.
I still think the Sox should bring Tepera back.

Yeah one more veteran middle reliever is a must.

[FoxForce2]

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah one more veteran middle reliever is a must.

The Cesar trade/deal is still a head scratcher. On paper, it was a solid trade, even considering that his HR rates would likely decrease. GG fielder, a decent bat, solid experience, 2 years of contract --- what could go wrong? Everything I guess. That trade has backed the Sox into a corner for this season and requires addressing along with the other needs. I don't necessarily blame Hahn on this one, but something went pretty wrong in the vetting process.

[Tnetennba]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Adam Engel is a 4th OF and should be treated as such.  Game-planning that he can be more than that despite injuring himself every season is the definition of insanity.

Sheets & Vaughn are NOT major league RFs.  When playing RF, they both averaged -1 DRS per 40 innings played (SSS but the eye test and basic logic confirm them being horrible out there).  For perspective, that is roughly the same level of defense Jermaine Dye provided in 2007 and he was literally the worst defensive OF in baseball per DRS.  And despite posting a wRC+ of 104, Dye ended up having a -1.2 fWAR season.  Point is that any offensive value these guys can provide in RF will be greatly offset by their poor defense.

Who are these SP & 2B we are going to spend “big money” on?  You can make this claim but point me to some names that fit the billing.  More realistically, we will need address these spots via trade (with Sheets a potential trade chip).  As such, the one spot that we can fill in free agency and help shore our weakness against tough RHP is in RF.

We are in our World Series window RIGHT NOW.  We only have Lucas Giolito & Yasmani Grandal for two more years.  We only have Tim Anderson, Lance Lynn, & Liam Hendriks for three more years.  Yoelqui Cespedes & Oscar Colas should have ZERO bearing on our near-term decision making.  The only thing that matters is winning a World Series in 2022, 2023, & 2024.  If Cespedes & Colas eventually develop into usable pieces that’s great, but for now they should be strictly minor league depth and potential trade chips.  Not signing Conforto because you are worried about blocking these two guys would be a fireable offense IMO.

I simply can’t echo your first two paragraphs enough.  Engel is a 4th OF with less than dependable health and Vaughn & Sheets simply are not  Major League RF.  Putting that combo out in the field every day in the middle of the Sox contention window is a complete failure to address a longtime hole at a position of need.  

[Two-Gun Pete]

36 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Many posters have mentioned Marte as a possible 2B when he has played more in the OF than at 2B over the past 3 years. I don't know the reasons for that, but he may very well be a better option in RF than at 2B. This is probably academic in that if Ariz were to shop him - the Sox have little to offer in a bidding war.
 FA -Conforto - #5 SP
Kimbrel to Phils for Segura + catcher prospect.
I still think the Sox should bring Tepera back.

Trading anything other than sending Kimbrel away is a bad idea for two reasons:

1. (And I can't emphasize this enough) KW/RH will get humiliated and crushed in trade. They will lose. They've proven this time and again, and yes, selling high on a piece (Sale/Q/Eaton) is not at all akin to them trying to add a piece.

2. They have next to nothing to trade away, and there will be needs this TDL, next offseason, and next TDL. Trading for things that you can buy NOW for just cash is stupid. Save your trade ammo for future gunfights.

 

Now, I'd love the Kimbrel for Segura + idea. But, it probably won't happen, because Kimbrel has little value/is old and expensive, and KW/RH have no negotiating leverage.

Unless some other team has a pile of injuries, SOX fans should get comfortable with the idea of having to eat some of Kimbrel’s salary to have him fuck off.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[FoxForce2]

Just now, Tnetennba said:

I simply can’t echo your first two paragraphs enough.  Engel is a 4th OF with less than dependable health and Vaughn & Sheets simply are not  Major League RF.  Putting that combo out in the field every day in the middle of the Sox contention window is a complete failure to address a longtime hole at a position of need.  

If I'm a free agent pitcher, I'm looking for at least MLB average fielding around me. Right now - the Sox ain't it. Short of a really good $$$ offer, guys like Kershaw and Grienke would likely demur on a Sox offer.

[Spicy gar]

15 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

He played CF when they acquired him but mostly RF afterward. 

CF was a black hole from the time Rowand got traded until Robert got called up. 

Rowand loved throwing himself into walls

Edited March 6, 2022 by Spicy gar

[FoxForce2]

7 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Unless some other team has a pile of injuries, SOX fans should get comfortable with the idea of having to eat some of Kimbrel’s salary to have him fuck off.

I think that's very nearly a foregone conclusion in any Kimbrel trade.

[VAfan]

I can understand the viewpoint that the Sox may not pony up to keep Rodon.  What I can't understand is thinking that would be a bad idea.

I believe the Sox do not want to set the market for Rodon, but may be willing to match the market, depending on any offer he receives elsewhere.

