Offseason Part 2 - Lets the Rumors & Action Begin

[ShoeLessRob]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

He bats with the wrong hand, for one. We need a lefty. Badly. 

That didn’t stop them from going with Harrison.

[KBX]

24 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

If anyone is looking for a glass half full point of view, the fact that the Sox haven’t publicly been linked to anyone recently might actually be good news as most of the Sox significant additions come out of nowhere. When the Sox are heavily rumored to be interested in a player, they typically don’t end up getting that guy.

Yeah but the most common outcome is we get nobody. And when it's the middle of March it's still more likely that we get nobody. 

10 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

What’s the point of discussion if you’re discouraged from expressing an actual opinion that other posters are being unreasonably negative?

Why is there something rather than nothing?

Who created God? 

7 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

If contending teams like Padres, Dodgers, Red Sox, and Giants are bidding for Suzuki’s service and the team across town is meeting with him tonight (shows he’s open to coming to Chicago), is there a reasonable excuse for Sox to not be in the hunt?

I'd say because he's unproven and further he's a righty power hitter which doesn't serve an urgent need. 

5 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

It’s unrealistic to be in on every free agent that’s out there. Signing Suzuki and having him start in the big leagues right away is a big risk especially if he’s unproven and may not be the best fit for the team. Might as well start Colas in the big leagues right away. 

We might as well pre-retire his number because he sounds really good. 

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I see you’re conveniently leaving out the period of time where he was arguably the best reliever in baseball.

BABIP:
2019: .279
2020: .320
2021Cubs: .203 (career low)
2021Sox: .295

HR/FB:
2019: 36% (legitimately unlucky)
2020: 16.7 %
2021Cubs: 3.8 % (career low)
2021Sox: 19.5% (a little unlucky but less out of line with his career).

Arguably the luckiest reliever in baseball is what other teams are looking at when determining his performance next year.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

BABIP:
2019: .279
2020: .320
2021Cubs: .203 (career low)
2021Sox: .295

HR/FB:
2019: 36% (legitimately unlucky)
2020: 16.7 %
2021Cubs: 3.8 % (career low)
2021Sox: 19.5% (a little unlucky but less out of line with his career).

Arguably the luckiest reliever in baseball is what other teams are looking at when determining his performance next year.

Shhh!!!

Don't let anyone else know about these super-secret numbers that, like, ANYONE could have gotten. Even RH/KW.

[Eminor3rd]

10 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Unproven RHH who is a LF.

He's a true RF who could fake CF. Elite arm.

Unproven in MLB as a hitter, though, true. I'm an NPB fanboi, but It's not unreasonable at all to scout him properly and conclude he isn't worth the risk. However, given that the Sox haven't been seriously involved in any NPB player since Tanaka, and it seems that a lot of other teams are liking what they're seeing with Suzuki -- I think there's a good chance they just didn't allocate the resources to be involved in the first place. If so, that's tough to swallow only because they needed a RF so badly. You hope they at least did the due diligence.

[maloney.adam]

It’s a snooze fest tonight. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

He's a true RF who could fake CF. Elite arm.

Unproven in MLB as a hitter, though, true. I'm an NPB fanboi, but It's not unreasonable at all to scout him properly and conclude he isn't worth the risk. However, given that the Sox haven't been seriously involved in any NPB player since Tanaka, and it seems that a lot of other teams are liking what they're seeing with Suzuki -- I think there's a good chance they just didn't allocate the resources to be involved in the first place. If so, that's tough to swallow only because they needed a RF so badly. You hope they at least did the due diligence.

I've been in favor of pursuing Suzuki since day 1.

The SOX having been 6th in wrc+ v RHP last season meant that Suzuki's handedness should have meant less than whether or not he's an actual MLB-caliber RFer overall.

 

The other thing about the SOX OF is that both the CFer and LFer have injury histories; I didn't much care for Conforto coming pre-injured and >30 years old. Does Suzuki have a significant injury history? 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[ChiSox59]

9 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

That didn’t stop them from going with Harrison.

Yeah. Head scratcher. 

[thxfrthmmrs]

The need for an LHH is overblown. If Suzuki checks all the checkboxes - provide solid defense, good bat, offers youth and upside, and most importantly fits within our budget, are you willing to pass on him for just for handedness? We have Moncada and Grandal who are switch hitters to hit in the top half of the lineup. We could have brought back Hernandez to hit in the bottom 3rd but we brought in a RHH 2B instead.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

The need for an LHH is overblown. If Suzuki checks all the checkboxes - provide solid defense, good bat, offers youth and upside, and most importantly fits within our budget, are you willing to pass on him for just for handedness? We have Moncada and Grandal who are switch hitters to hit in the top half of the lineup. We could have brought back Hernandez to hit in the bottom 3rd but we brought in a RHH 2B instead.

