Offseason Part 2 - Lets the Rumors & Action Begin

[The Beast]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

This board is becoming a tough read. 

No, RH and his half assed lawyer answers and JR’s bad money being spent is a tough read. This board is bearable if you read over the tweets and don’t follow the same people who b**** at each other. Scroll for the good shit and ignore the rest.

1 hour ago, maxjusttyped said:

On an extremely unrelated note, I found it amusing that old friends Jake Lamb and Mike Wright signed Minor League deals with the Dodgers today.

Good, two guys that never should have been on the roster last year. Just like Goodwin and Mercedes.

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Harold also told us to "just wait...." two days ago as if a move was about to be announced. 

Well, we’re waiting…

Edited March 15, 2022 by The Beast

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Kimbrel’s 2H 2017’s FIP was 2.17.  When did he start declining exactly?

I'm not going to go into this again, as I've already gone through this during the trade and I actually think people are being a little too hard on kimbrel right now (crazy), but there were underlying concerns about his stuff declining, command beginning to waver and fastball losing effectiveness.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

The other thing is that they have basically 2 options with the 1B/DH logjam:

1. Trade Abreu to save some cash, hope that two of Vaughn/Sheets/Burger work out

2. Keep Abreu, and trade Vaughn/Sheets/Burger for a RF upgrade

Instead of doing either, they're trying to shove Vaughn and Sheets into RF.  

I don't think they are trying to shove Vaughn and Sheets into RF. Despite me voting no on both questions in the poll. Neither Vaughn nor Sheets in RF is any kind of solution. Tons of DH AB between them sure. I am hoping a couple of trades are coming and the 1st one needs to be Kimbrel. If that domino falls there's more hope for another one.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, DirtySox said:

It's just a subset of people that seem to enjoy wallowing in misery. It's certainly turning me off from continuing to read the thread.

No it's the majority of people disappointed with the process so far and expressing it. Nothing wrong with that. Just look at the poll if you don't believe me.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No it's the majority of people disappointed with the process so far and expressing it. Nothing wrong with that. Just look at the poll if you don't believe me.

It's hard to imagine being "happy" at this point.

If you include Graveman, it's not terrible/abysmal, I suppose one could argue.  If Kelly was 100% healthy and Kopech had been ramped up along with Crochet in 2021 a bit more, there would be more reasons for optimism.  Or if the farm system wasn't ranked 30th in all of MLB.

But could anyone let's say have thrown out Josh Harrison as a replacement for Madrigal and not been laughed off the board?

It's still like we are still flailing around with Eaton and Mazara out there as "viable" plans.

Whatever's replacing Rodon/Madrigal...along with Kimbrel's soaking up any of the previously unprecedented financial flexibility that quickly disappeared, all credible/valid reasons for concern.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

I will come with the positive angle...at least we havent been linked to a whale, only to find out it was a bunch of BS. I would rather go home with no foreplay, then go home with a large blue sac.

Not exactly a cuddler are you? All or nothing baby !

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

Well actually Nightengale did say that Castellanos could fall in our lap but he just didn’t tweet it but right after that article came out linking us to the top outfielders. Also, I may be wrong about this but didn’t Heyman mentioned once before the lockout that Conforto was a good fit for us?

 

But those are just opinions not based on anything substantive. Not Cishek gets blasted for doing the same thing.

[Two-Gun Pete]

26 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

1. 2021 Playoff vs Houston
vs LH - AB-24, Slash - .500/.538/.583

vs RH - AB-117, Slash - .248/.326/.333
Before you go into 'small data sets'

2. What makes you think they're going to do any better this year?

3. Conforto obviously has leverage in a Sox deal, in itself not a good position for the team to be in. Further, considering (his) last years performance is he really the guy that should be the highest paid player on the team?

4. My point being that posters here have suddenly determined that handedness is of little/no concern

5. This is all academic, the Sox aren't signing Suzuki and the Conforto grab looks more elusive all the time.

1. Nah, I won't go "small data sets," I'll go SSS.

Its ALWAYS sound policy to determine your offseason plans, based on a single series, amirite?

2. I never assume that they'll do anything right, and I always want everyone fired from the FO as part of my idealized vision of an offseason. But I also hold out hope that one day those numbskulls will figure shit out at the TDL. Call me blindly optimistic, I guess...

3. Conforto's drop in performance, his age, and his injury history are reasons why I dont prefer him as the RF target. True hes got a LH bat, but we've seen guys fail to adjust from the NL to the AL. All of these factors taken together give me reason to pause WRT Conforto.

I wouldn mind him being here, but I'd also prefer that this FO do something different for a change.

4. I haven't "suddenly" determined that handedness is of little concern. I look at the numbers, and the numbers tell us that in an injury-riddled season, the SOX finished 6th in WRC+ V RHP. So, IOW, its a "need," but not a "CRITICAL need" to have more LH hitters. There's a dire need for an MLB-caliber RFer, since there isn't one in the roster now.

5. Oh, I've accepted that it won't be Conforto, nor Schwarber, nor Suzuki. It'll probably be either Joc Pederson or Jorge Soler, based on this FO's behavior.

