Offseason Part 2 - Lets the Rumors & Action Begin

[KrankinSox]

35 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We are trading for a starter pitcher.  I know that will trigger some here since it will likely be a rental or guy with limited control, but it’s going to happen.  Hell, Hahn even mentioned in his press conference today that they have discussed non traditional rotation structures to get through the season, including a theoretical six man rotation.

Hahn also mentioned that Crochet may be in the 2021 Kopech role. Spot starts and multiple inning bullpen appearances.

As it stands now, rotation is:

Lynn

Gio

Cease

Kopech

Keuchel/Lopez

Crochet

So there is enough depth there as it stands to have this unorthodox 6 man rotation scenario.

Having said that, I agree that we will trade for a starter. We need another quality veteran in the rotation. There's too much uncertainty beyond Gio and Lynn. Need another reliable mid rotation type. Bassitt makes a lot of sense.

Edited March 12, 2022 by KrankinSox

[Ducksnort]

43 minutes ago, ptatc said:

He is also the guy who acquired grandal, abreu, moncada, Jimenez, Robert,  Giolito Cease Bummer and Hendricks.  

Add Lynn to that list.  And Kopech

Edited March 12, 2022 by ScooterMcGee

[Tnetennba]

18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Let’s say the Sox sign Joe Kelly and deal Kimbrel.  Here’s how the bullpen would shake out (Steamer’s projected 2022 FIP in parentheses):

• CL: Liam Hendriks (2.69)
• SU: Aaron Bummer* (3.28)
• SU: Kendall Graveman (3.98)
• MR: Garrett Crochet* (3.85)
• MR: Joe Kelly (3.88)
• MR: Ryan Burr (4.64)
• MR: Jose Ruiz (4.51)
• LR: Reynaldo Lopez (4.36)

The top five would look good, but I’d want another arm that at a minimum can compete with Burr & Ruiz.

There’s a cliff after Kelly there for sure.  Those last three make the pen feel thin to me. 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ok, I'm done joking around (for now).

I disagree here. When I highlight the myriad fuckups by RH/KW, its because they're so fucking commonplace and blatant. 

For example:

A year ago, we needed OFers. Atlanta needed OFers.

We had the 5th most fWAR by RPs @ the TDL, Atlanta had the 12th most fWAR by ROs @ the TDL.

Atlanta intelligently went out and addressed their problem by getting OFers. RH looked that the pile of AAAA types in the OF, and traded for a closer.

By the way, who won the WS? And in looking at what Atlanta have up for their OFers vs Heuer and Madrigal, who spent more lavishly?

That wasn't "a lack of resources," that was a stoopid FO doing stoopid things. And we can recite chapter and verse on that.

Hell, if Oakland and Tampa and Milwaukee can compete with a fraction of our resources, then it ain't about JR. Its about how stoopid our FO has been.

No offense, but almost all your arguments are based on hindsight and ignore all context.  Every OF Atlanta acquired at the deadline sucked major dick prior to the deadline.  They got super lucky that those guys all got hot at exactly the right time and carried them in the playoffs.  You would have ripped Hahn to shreds if he acquired one of those guys to be our RF answer at the deadline.

I’m not going to keep arguing our need for bullpen help at the deadline because it’s beyond tiring.  I don’t give a fuck what our team fWAR was at that point in time.  I only care about the go-forward projections of the guys we had available at the time.  Anyone who actually watched the games in July knew we needed serious bullpen help.  You citing a backwards looking stat as it’s somehow proof that the bullpen was in great shape is hilarious.

And in regard to your last paragraph, we literally made the postseason two straight years and will likely make it three in a row.  We have one of the best teams on baseball because of the moves the front office has made kicking off the rebuild.  The way you whine is like we’re the god damn Rockies.  Funny all is took was Jerry finally agreeing to rebuild the org from the ground-up for us to quickly change our trajectory.  So you can literally post 1,000 times a day just how “stoopid” Hahn is, but I’m going to sit back and enjoy watching one of the best young teams in baseball compete for a championship.