I also believe that, if the offers are equal, Rodon would choose returning to the Sox over just about any other team that bids for his services.  

But let me just remind everyone here how good Rodon was last year.  Here are his splits from Baseball Reference, and here are his game logs.  

He had 24 appearances.  He gave up 0-3 hits in 13 of them.  He had 7 outings of 0 runs, 8 outings of 1 run, 2 outings of 2 runs, 2 of 3, 4 of 4, and 1 of 5.  He was DOMINANT.   

Here's Grant Bribee, Giants writer for the Athletic, on Rodon:

Quote

 

There is another, though. A left-hander with premium stuff, someone who could conceivably start Game 1 of a World Series. Someone who could also close out Game 7 if you need him to. His stuff is that good, and I hope you’re not averse to the word “stuff” because you’re going to read it about 534 more times in this article. Stuff, stuff, stuff. Carlos Rodón has incredible stuff, and he’s unlikely to get a bank-breaking deal. Why, he might even sign for one year.

Rodón used this stuff in 2021 to post a 2.37 ERA, which is the seventh-lowest ERA in the American League (min. 24 starts) in the last 10 seasons. He struck out 185 of the 534 batters he faced, which is a cool 34.6 percent. That’s the 14th-best rate in baseball history. On account of the stuff.

This isn’t the first time that Rodón has appeared in a free-agent profile here. He was No. 2 on a ranking I made late last offseason, and even though the Giants eventually signed three of the top 10 pitchers on that list, they might have won 108 or 109 games with Rodón. No free agent provided more run prevention for his team this past season.

 

So, the Sox may not sign Rodon, but they SHOULD.  He's WAY better than any other pitcher named in this thread, and he only costs money, not prospects or current Sox players.  

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, VAfan said:

I can understand the viewpoint that the Sox may not pony up to keep Rodon.  What I can't understand is thinking that would be a bad idea.

I believe the Sox do not want to set the market for Rodon, but may be willing to match the market, depending on any offer he receives elsewhere.

I also believe that, if the offers are equal, Rodon would choose returning to the Sox over just about any other team that bids for his services.  

But let me just remind everyone here how good Rodon was last year.  Here are his splits from Baseball Reference, and here are his game logs.  

He had 24 appearances.  He gave up 0-3 hits in 13 of them.  He had 7 outings of 0 runs, 8 outings of 1 run, 2 outings of 2 runs, 2 of 3, 4 of 4, and 1 of 5.  He was DOMINANT.   

Here's Grant Bribee, Giants writer for the Athletic, on Rodon:

So, the Sox may not sign Rodon, but they SHOULD.  He's WAY better than any other pitcher named in this thread, and he only costs money, not prospects or current Sox players.  

They should resign him even if they know his arm won’t hold up next year?

[oldsox]

We don't know if Carlos would even want to play for Sox this year.

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, oldsox said:

We don't know if Carlos would even want to play for Sox this year.

Carlos Rodon’s agent is Scott Boras. He will play anywhere if they offer him the best contract. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, oldsox said:

We don't know if Carlos would even want to play for Sox this year.

He seems to love it on the south side so I’d say he would if the money is equal.

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 hours ago, VAfan said:

I can understand the viewpoint that the Sox may not pony up to keep Rodon.  What I can't understand is thinking that would be a bad idea.

So, the Sox may not sign Rodon, but they SHOULD.  He's WAY better than any other pitcher named in this thread, and he only costs money, not prospects or current Sox players.  

I'll agree that Rodon has performed the best out of the SPs on offer.

I'll also agree that acquiring a SP for just money is exactly what they should do. Trading for one would be stupid to do, due to the lack of assets, and that they probably can't get a much better SP in trade than can be gotten in FA.

I'll disagree that Rodon would automatically want to stay here. A player does NOT hire Boras if he's interested in staying with the White Sox, both due to this org's need for "hometown discounts," AND Boras' need to squeeze every penny out of every contract he can sign.

I'll also agree that, given Rodon's long and enduring injury history, there are reasons for pause. Whether or not he's healthy matters more than all else, insofar as him being re-signed here.

[GreenSox]

The energy of your post deserves a thumbs-up, VaFan.  And if he's healthy, let's sign him.

[FoxForce2]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He seems to love it on the south side so I’d say he would if the money is equal.

Either/Or --- Rodon or Conforto? Your pick?

[Colome's Hat]

I feel like Rodon is dropping bread crumbs on his social media that he is resigning.  I follow him on instagram and there have been some really unsubtle hints.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, FoxForce2 said:

Either/Or --- Rodon or Conforto? Your pick?

Of those two I’m taking Conforto.  I’m not against bringing Rodon back, but he’s the definition of a high risk player.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Colome's Hat said:

I feel like Rodon is dropping bread crumbs on his social media that he is resigning.  I follow him on instagram and there have been some really unsubtle hints.