But a rational actor in the FO (I know, I know) would be able to look at the roster, and look at the numbers, and choose better.

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Not exactly a cuddler are you? All or nothing baby !

Sacks packed full of Seamen/Mariners.   Where did the psoter go with that in their signature line?

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by CWSpalehoseCWS

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

1. Nah, I won't go "small data sets," I'll go SSS.

Its ALWAYS sound policy to determine your offseason plans, based on a single series, amirite?

2. I never assume that they'll do anything right, and I always want everyone fired from the FO as part of my idealized vision of an offseason. But I also hold out hope that one day those numbskulls will figure shit out at the TDL. Call me blindly optimistic, I guess...

3. Conforto's drop in performance, his age, and his injury history are reasons why I dont prefer him as the RF target. True hes got a LH bat, but we've seen guys fail to adjust from the NL to the AL. All of these factors taken together give me reason to pause WRT Conforto.

I wouldn mind him being here, but I'd also prefer that this FO do something different for a change.

4. I haven't "suddenly" determined that handedness is of little concern. I look at the numbers, and the numbers tell us that in an injury-riddled season, the SOX finished 6th in WRC+ V RHP. So, IOW, its a "need," but not a "CRITICAL need" to have more LH hitters. There's a dire need for an MLB-caliber RFer, since there isn't one in the roster now.

5. Oh, I've accepted that it won't be Conforto, nor Schwarber, nor Suzuki. It'll probably be either Joc Pederson or Jorge Soler, based on this FO's behavior.

But a rational actor in the FO (I know, I know) would be able to look at the roster, and look at the numbers, and choose better.

Eddie Rosario is anything name that keeps getting bandied about.

But with Soler, the defense is pretty much the equivalent of Vaughn/Sheets.   Rosario isn't much better on that front, but is familiar with the AL Central, same with Soler.

Pederson has the ability to at least play average to slightly above average RF and he fits the LH need, so there's that.

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Eddie Rosario is anything name that keeps getting bandied about.

But with Soler, the defense is pretty much the equivalent of Vaughn/Sheets.   Rosario isn't much better on that front, but is familiar with the AL Central, same with Soler.

Pederson has the ability to at least play average to slightly above average RF and he fits the LH need, so there's that.

 

Yeah, Im probably still imparting my preference for cromulent defense when I suggest Pederson. And yeah, Im also probably imparting this board's preference for a LHH as well when I suggest him.

 

So, if I'm (snicker) "thinking" like RH/KW, I want an older player, so I'm paying for past performance. I'm probably not giving 2 shits about handedness. And, I don't give 2 fucks about defense...

...all that taken together means it'll either be Rosario, or Soler, if I'm (snicker) "thinking" like KW/RH.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Sox had 108 wRC+ last season against RHP which is good for 6th in baseball. While going after an LHH RF is ideal it shouldn’t be a deal breaker to the point they aren’t even checking in on him. This just shows a disconnect in scouting in Asian market and lack of trust in Asian import, which is another failure for this organization.

I want Conforto as much as anyone, but I am not hopeful that they get a deal done given the rumored price tag. Suzuki should cost a bit less, but again, it’s disappointing that there is no rumored interest. Our hope to turn is off-season around is solely riding on Conforto.

  I generally agree with you on a lot of things about the offseason. I sure wouldn't complain about Suzuki being added. But I don't think the need for a LH masher is overblown. That 108wRC plus came against some terrible RHP in the division. A team like the Indians with some pretty good RH SP they went 9-9 against the Sox.

Good LHH on the Astro's were Brantley, Alvarez and Tucker. The Braves had Freeman and Albies with 30 or more HR and Rosario got super hot in the early rounds of the playoffs. The 2020 Dodgers had Bellinger, Corey Seager, Muncy and Pederson who contributed massively in the World Series. The 2020 Rays had Kiermaier, Lowe and Wendle all with 3.4, 4.7 and 3.8 bWAR respectively.

The Sox RHH combined for 2 doubles  in the series with the Astros one by Leury and the other by Vaughn PH for SHeets . The only HR's came from Sheets, Leury and Grandal all hitting LH,which isn't exactly Bellinger, Freeman, Seager, Brantley, Alvarez, Tucker, Muncy, Kiermaier Wendle or Lowe,with established pop or high seasonal WAR.

It would be nice if Robert and Eloy could establish some consistent power from the right side instead of consistently being injured. It would also be real nice if Moncada could establish himself as a guy who could at least stay around a .450 SLg percentage instead of the paltry.412 (.431 against RHP) he put up with a late season run the finally got him above .400. His WAR is just fine but it's been driven by fielding and OBP not a slugging bat. Grandal is getting older and also prone to injury . He had 440 PA but only 279AB because that walk rate was crazy high. SO if our 2 best LHH who are actually switch hitters are  our 2 best OBP guys someone else needs to knock them in which is where another established LH power hitter comes into play.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm not going to go into this again, as I've already gone through this during the trade and I actually think people are being a little too hard on kimbrel right now (crazy), but there were underlying concerns about his stuff declining, command beginning to waver and fastball losing effectiveness.