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I hated the Kimbrel trade in the moment, but if they're really *stuck* with a reliever who projects to be one of the best in baseball, it's not the end of the world. They can still make meaningful additions as is with the CBT being raised now.

Well, Fangraphs has about 6 projection systems on their page right now. Kimbrel projects to an average of an ERA in the upper 3s, and about 0.6 WAR in those. Corey Knebel, who the Phillies signed for $10 million, projects for basically the same. An actual strong reliever, Hendriks, is shown projecting for about an average of 1.7 WAR and an ERA in the upper 2’s.

[Two-Gun Pete]

22 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

1. No offense, but almost all your arguments are based on hindsight and ignore all context.  Every OF Atlanta acquired at the deadline sucked major dick prior to the deadline.  

2. I’m not going to keep arguing our need for bullpen help at the deadline because it’s beyond tiring.  I don’t give a fuck what our team fWAR was at that point in time.  I only care about the go-forward projections of the guys we had available at the time. 

3. And in regard to your last paragraph, we literally made the postseason two straight years and will likely make it three in a row.

1. No, I didn't like the possibility of a Kimbrel trade at the time. And here's "the context" you're missing: Atlanta's OF acquisitions might have "sucked major dick at the time," but they were and are MLB-caliber players.

Meanwhile, you want to memory hole the shittiness of AAAA luminaries like Billy Hamilton, Nick Williams, Brian Goodwin, and Jake Lamb. Sorry, but the shitty outcome of adding a closer was painfully predictable at the time.

2. If you don't like the numbers, argue the numbers. The white Sox BP was better than Atlanta's at the TDL, and then they added to it. Who won the WS, and who got curbstomped again in the 1st round, again?

Was it the stupid team that added MLB caliber OFers who "sucked major dick," or was it the geniuses who added a closer?

3. And it looks like we're headed to another 1st round exit. They sure as he'll made sure to address the BP with Graveman, but hey, thats all you need, amirite?

 

You made it about JR'S provision of resources. If less-wealthy clubs like Tampa, Oakland, and Milwaukee can compete, it ain't about the resources. Its about the quality of the FO's work.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

1. No, I didn't like the possibility of a Kimbrel trade at the time. And here's "the context" you're missing: Atlanta's OF acquisitions might have "sucked major dick at the time," but they were and are MLB-caliber players.

Meanwhile, you want to memory hole the shittiness of AAAA luminaries like Billy Hamilton, Nick Williams, Brian Goodwin, and Jake Lamb. Sorry, but the shitty outcome of adding a closer was painfully predictable at the time.

2. If you don't like the numbers, argue the numbers. The white Sox BP was better than Atlanta's at the TDL, and then they added to it. Who won the WS, and who got curbstomped again in the 1st round, again?

Was it the stupid team that added MLB caliber OFers who "sucked major dick," or was it the geniuses who added a closer?

3. And it looks like we're headed to another 1st round exit. They sure as he'll made sure to address the BP with Graveman, but hey, thats all you need, amirite?

I was ok with the Kimbrel trade when they did it, but I was under the assumption that they were going to decline his option and he was an expensive rental. Also, I was very glad to bring an end to the Nick Madrigal written fellatio. I always agreed with Keith Law about him and wanted to trade him for a while. I'd have used him differently, but whatever. Just glad to get him off the team. 

Now I get to make fun of Cub fans for jerking off Madrigal. Much better. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[SoxBlanco]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

I was ok with the Kimbrel trade when they did it, but I was under the assumption that they were going to decline his option and he was an expensive rental. Also, I was very glad to bring an end to the Nick Madrigal written fellatio. 

If they can’t get a good return for Kimbrel, then they will basically “decline his option” by shipping him out for a non-prospect. What’s the risk?  Is there really a chance that nobody will take him for free? (By free, I mean giving up no real prospects and just taking on the contract)

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

If they can’t get a good return for Kimbrel, then they will basically “decline his option” by shipping him out for a non-prospect. What’s the risk?  Is there really a chance that nobody will take him for free? (By free, I mean giving up no real prospects and just taking on the contract)

Yes. Kimbrel is really expensive and has sucked for 2.5 out of the last 3 seasons. 