I mean, the right answer in that case is to pay somewhat more to solve the handedness problem given that such a player is available.

[SoxBlanco]

26 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Harold also told us to "just wait...." two days ago as if a move was about to be announced. 

I didn’t take “Just wait…” to mean that a move was imminent. I just figured it meant that we definitely will make a significant move at some point. If we don’t, then I’ll be right there with you criticizing this offseason. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

The need for an LHH is overblown. If Suzuki checks all the checkboxes - provide solid defense, good bat, offers youth and upside, and most importantly fits within our budget, are you willing to pass on him for just for handedness? We have Moncada and Grandal who are switch hitters to hit in the top half of the lineup. We could have brought back Hernandez to hit in the bottom 3rd but we brought in a RHH 2B instead.

Or, we could have gone with LHH Miller, or SH Villar for 2B. I mean, I have no explanation for Harrison whatsoever.

But you're absolutely right about the need for LHH being overblown. I looked at the SOX splits, and we finished ahead of WS Champion Atl v. RHP in wrc+.

So, Suzuki should be under consideration. Whether or not the geniuses that blew $30MM or so on steaming turds this offseason agree is a conundrum. 

[thxfrthmmrs]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I mean, the right answer in that case is to pay somewhat more to solve the handedness problem given that such a player is available.

What’s concerning here is there is no rumor of Sox checking in on Suzuki and they haven’t made any progress in Conforto talk, makes you wonder how much interest they have to spend on that end of the spectrum for RF vs. going dumpster diving or going in house.

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

The need for an LHH is overblown. If Suzuki checks all the checkboxes - provide solid defense, good bat, offers youth and upside, and most importantly fits within our budget, are you willing to pass on him for just for handedness? We have Moncada and Grandal who are switch hitters to hit in the top half of the lineup. We could have brought back Hernandez to hit in the bottom 3rd but we brought in a RHH 2B instead.

I mean, it’s not overblown. The Sox aren’t a great offensive team against RHP. Generally, as you know, lefties hit righties better - which is why semblance of roster balance is important. Obviously youre not picking a shitty LHH over a really good RHH just due to handedness.
 

You won’t see me really defend the Harrison move, but if you’re gonna sign an OF, it really should be a lefty that hits RHP well. The lineup needs it. Just so happens this guy named Michael Conforto is a pretty good fit and is a FA. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I mean, the right answer in that case is to pay somewhat more to solve the handedness problem given that such a player is available.

I'd think you'd be right, IF they'd only prioritized the right things this offseason.

I mean, Adam Eaton was cut on 7/12/21. This org has needed to improve that spot at least since then. And more likely, even a month or so BEFORE then.

Instead, look at all the cash, and all the trade assets, and all the effort squandered on other things that this roster hasn't needed. Look at all the youngsters being forced into suboptimal roles for their skillsets. Look at all of that, and the roster is actually worse NOW than it was at the close of last season.

 

And some wonder why this board has turned negative? Really?

Edited March 15, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[FoxForce2]

6 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I've been in favor of pursuing Suzuki since day 1.

The SOX having been 6th in wrc+ v RHP last season meant that Suzuki's handedness should have meant less than whether or not he's an actual MLB-caliber RFer overall.

 

 I don't follow Japanese baseball, but there is certainly a boatload of data/info on Suzuki's overall performance and the reports are that he'll make a plus-competence impact in either CF or RF. Japanese players crossing the water almost always field their positions at above average levels. Whether they have plus speed or not, they run the bases well too.  The problem is that the Sox have a critical need for a quality LH bat. Critical if they're shooting for a WS appearance that is. If the Sox were any better at hitting RH pitching, Suzuki would likely be a no-brainer of an option. But that's just not the case.

[thxfrthmmrs]

16 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean, it’s not overblown. The Sox aren’t a great offensive team against RHP. Generally, as you know, lefties hit righties better - which is why semblance of roster balance is important. Obviously youre not picking a shitty LHH over a really good RHH just due to handedness.
 

You won’t see me really defend the Harrison move, but if you’re gonna sign an OF, it really should be a lefty that hits RHP well. The lineup needs it. Just so happens this guy named Michael Conforto is a pretty good fit and is a FA. 