And all that’s fair, but you’ve got people like Jack who are acting like you’ll need to eat $10M of Kimbrel’s contract in order to move him.

[Chicago White Sox]

For the record, if Craig Kimbrel is on the Opening Day roster then Hahn should be fired.  Zero excuse to pick up his option unless you’re certain you can move him.  And there is zero reason to sign Joe Kelly if you plan on keeping Kimbrel around.  I’m hopeful that Hahn is just negotiating through the media with all these comments, but each & every day he is still around that risk grows more concerning.

[Chicago White Sox]

I didn’t see this posted anywhere, but be prepared for lots of Velasquez during his starts!

 

[WBWSF]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For the record, if Craig Kimbrel is on the Opening Day roster then Hahn should be fired.  Zero excuse to pick up his option unless you’re certain you can move him.  And there is zero reason to sign Joe Kelly if you plan on keeping Kimbrel around.  I’m hopeful that Hahn is just negotiating through the media with all these comments, but each & every day he is still around that risk grows more concerning.

I thought that Hahn should of been fired a few years ago. I wrote JR  a number of times hoping for  a interview for the GM job. I have yet to hear from him.By the  way, I would have never traded Madrigal for Kimbrel, never.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I thought that Hahn should of been fired a few years ago. I wrote JR  a number of times hoping for  a interview for the GM job. I have yet to hear from him.By the  way, I would have never traded Madrigal for Kimbrel, never.

What you have done this offseason out of curiosity?

[ChiSox59]

6 hours ago, The Beast said:

No, RH and his half assed lawyer answers and JR’s bad money being spent is a tough read. This board is bearable if you read over the tweets and don’t follow the same people who b**** at each other. Scroll for the good shit and ignore the rest.

Good, two guys that never should have been on the roster last year. Just like Goodwin and Mercedes.

Well, we’re waiting…

Mmmmk

[FriendlyNorthsider]

I'm usually less doom-and-gloom then most here (largely because I like the Sox and don't love them like you all do, but I cant really understand what Hahn is doing. I'm a little late to this discussion so I'm going to go back a bit.

I didn't like the decision to not send Rodon a QO at the time and it obviously looks like a poor decision now. "Worst" case in extending the offer is that you have a guy that finished top 5 in the CY voting back for 1 year 18 million. More likely than not, he would've rejected the offer to try and get a little more security in a pitching-poor free agency. The Sox are not in a position to be turning away Comp picks at the moment. Beyond that, we have no idea how Kopech will hold up getting stretched out without a true off-season. 

If the money was the issue, then why choose to pick up Kimbrel's option. If the plan was to sign Kelly and Graveman then why pick up Kimbrel's contract unless you were sure he had surplus value. I hope I am wrong and that Hahn has a buyer for Kimbrel out there. The problem is that the buyer needs to come before Castellanos, Schwarber, and Conforto go off the board unless JR is willing to sign off on approaching the Tax. I'd be curious if the Sox wouldve been able to pick up Winkler on the cheap if they could pick up his contract.

The Sox are still by far the best team in the ALC and it's not like the rest of the AL has gotten better. I just hope there is a Kimbrel trade / Conforto signing coming to make this make more sense

[maloney.adam]

Pretty soon we’re going to see fire Rick Hahn posts if they don’t sign any major FA’s. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by maloney.adam

[Sarava]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For the record, if Craig Kimbrel is on the Opening Day roster then Hahn should be fired.  Zero excuse to pick up his option unless you’re certain you can move him.  And there is zero reason to sign Joe Kelly if you plan on keeping Kimbrel around.  I’m hopeful that Hahn is just negotiating through the media with all these comments, but each & every day he is still around that risk grows more concerning.

I was a really big fan of Rick Hahn, even despite the Tatis trade. I think he did an amazing job of assembling all this young talent.

That is - up until the Madrigal trade. He's been a dumpster fire from that trade onward. We're so damn close, and they just keep ignoring the glaring holes that can improve this team. It's frustrating. and that said, if they announce Schwarber or Conforto is signed soon, that could change my view somewhat.

But even if they do sign a stud in RF - do they have the starting staff to make a WS run? I suspect no. They don't have that horse to anchor the rotation like most WS champs have.

And for Kimbrel - I think Hahn's quotes that are out there show he is trading Kimbrel. He wouldn't be hinting it if he didn't 100% intend on doing that.

[maloney.adam]

Scott Merkin is always water carrying for the organization. It seems like he’s never in favor of the Sox making moves or adding free agents.

Edited March 15, 2022 by maloney.adam

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For the record, if Craig Kimbrel is on the Opening Day roster then Hahn should be fired.  Zero excuse to pick up his option unless you’re certain you can move him.  And there is zero reason to sign Joe Kelly if you plan on keeping Kimbrel around.  I’m hopeful that Hahn is just negotiating through the media with all these comments, but each & every day he is still around that risk grows more concerning.

What if he’s moved for a trivial return and they have to eat $4 or $5 million? 

[Balta1701]

31 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

Scott Merkin is always water carrying for the organization. It seems like he’s never in favor of the Sox making moves or adding free agents.

That is the one person on earth whose job Is literally carrying water for the organization.