Mind sharing those?

Edited March 7, 2022 by Chicago White Sox

[BigHurt3515]

I do think the lockout might actually help us sign him to a 1 year incentive deal. Signing somewhere random quickly and having to move his family might be a big enough reason for him to want to come back and hopefully have a more real off-season next year. 

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Of those two I’m taking Conforto.  I’m not against bringing Rodon back, but he’s the definition of a high risk player.

This.  There is no doubt that Rodon had an incredible year, and has incredible upside.  But, again, this is a dude who is ALWAYS hurt.

He's been in the majors 7 years, and in 3 of them didn't even get to 100 IP.  In 7 seasons, he has qualified for the ERA crown 1 time.  Once, in 7 years.  If you back up the truck for the guy, you are pretty likely to get 100 innings of Carlos and 100 of whatever triple A pitchers you have to cobble together to fill the rest of his innings.  Even in his best season ever, he still missed around 10 starts and only got to 130 innings.

[Quin]

12 hours ago, Colome's Hat said:

I feel like Rodon is dropping bread crumbs on his social media that he is resigning.  I follow him on instagram and there have been some really unsubtle hints.

This IG story?

https://www.instagram.com/stories/carlos_rodon55/2788378424690035978/?hl=en

[Balta1701]

48 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This.  There is no doubt that Rodon had an incredible year, and has incredible upside.  But, again, this is a dude who is ALWAYS hurt.

He's been in the majors 7 years, and in 3 of them didn't even get to 100 IP.  In 7 seasons, he has qualified for the ERA crown 1 time.  Once, in 7 years.  If you back up the truck for the guy, you are pretty likely to get 100 innings of Carlos and 100 of whatever triple A pitchers you have to cobble together to fill the rest of his innings.  Even in his best season ever, he still missed around 10 starts and only got to 130 innings.

While I don’t disagree, this is one where there is a powerful devil’s advocate position. (Channeling Scott Boras here).

Carlos Rodon had a single shoulder injury. This injury took years to recover from and pitching through it caused him to mess with his mechanics (causing TJS). Combined that cost him multiple seasons and prevented him from getting stretched out. 

Now that he’s actually healthy, he showed the dominant pitcher he can be, putting up a 5 win season in only 130 innings. It is totally unsurprising that he couldn’t get past 130 innings without his arm wearing out, so you can’t count that as a major negative against him - you would have written that part of the script in spring training and some unnamed poster here wanted him shut down after the All Star break.

If you sign him to a multi year deal, you have a solid shot at signing a 6-7 win per season pitcher for less than you are spending on Keuchel. That is a huge potential return for this risk.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

While I don’t disagree, this is one where there is a powerful devil’s advocate position. (Channeling Scott Boras here).

Carlos Rodon had a single shoulder injury. This injury took years to recover from and pitching through it caused him to mess with his mechanics (causing TJS). Combined that cost him multiple seasons and prevented him from getting stretched out. 

Now that he’s actually healthy, he showed the dominant pitcher he can be, putting up a 5 win season in only 130 innings. It is totally unsurprising that he couldn’t get past 130 innings without his arm wearing out, so you can’t count that as a major negative against him - you would have written that part of the script in spring training and some unnamed poster here wanted him shut down after the All Star break.

If you sign him to a multi year deal, you have a solid shot at signing a 6-7 win per season pitcher for less than you are spending on Keuchel. That is a huge potential return for this risk.

IU personally, am a poster and fan who would take the risk on him.  risk = high.  reward = high.  Given what his cost will be and the FA starters left, I'd take the risk.

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

While I don’t disagree, this is one where there is a powerful devil’s advocate position. (Channeling Scott Boras here).

Carlos Rodon had a single shoulder injury. This injury took years to recover from and pitching through it caused him to mess with his mechanics (causing TJS). Combined that cost him multiple seasons and prevented him from getting stretched out. 

Now that he’s actually healthy, he showed the dominant pitcher he can be, putting up a 5 win season in only 130 innings. It is totally unsurprising that he couldn’t get past 130 innings without his arm wearing out, so you can’t count that as a major negative against him - you would have written that part of the script in spring training and some unnamed poster here wanted him shut down after the All Star break.

If you sign him to a multi year deal, you have a solid shot at signing a 6-7 win per season pitcher for less than you are spending on Keuchel. That is a huge potential return for this risk.

I think your risk level is a lot higher than what you think it is based on his first seven years.  I can't see him miraculously getting and staying healthy from here on out.

[Balta1701]

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think your risk level is a lot higher than what you think it is based on his first seven years.  I can't see him miraculously getting and staying healthy from here on out.

I don't think it makes sense for the White Sox with their financial situation, but someone like the Yankees or Twins should absolutely go grab him. These are teams regularly spending money on and trading for piitchers at that level with far lower ceilings than Rodon.