Picking up his option was beyond asinine. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said:

If they can’t get a good return for Kimbrel, then they will basically “decline his option” by shipping him out for a non-prospect. What’s the risk?  Is there really a chance that nobody will take him for free? (By free, I mean giving up no real prospects and just taking on the contract)

Would you just take on his existing contract like the White Sox did with Alex Rios....?

[SoxBlanco]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Would you just take on his existing contract like the White Sox did with Alex Rios....?

If I needed a closer, then yes. 

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

If I needed a closer, then yes. 

But the Phillies have Knebel, the Cardinals Jordan Hicks returning...there's no team without any legit internal options at closer right now.

[2Deep]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But the Phillies have Knebel, the Cardinals Jordan Hicks returning...there's no team without any legit internal options at closer right now.

Is Kimbrel not better then either of those.........

[caulfield12]

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-free-agency-live-updates-rumors-as-baseballs-hot-stove-reignites-following-end-of-lockout/live/

Freeman to Dodgers possibly tonight, Braves would go after Olson trade or Rizzo/Voit.

Mahle with the Reds would be a really good rotation insurance move.   Less expensive than Castillo and Gray.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-free-agency-live-updates-rumors-as-baseballs-hot-stove-reignites-following-end-of-lockout/live/

Freeman to Dodgers possibly tonight, Braves would go after Olson trade or Rizzo/Voit.

Mahle with the Reds would be a really good rotation insurance move.   Less expensive than Castillo and Gray.

Mahle is going to cost more than Gray.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

Is Kimbrel not better then either of those.........

No. He is not. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, 2Deep said:

Is Kimbrel not better then either of those.........

Sure, maybe....but is he worth $6 million more than Knebel, or $15 million more than Hicks to a mid~market franchise like the Cardinals already carrying two huge deals on the books at 1B and 3B?

[SoxBlanco]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But the Phillies have Knebel, the Cardinals Jordan Hicks returning...there's no team without any legit internal options at closer right now.

Padres? Red Sox?

(Im honestly asking, as I don’t know their closer situations well enough)

[Heads22]

I would like anyone concerned about Hahns quote about how they are prepared to go forward with this team as constructed to actually watch him answer the question on the video conference. That’s not the look of a man standing pat. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Heads22 said:

I would like anyone concerned about Hahns quote about how they are prepared to go forward with this team as constructed to actually watch him answer the question on the video conference. That’s not the look of a man standing pat. 

Exactly.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Mahle is going to cost more than Gray.

"The 27-year old righty would be a nice addition to the Mets rotation, especially considering how good Mahle has been away from Cincinnati. He had a 2.30 ERA, 2.76 FIP, and a 9.91 K/9 in away games in 2021. Mahle's already on an upwards trajectory and a move to a friendlier home field would give him even more potential going forward."

 

Didn't realize how good he was away from home...albeit in a weaker division overall.  Two years of control vs. just the one like Bassitt would be the key there.

[ShoeLessRob]

 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Padres? Red Sox?

(Im honestly asking, as I don’t know their closer situations well enough)

Suarez, Pagan or Pomeranz.

Red Sox definitely looking to make a move...but it surely won't be Kimbrel again.

Kenley Jansen also is without a home as of now, similar profile and risk as Craig, but looking for at least 2-3 years.

[SoxBlanco]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Suarez, Pagan or Pomeranz.

Red Sox definitely looking to make a move...but it surely won't be Kimbrel again.

Kenley Jansen also is without a home as of now, similar profile and risk as Craig, but looking for at least 2-3 years.

Yeah, the fact that Kimbrel will only be a 1 year deal is why I think somebody will take him. 

[Jack Parkman]

On a side note, I hope Crochet comes out throwing 100 mph this year again. 

On a different note, I thought this shit was going to be bananas but instead it's been a snooze fest. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Jack Parkman