Sox had 108 wRC+ last season against RHP which is good for 6th in baseball. While going after an LHH RF is ideal it shouldn’t be a deal breaker to the point they aren’t even checking in on him. This just shows a disconnect in scouting in Asian market and lack of trust in Asian import, which is another failure for this organization.

I want Conforto as much as anyone, but I am not hopeful that they get a deal done given the rumored price tag. Suzuki should cost a bit less, but again, it’s disappointing that there is no rumored interest. Our hope to turn is off-season around is solely riding on Conforto.

Edited March 15, 2022 by thxfrthmmrs

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Sox had 108 wRC+ last season against RHP which is good for 6th in baseball last season. While going after an LHH RF is ideal it shouldn’t be a deal breaker to the point they aren’t even checking in on him. This just shows a disconnect in scouting in Asian market and lack of trust in Asian import, which is another failure for this organization.

I want Conforto as much as anyone, but I am not hopeful that they get a deal done given the rumored price tag. Suzuki should cost a bit less, but again, it’s disappointing that there is no rumored interest. Our hope to turn is off-season around is solely riding on Conforto.

Pretty much, yeah. I agree. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

14 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

 I don't follow Japanese baseball, but there is certainly a boatload of data/info on Suzuki's overall performance and the reports are that he'll make a plus-competence impact in either CF or RF. Japanese players crossing the water almost always field their positions at above average levels. Whether they have plus speed or not, they run the bases well too.  The problem is that the Sox have a critical need for a quality LH bat. Critical if they're shooting for a WS appearance that is. If the Sox were any better at hitting RH pitching, Suzuki would likely be a no-brainer of an option. But that's just not the case.

Couple things:

1. Sox were 6th in WRC+ vs RHP last season. So no, its not a "critical" need.

2. This org DOES have a critical need for an actual MLB-Caliber RFer, because there hasn't been one in this roster, like AT ALL. Whether or not its Suzuki can be debated.

3. There's this thing called "the trade deadline." Assuming those geniuses in the FO don't stupidly grab another piece they don't need, a LHH bat could be gotten then.

And there's a bonus to #3: If you grab Suzuki and he's MLB caliber, and fits the budget, a hypothetical LHH bat @ the TDL could be position-agnostic.

That is, you could get ANY LHH bat at ANY position and plug him into the lineup. Much easier proposition, IMO.

 

By contrast looking for a LHH RFer gives you a list of 1 player that's available.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[caulfield12]

46 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

It’s unrealistic to be in on every free agent that’s out there. Signing Suzuki and having him start in the big leagues right away is a big risk especially if he’s unproven and may not be the best fit for the team. Might as well start Colas or Cespedes in the big leagues right away. 

Ummm...not the same thing, at all.  Especially with how long Colas has been out of action and how generally disappointing Cespedes has been...it would be better to play Mazara or even Adolfo in RF.

[Jerksticks]

I figured it out.  We’re signing Freeman

[Chicago White Sox]

37 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

BABIP:
2019: .279
2020: .320
2021Cubs: .203 (career low)
2021Sox: .295

HR/FB:
2019: 36% (legitimately unlucky)
2020: 16.7 %
2021Cubs: 3.8 % (career low)
2021Sox: 19.5% (a little unlucky but less out of line with his career).

Arguably the luckiest reliever in baseball is what other teams are looking at when determining his performance next year.

Cool…so his shit performance with us was simply regression to the mean.  I guess that means his market value is 4/$50M+ based on what relievers who put up similar numbers got in free agency.  Thanks for confirming!

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Cool…so his shit performance with us was simply regression to the mean.  I guess that means his market value is 4/$50M+ based on what relievers who put up similar numbers got in free agency.  Thanks for confirming!

wut? 

[Chicago White Sox]

35 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

The need for an LHH is overblown. If Suzuki checks all the checkboxes - provide solid defense, good bat, offers youth and upside, and most importantly fits within our budget, are you willing to pass on him for just for handedness? We have Moncada and Grandal who are switch hitters to hit in the top half of the lineup. We could have brought back Hernandez to hit in the bottom 3rd but we brought in a RHH 2B instead.

How have we fared against good RHPs?  Always fun the garbage righted in the AL Central, but it’s a whole another animal when you face quality RHP in the playoffs.  The need is not overblown at all.

[KBX]

7 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I figured it out.  We’re signing Freeman

La Russa pointed a bony finger at Freddie Freeman and said: "right field."